Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Baraden]

Anyone have an idea on what Belluar is talking about in this clip? https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxKDn...h4ECWZIqVm8QEa

If he isn't bullshitting, which he probably is, maybe an insider has suggested some of the writing team are getting purged for the new expansion with the return of metzen

Honestly I hope to god this is true; just give him the reigns - WoD is the worst thing he's done and is there even a debate about the fact it still shits on anything post Legion lorewise

[Raetary]

Hot take #1: Shadowlands has made players hate the "cosmic stuff" in-game. If Shadowlands didn't happen (either yet, or ever) and/or if it were executed well (compared to what we got), I would bet money people wouldn't hate the "cosmic stuff" as much as they currently do.

This isn't a hot take, just stating facts.

Blizzard could've very well re-established their cosmology (again) in a way that could've been very satisfactory.
First Ones included.

A lot of ideas and concept were floating about in Shadowlands that could've led to some some really interesting developments.
But whatever the fuck was happening inside their writing rooms caused them to produce the lore equivalent of a rotten swiss cheese instead.

[Futhark]

Like what?

He's right. In HearthStone the Titan card for Death Knights is the Primus, who was created the same way as the Jailer.

HearthStone has cards for all the Titans, even Argus and one of never heard of before called Amitus

[NoTimeToDie5426]

If he isn't bullshitting, which he probably is, maybe an insider has suggested some of the writing team are getting purged for the new expansion with the return of metzen

Honestly I hope to god this is true; just give him the reigns - WoD is the worst thing he's done and is there even a debate about the fact it still shits on anything post Legion lorewise

I would take WoD over BfA/SL/DF any day of the week. Hopefully what you say is true lol.

[rainhard]

He's right. In HearthStone the Titan card for Death Knights is the Primus, who was created the same way as the Jailer.

HearthStone has cards for all the Titans, even Argus and one of never heard of before called Amitus

Yeah like "V-07-TR-oN Prime" that is definetely a titan or more recently "Yogg-Saron, Unleashed" another definetely titan power leveled card.

[Baraden]

I would take WoD over BfA/SL/DF any day of the week. Hopefully what you say is true lol.

Honestly the only bad part of WoD is the "draenor is free" which only happened because they were rushing to get Legion out and they changed the ending

I think WoD would be far more favorably remembered if it had one more raid with the Iron Horde and actually killing them; and M+ - those two elements and it would've been one of the greatest expansions to date imo

[Houle]

They might have started off intending the Jailer to be stronger than a Titan but changed the lore as they went through the expansion. That would explain why they showed so little of his motivations or power in game at the start: because they didn't pin down what he was supposed to be yet. Early material even showed vastly different designs of his character. I heard Bellular say that some of his contacts even told him that originally the Archon was supposed to be the final boss of the expansion at one point.

Definitely possible, considering Sylvanas motivation and goals were also radically changed at least once - from her inner monologue in Before the Storm to what she said and did in BfA and SL.
Add to that that his design was, according to the devs, not even finalized when the Reveal trailer was dropped, and it becomes even more likely that something big was changed in SL.

No. Current stuff suggests they're Titan level.

And for the third time in a row: examples?

[Raetary]

He's right. In HearthStone the Titan card for Death Knights is the Primus, who was created the same way as the Jailer.

HearthStone has cards for all the Titans, even Argus and one of never heard of before called Amitus

Idk why people keep using hearthstone of all things for lore discussions.

"Titan" is a hearthstone game mechanic.

Yogg is a titan card.
So is Voltron Prime.

The very blog post they introduced the death knight titan in they explicitly pointed out that he isn't actually a titan.
He thematically just fits the bill, so they picked him.

[Baraden]

The obvious answer is even Blizzard doesn't know a fucking thing about Mr. Jay Lore

He WILL be memoryhole'd

[matijwow]

Like what?

The Tear of Elune in Legion was one of the Pillars of Creation, on par with the instruments made by other titans.

The Winter Queen calls Elune her sister. Xal'atath calls Elune an "upstart goddess."

Expedition Report A37J says "Imagine, then, based upon the truths I have told you, that each of these rival forces could--and I stress could, for the fractals may yet reveal another path--be embodied by a host of transcendent beings as powerful as our own Eternal Ones."

The 10.2 book about the tree calls Elune Eonar's "great love" who gives her a branch from G'hanir, implying they're around the same level.

These aren't irreversible and could be retconned through new context (e.g. Winter Queen and Firim are mistaken about what Elune is), but they point in the direction that Elune and the Eternal Ones are Titans of a different flavor.

[Futhark]

Idk why people keep using hearthstone of all things for lore discussions.

"Titan" is a hearthstone game mechanic.

Yogg is a titan card.
So is Voltron Prime.

The very blog post they introduced the death knight titan in they explicitly pointed out that he isn't actually a titan.
He thematically just fits the bill, so they picked him.

Just a reminder, N'Zoth was first revealed in HearthStone, so for the cosmic stuff, it can't be discounted completely.

The rest are good points.

[Baraden]

This isn't a hot take, just stating facts.

Blizzard could've very well re-established their cosmology (again) in a way that could've been very satisfactory.
First Ones included.

A lot of ideas and concept were floating about in Shadowlands that could've led to some some really interesting developments.
But whatever the fuck was happening inside their writing rooms caused them to produce the lore equivalent of a rotten swiss cheese instead.

Does anyone even care or fully understand the lore about the first ones? Imo it completely trivialises everything else in the lore; I genuinely don't care if its canon - to me it doesn't exist as a plot point, along with all of Shadowlands

[Ferlion]

The Tear of Elune in Legion was one of the Pillars of Creation, on par with the instruments made by other titans.

The Winter Queen calls Elune her sister. Xal'atath calls Elune an "upstart goddess."

Expedition Report A37J says "Imagine, then, based upon the truths I have told you, that each of these rival forces could--and I stress could, for the fractals may yet reveal another path--be embodied by a host of transcendent beings as powerful as our own Eternal Ones."

The 10.2 book about the tree calls Elune Eonar's "great love" who gives her a branch from G'hanir, implying they're around the same level.

These aren't irreversible and could be retconned through new context (e.g. Winter Queen and Firim are mistaken about what Elune is), but they point in the direction that Elune and the Eternal Ones are Titans of a different flavor.

Anduin isn't near the strength of a Titan and seriously injured an Eternal One.

[Ferlion]

I think we can all agree that if the next expansion doesn't include housing, it will be a failure.

I don't agree with that. At all.

[Nymrohd]

This isn't a hot take, just stating facts.

Blizzard could've very well re-established their cosmology (again) in a way that could've been very satisfactory.
First Ones included.

A lot of ideas and concept were floating about in Shadowlands that could've led to some some really interesting developments.
But whatever the fuck was happening inside their writing rooms caused them to produce the lore equivalent of a rotten swiss cheese instead.

I mean it's like someone read The Monomyth and tried to replicate it but failed worse than Sylvanas at logic.

[Makabreska]

in that case, you're one of the people dragging the game down.

Excellent take, my man.

[PotHockets]

Anduin isn't near the strength of a Titan and seriously injured an Eternal One.

Anduin was empowered by Zovaal and was basically just a meat puppet for his powers. Plus Anduin got the drop on them.

[Harbour]

To be honest Winter Queen being related to Elune and then Elune treatment in SL (lmao suffer NE shits) soured me on both her (Elune) character and her power level.
None of SL entities felt Titan level. Even Jailor. He felt KilJaeden and Archimonde tier power. Titan keepers level.
And us being able to casually talk to Winter Queen, Primus etc made them look like some buffed mortals, not Titan level chads.

[Selorian]

Honestly the only bad part of WoD is the "draenor is free" which only happened because they were rushing to get Legion out and they changed the ending

One Legion in all universes is the dumbest part of WoD. It means KJ and Magtheridon went and tried to do the exact same plan that had already failed, knowing that it had failed, to invade an Azeroth that was more prepared than it had been before.

Also Metzen has written plenty of other stupid shit before, the community fucking hated him when he was still at Blizzard. Heck, the way people in this thread are talking about cosmic stuff sounds exactly like people losing their shit at spaceship protoss Draenei back in 2005. Never mind how characters like Illidan and Kael'thas were ran through the mud for raid content.

[Baraden]

Anduin isn't near the strength of a Titan and seriously injured an Eternal One.

Power levels in WoW are as inconsistent as a marvel film, trying to use that as an actual metric is just folly

Look at Malfurion; lorewise he could be able to body every Horde leader and most raid bosses without breaking a sweat - in game he's nearly beaten by Sylvanas

Sylvanas is a great example; just look at how powerful WoW has portrayed her - she even was able to beat a fully powered lich king like it was nothing, whereas in the halls of reflection a greatly weakened lich king as Arthas nearly kills her