Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Baraden]

Except that in a raid or dungeon everyone takes damage, everyone heals damage and everyone deals damage. So again, literally none of the roles are actually necessary.

Why do you need DPS if every tank and healer can DPS? Why do you need a healer if every spec in the game has the potential to self heal?

I don't know how you still aren't parsing this, but none of the roles is strictly necessary. They each exist to specialize in a domain of play, healing, holding aggro, or dealing damage. In older versions of the game, there were specs that were split between dealing damage and buffing your allies or making their jobs easier, in recent versions there have not been. Support fills that open slot, a role for buffing allies and debuffing enemies.

You can keep repeating this dumb slippery slope, but it's not gonna become any less of a fallacy. Healers existing hasn't stopped every spec in the game from being able to do healing. Tanks existing hasn't stopped every spec in the game from having defensives, and DPS existing hasn't stopped every heal or tank spec from being able to damage. So why the fuck would a support class magically make various utility spells go away?

Like I said; I don't want to derail a thread with a back on forth on my own opinion - you can disagree all you like, I'm not changing my mind on it either so there's no need to fill other people's screens

As I said before; we will know with Blizzcon if Blizzard agrees with me or not

[Woke it Up]

No? It's just a fun Hearthstone card, nothing more.

Besides, Aman'Thul erasing Void shit from history isn't surprising, especially considering he rules over Time as a concept.

That isn't void that's a life tentacle though?

[NoTimeToDie5426]

Of the three, only Shadowlands is what I'd call a flop.

Mind, I don't mean to say BFA was great or anything story wise. I think it lost a bunch of steam in it the last patch.

But 2/3rds of the expansion? Absolute banger. Azerite had some growing pains but wasn't all that bad, dungeons were some of the best they've ever done. Waycrest? Kings Rest? So fun.

Battle of Dazar'alor? Fantastic raid.

Shadowlands was just.. bad. Blizzard decided to ignore all feedback and make everything difficult to the point of unplayability for the majority of people. A third of the expansions dungeon meta was built around tanks being unable to tank. Hardest raid and tuning to the point it killed lots of interest.

Honestly I wouldn't mind if they retconned SL and DF and kept BfA up until the N'zoth stuff. Just say Zoth mind controlled us and we've been living a dream while he's been messing shit up on Azeroth ezpz

[Reive]

making nelves lose their home once again to save the rest of the lore seems like a good trade

[Merryck]

This has been said a thousand times but once again; Algalon. Right back in Wrath.

It's not that they're bad, but they have an entirely different set of priorities to us mortals.

Reorginating the planet if it was compromised as a very reasonable decision to make. A void-corrupted Azeroth would be fucking disastrous for life in the universe. Of course, their systems were flawed - they didn't account for mortal life to being powerful enough to defend Azeroth. But you could argue Algalon was the failsafe. They gave him enough autonomy to decide to give mortals another chance.

[flan1337]

I don't think that BFA, SL, and DF are "three flops in a row." To each their own, though.

I did not play BFA or SL ,but been subbed to DF from start to end. So far I loved DF only a few issues that there are just too much events going on that are now dead and hard to do with lack of players.

I think the dragon isles is the best looking xpack to date.

[PotHockets]

Reorginating the planet if it was compromised as a very reasonable decision to make. A void-corrupted Azeroth would be fucking disastrous for life in the universe. Of course, their systems were flawed - they didn't account for mortal life to being powerful enough to defend Azeroth. But you could argue Algalon was the failsafe. They gave him enough autonomy to decide to give mortals another chance.

It's only reasonable if they don't view mortals as inherently valid of existence. Hence why they're not on our side and are potential threats. They're not benevolent and really never have been as we've seen time and again Odyn and potentially Tyr are just going mask off about seeing us as ants.

[Shadowferal]

Tone matters. If somebody deliberately or ignorantly misinterprets your words, that's on them, not you.

Interpretation isn't for "you" to decide...or why bother? The assumption is you want a person to hear what you're saying, not tune you out.

[Baraden]

Maybe, but making terrible arguments and then complaining that people point that out will do the same. All of the roles exist solely because Blizzard designed the game that way. They now decided to try a different design. There's nothing inherently wrong with that.



Tone matters. If somebody deliberately or ignorantly misinterprets your words, that's on them, not you.

Not inherently - I just don't agree.

I'll put my argument in as simple terms as I can for conciseness and then I'm not gonna keep replying about it, as I don't want to derail the thread

"Every spec should be a support spec, and by that logic we don't need pure support specs"

If that is truly a "terrible argument" as you claim, well I guess I'm just not smart enough for all you intellectuals

[Ferlion]

making nelves lose their home once again to save the rest of the lore seems like a good trade

I mean, If you'll forgive the intentional snark, ain't nobody want this non-Kalimdor wish.com home anyway except the Horde players who think "but its really for the best because we won't hit you anymore".

[seainma]

I think Keeper Civil War is in the cards for 11.0 but they will definitely have some that side with us. I think Thorim is a safe bet as a friend.

Actually that would be a really cool idea. Tyr sides with the dragons and mortals. Odyn gets pissed and they both begin to gather their forces. Maybe even try to rebuild Ra and Loken?

Also where the hell is Freya? I think she's just deactivated right now right? I feel like she could have shown up for 10.2

[Raetary]

What's going to happen to all the support abilties other roles have if they add these specs?

Nothing.

As those spells tend to be fully accessible to all specs on the class tree.
Just like all 3 spells you gave as an example earlier.
There would be no reason to move them to a support spec when those spells would be already accessible to it anyway.


Not to mention that, like aug, wows support specs would likely be designed around stat and damage buffs.
Not being walking emergency kits that eat up every utility cd the given class has to offer, like you seem to think.

[NikolaiShade]

But you could argue Algalon was the failsafe. They gave him enough autonomy to decide to give mortals another chance.

Algalon was never meant to be the failsafe just the butcher, in lore we had to beat him to make him change idea. It's so not a failsafe he then starts second guessing all his precedently completed exterminatuses "A million-million lives wasted. Had they all held within them your tenacity? Had they all loved life as you do?"

[Reive]

I mean, If you'll forgive the intentional snark, ain't nobody want this non-Kalimdor wish.com home anyway except the Horde players who think "but its really for the best because we won't hit you anymore".

we sacrificed too much lore to give nelves a new home. kalimdor or not, you're going to accept it and be grateful!

[keelr]

While very true, this isn't a work sponsored outing and isn't comparable. This was nerd mecca to many people around the world. We can't keep blaming COVID and remote work for everything when something flops.

It simply is blizzard has lost the core fanbase, if this doesn't prove it idk what will. There has never been a year where blizzcon didn't sell out... Until this year.

It isn't covid, it isn't the economy, it's blizzards actions that pushed away their fanbase. If it was truly the economy musicians wouldn't be instantly selling out arenas around the world, but yet here we are seeing blizzcon dying before our eyes.

Blizzard and in turn Blizzcon has lost the wind in its sails. Plain and simple.

People can cope. People can make excuses. But eventually people need to just see the cold hard facts.

-Overwatch is failing in real time
-Retail wow has now had not one but 3 massive flops for expansions in a row and the franchise is being carried purely by nostalgia with WoW classic and now wow hardcore.
-StarCraft is completely dead.
-Wc3 reforged was a massive flop due to development hell and blatant misleading lies from blizzard on what it was going to be(I played the demo at Blizzcon when it was announced and pre-ordered it during the announcement while I sat at main stage, we did not receive what was announced period.)
-Hearthstone is a greedy monetization hell hole that's struggling to stay afloat.
-D2 Remaster has significantly more players than Diablo 4 a game that had what 10 years of hype behind it? The true money maker for the Diablo franchise is Diablo immortal a mobile cash grab game carried by the eastern market.
-HoTS is absolutely flatlined.
-We have another bullshit mobile game cash grab leeching off the Warcraft fanbase coming out as "warcraft rumble"

This is the definition of a company failing to hit the mark and keep its core fanbase happy. Blizzcon for well over a decade was THE premier gaming con. It was more than a trade show to many, but now it's fallen really hard.

We as fans need to be vocal and hopefully Blizzard will open their eyes and fix this shit while they still can, or we can remain silent and sit here in continuously shrinking echo chambers of denial and they will eventually go the route of many other giants who no one can remember.

Read this with extra caution. Most of the “facts” are simple opinions.

[Myrrh]

Reorginating the planet if it was compromised as a very reasonable decision to make. A void-corrupted Azeroth would be fucking disastrous for life in the universe. Of course, their systems were flawed - they didn't account for mortal life to being powerful enough to defend Azeroth. But you could argue Algalon was the failsafe. They gave him enough autonomy to decide to give mortals another chance.

Yes. It's cold, hard logic. There's no emotion or care factor for the mortals involved. Algalon's entire character development hinges on him developing an emotional response to the mortals after seeing them fight for their damned lives in a way he's never seen before. Trying to redefine it as 'oh lol the titans programmed him that way' is doing the same thing you're incessantly accusing Danuser of.

Also, you mentioned the Titans zipping about the universe to protect mortal life... Chronicles fairly plainly says they were off looking for world souls. That's why they care about Azeroth. The mortals were incidental.

You've got your headcanon, I get it, we all do. But calm your farm on the criticisms and larping based on that headcanon.

[Catastrophy349]

If we get Avaloren as the "new continent" in 11.0, what type of zones would you like to see/capital city?

If we get some sort of Underground "new continent" in 11.0, what type of zones would you like to see/capital city (perhaps this would be Khaz Algar)?

If we get some sort of "revamp" for the "current zones" in 11.0, what type of "revamp" would you like to see/capital city (cities- For example, Stormwind, Orgrimmar, Gilneas/Lordaeron return, etc.)?

[Raetary]

Don't forget that Archaedas is still stuck deactivated in the old Uldaman wing.

Maybe Tyr could finally wake he poor guy up.

[Houle]

Sure. But on the other hand, I'm pretty sure people back in 2016 said something along the lines of "there's no way Blizzard would reveal an Old God through Hearthstone" in a dismissive tone, only to be proven wrong a year later.

Now thats reaching.

Chances are its nothing but Hearthstone doing its own thing with no real connection to WoWs lore, like 99% of all Hearthstone stuff. The only things that were ever taken from Hearthstone were a few character designs, and theyve done that from other wow-related media as well (Warcraft movie for example).

[Woke it Up]

You might even say it's the tentacle of a 5th Old God, who rules over Life and Death. (Watch closely, top right corner.)

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ronicle/179762

I'd sorta prefer this to more classical old god stuff.

I think it'll be named Dangeth'Asparageth