Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Izalla]

Not sure, there's various bugs with the system still so good chance it was one of those. There's a particularly nasty bug where the server forgets to tell the client it got teleported so you get stuck in place and the client just breaks very badly and spells disappear when you hover over them. Considering how weird that one makes the client behave, I wouldn't be surprised if not recharging vigor is one of those kind of bugs.

Oh shit I'm glad that's not the bug I encountered hahaha

[Azalar]

Is there any reason people are suggesting Sholazar besides jumping from "it could be Un'Goro and Sholazar is similar to Un'Goro so Sholazar is just as likely"? Because the only reason Un'Goro was suggested was because there is actually a corrupted World Tree there in the Nightmare that doesn't exist in our reality. I don't see how Sholazar relates to or matters for that theory at all.

The coincidences point too hard towards Un'goro to even consider Elun'ahir to have been planted in Sholazar. Even more so when Vordrassil was already in Grizzly Hills.

[Sondrelk]

The coincidences point too hard towards Un'goro to even consider Elun'ahir to have been planted in Sholazar. Even more so when Vordrassil was already in Grizzly Hills.

What coincidences? That it's a crater?

Scholazar is also a crater, has rivers feeding into the middle, and is overseen by Freya as commanded by Eonar.

If anything Un'goro is the one that is a reach.

[Woggmer]

Dunno, time traveling orcs sounds like a stupid dumb idea to me if I am being honest. Didn't like the plot of it at all.

The early concept of WoD would've probably got us closer to Shadowlands than anything else.

The first concept was having Garrosh steal some artifact and ends up in Outland, where he uses his said artifact to bring back the dead warchiefs of the Old Horde as part of some undead army.

They went the Draenor route because it is something we've never seen before as to what Draenor (could've) looked like and have further exploration despite being on a separate timeline from our own.

So it was either Time Traveling Orcs or Angry Orc Spirits... and possibly having Garrosh slowly take Sylvanas's spot. (This is why in the War Crimes novel, when he talks with Anduin, he saw himself as another Arthas.)

[PotHockets]

It's implied the Alliance and Horde teamed up and fought a war while we were in Shadowlands. There are a Horde and Alliance commander (same ones from the new opening zone) who mention fighting together in the Scourge war or something along those lines. You can talk to them/do the quest that mentions it in Waking Shores.

Is that not just referring to the fight against Arthas the first time around? If they just said fuck it and resolved that off screen though that would be one of the bigger "holy shit what is wrong with you" story moments through out all of WoW to me.

[Ersula]

Is there any reason people are suggesting Sholazar besides jumping from "it could be Un'Goro and Sholazar is similar to Un'Goro so Sholazar is just as likely"? Because the only reason Un'Goro was suggested was because there is actually a corrupted World Tree there in the Nightmare that doesn't exist in our reality. I don't see how Sholazar relates to or matters for that theory at all.

Elun'ahir is undoubtedly somewhere we haven't been yet. And contextually it was the first world tree on Azeroth. People are saying Sholazar & Ungoro simply because they're lush with flora, but that's not how world trees work; an area doesn't need a world tree to have dense natural plantlife, just look at Draenor.

[Azalar]

What coincidences? That it's a crater?

Scholazar is also a crater, has rivers feeding into the middle, and is overseen by Freya as commanded by Eonar.

If anything Un'goro is the one that is a reach.

Welp, you have a series of arguments in favor of Un'goro being Elun'ahir:

- You have a quite big titan portal that connects Sholazar to Un'goro.
- Il'gynoth is inside a withered world tree in the Emerald Nightmare, which is in Un'goro.
- Freya wouldn't want to plant the rogue seed near Ulduar, she'd want to plant it far from the other watchers.
- When Aman'thul found about Elun'ahir, and rooted it out, it likely caused the eruption of the volcano in Un'goro.
- This story written by Prophet Skeram that can be found ingame:

The war continued but the will of the great leader was sapped. The whole of Silithus was soon engulfed by the Silithid and their Qiraji hosts. The Night Elf army was pushed back through Un'Goro, to the borders of the Tanaris desert. Something in Un'Goro prevented the Qiraji from being able to take the land. I do not quite understand this word but I believe it to mean 'God Lands.' It is stated that they could not 'take the God Lands.' This coincides with theories of Un'Goro being the home of the Titans when they inhabited Kalimdor. Perhaps Aman'thul himself watched over 'The God Lands.'

[seainma]

Elun'ahir is undoubtedly somewhere we haven't been yet. And contextually it was the first world tree on Azeroth. People are saying Sholazar & Ungoro simply because they're lush with flora, but that's not how world trees work; an area doesn't need a world tree to have dense natural plantlife, just look at Draenor.

I feel like Un'goro is pretty likely.. Correct me if I'm wrong but in the Emerald Nightmare there was a nightmare world tree with Il'gynoth in Ungoro crater right?

[Ferlion]

Is that not just referring to the fight against Arthas the first time around? If they just said fuck it and resolved that off screen though that would be one of the bigger "holy shit what is wrong with you" story moments through out all of WoW to me.

If you listen to the on approach events, it rules that out.

*Henry Garrick says: Do you really think we can trust them, mother?
Captain Garrick says: I fought alongside many honorable Horde in the scourge invasions, Warlord Grimaxe included.*

[Izalla]

Elun'ahir is undoubtedly somewhere we haven't been yet. And contextually it was the first world tree on Azeroth. People are saying Sholazar & Ungoro simply because they're lush with flora, but that's not how world trees work; an area doesn't need a world tree to have dense natural plantlife, just look at Draenor.

Un'Goro was brought up because of the Nightmare version with the world tree. It had nothing to do with being lush, and the crater part was an afterthought. Sholazar was only suggested after that and no one mentioned it being lush as the reason for that area either.

[Ersula]

I feel like Un'goro is pretty likely.. Correct me if I'm wrong but in the Emerald Nightmare there was a nightmare world tree with Il'gynoth in Ungoro crater right?

Il'gynoth is growing in a tree but there's nothing that indicates that's a world tree. For one it's way too small. That his body was somehow formed from a corrupted world tree is just an out-of-pocket headcanon. Un'goro has a miniature volcano in the middle of it: You wouldn't want to plant a world tree there.

Welp, you have a series of arguments in favor of Un'goro being Elun'ahir:

- You have a quite big titan portal that connects Sholazar to Un'goro.
- Il'gynoth is inside a withered world tree in the Emerald Nightmare, which is in Un'goro.
- Freya wouldn't want to plant the rogue seed near Ulduar, she'd want to plant it far from the other watchers.
- When Aman'thul found about Elun'ahir, and rooted it out, it likely caused the eruption of the volcano in Un'goro.

- Because Sholazar, Vale of Eternal Blossoms & Un'goro were sites Freya experimented with the magic of the Well of Eternity
- There's no lore calling it a world tree. As far as we know it's just a tree.
- Uldum is right next to Un'goro and If I'm not mistaken, its even older than Ulduar
- That's not how volcanos work

[Darkarath]

It excites me to see some people arguing about Northrend for 11.0. As I stated before, I think that it would make a lot of sense and it ties well with Titans, Keepers, Dragons, Decay (Scourge), Void (Azjol-Nerub)...

It would be absolutely awesome if they revamp Northrend for 11.0 and Kalimdor and The Eastern Kingdoms for 12.0.

[Wangming]

Dunno man a lot of people had issues with the concept, myself included. And it ultimately ended up being cheap nostalgia bait and milking of old popular characters.

For me the good part in WoD was all the system updates. For all the shit it screw up, it also came with a lot of updates that were needed for the longevity of the game. As well as the model update for the races

[PotHockets]

If you listen to the on approach events, it rules that out.

Thanks, I hate it.

I really dont like how they've handled the time skip at all. I'm glad they at least tried but it feels so off to me but maybe that's just me.

[pacotaco]

It would be absolutely unhinged if they did an expansion pre-timeskip covering what happened in Northrend during the events of Shadowlands and beyond.

That makes no sense. Why skip that time just to go back right away?

They could use that time period to do stand-alone games like Riot does.

[Raetary]

Ok so the blizzcon set looks like at the very least we get some earth stuff

The one platform looked waaaaaayyyyyyy too SL for me but could be a titan style Decoration as well

It's just the Corridor of time decor, themed after the temporal conflux.

[Woggmer]

Welp, you have a series of arguments in favor of Un'goro being Elun'ahir:

- You have a quite big titan portal that connects Sholazar to Un'goro.
- Il'gynoth is inside a withered world tree in the Emerald Nightmare, which is in Un'goro.
- Freya wouldn't want to plant the rogue seed near Ulduar, she'd want to plant it far from the other watchers.
- When Aman'thul found about Elun'ahir, and rooted it out, it likely caused the eruption of the volcano in Un'goro.
- This story written by Prophet Skeram that can be found ingame:

The war continued but the will of the great leader was sapped. The whole of Silithus was soon engulfed by the Silithid and their Qiraji hosts. The Night Elf army was pushed back through Un'Goro, to the borders of the Tanaris desert. Something in Un'Goro prevented the Qiraji from being able to take the land. I do not quite understand this word but I believe it to mean 'God Lands.' It is stated that they could not 'take the God Lands.' This coincides with theories of Un'Goro being the home of the Titans when they inhabited Kalimdor. Perhaps Aman'thul himself watched over 'The God Lands.'

You also have to consider that the Primalists attacked Un'goro as well, unlike other pre-launch event where an external force attacked a city or towns, in DF they focused primarily on areas where there are no people or that many civilizations around.

[ro9ue]

How do you want Blizzard to handle the potential reveal of Elune?
<snip>
While part of me wants to figure her out, simply because she's still such a puzzle while many of the other cosmic forces have been laid bare, another part also wants her to remain a mystery. Perhaps at least knowing her true cosmic affiliation would be enough, for example if she's of Life or Light, and whether she is the literal moon or not.

Obviously Elune is related to the moon, probably imprisoned in it, but going deeper my opinion is that she is the most prominent of many who are combining cosmic powers into something greater than the sum of its parts. I look at all existing cosmic forces as narrow minded extremists, Void = Old Gods, Arcane = Titans, Fel = Legion, etc, In DF, they introduced "Cosmic" damage which is Arcane, Holy (Light), Nature (Life), Shadow (Void). And I don't think that's a coincidence that Elune would probably be exactly that.

Elune is associated with cosmic spells, moonkin, Arcane, Life, Silver moonlight, Priestesses of the Moon, Night Warrior and shadow/eclipse stuff.

I wouldn't bring this up if I didn't think there was a decent overlap of fanbases, but for those familiar with Magic the Gathering - the game started out with 5 mana types, all of which had their own flavors and vibes. If you think about the current cosmic forces as mana colors, you definitely get a specific philosophy from each: Fel, Void, Shadow, Death, Life, Light.

Eventually Magic explored gold cards, which is a combination of any or all of the mana colors. I think this is a good direction for WoW to go in for more nuanced villains. My guess is Elune is looking to basically combine all of the cosmic forces into 1, and maybe she thought Azeroth's world soul could be the first entity that embodied all 6. But the singular cosmic forces united against her since they all want her off the table, and would rather war it out to win Azeroth over just for themselves.

The cosmological chart is kind of a limiting hierarchy of villain philosophies. Example: Ok we beat old gods, whats above them? Void lords. Ok we beat void lords? What's above them? Instead you can simply look at cosmic forces as mana types, and each individual entity we encounter could use one or more of these and have their own individual intent and philosophy they want to exert on the universe.

[Well Done Steak]

It's just the Corridor of time decor, themed after the temporal conflux.

Yrel coming back via bronze magic for light v void confirmed??

[Raetary]

Obviously Elune is related to the moon, probably imprisoned in it

Elune has influence across the universe, and she is direct control over Azeroths moons.

Her being imprisoned makes no sense.