Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[GabrielKnight]

It's exactly that. I can't say this loud enough: fantasy universes should remain as mysterious as they can. Once you lose the mystery, you lose most of your audience's interest, the only exception to that being if the story has compelling well-written characters (which let's be honest, has never been WoW's forte).

I remember back in Vanilla up to WotlK, the titans seemed so mysterious to me as a lore-driven player, now I'm like "oh yeah, another Titan facility" and the spark is gone. More often than not, not knowing is better than knowing when it comes to cosmic powers in fantasy setups.

So true. I remember all the speculation about zones like Tanaris, for example: the Titan facility that you had to go after Uldaman, Caverns of Time, and even the random friendly naga that was in a cave and sometimes went to see the ocean, but had no interaction whatsoever. It's sad that the more interesting stuff was created because the developers had unfinished business. I mean, how much theory came up from the legend of the Ashbringer alone? From random texts to characters mentioning it. I can't even imagine how many people spent hours fishing expecting to catch it. Now every Paladin in the planet has one, how lame is that?

Nowadays all the speculation has too be so complicated, with huge texts trying to unravel the whole thing because it has like a million layers of super cosmic powers, and plans inside more complicated plans, when people serve a mega master that actually serves another master even more threatening. And let's not even get into the afterlife territory...

To me, it's all insanely boring and confusing to read, and it honestly feels like a tryhard Sci-fi Channel movie.

[Shadowferal]

You want the Cosmology of WoW to be stagnated?

Too late for that. I see the whole of the Chronicles as crap, and the game as stagnant as a direct result.

[huth]

But even still, none of this means we're not fucking legends compared to anyone else...

Ffs, we're prolly far more plot armor filled than Me'dan, actually, we're not probably that...

WE ARE THAT!!! All of this just means we got even more ways of being greater badasses lmaooo

People seem to have a really hard time coping with the fact that our characters are actually involved in the story and not just nameless viewports.

[Alanar]

She was bitchy and smug in BfA because she thought she could outsmart the Old Gods, she was full of copium.

The ending of the Eternal Palace raid was a huge reality check for her. She was reminded that she's just an insignificant mortal who stands no chance against even the weakest Old God.

She was imprisoned and tortured in Ny'alotha and was at the complete mercy of N'Zoth; so if she's smart, she'll be more humble from now on when dealing with actual Gods.

She actually had a plan all along, she didnt care for the old god as shown in warbringer. She made herself crystal clear there and that turn of event shook most of the old god fans and started to hate. Nzoth was nothing and without her, he would have still been nothing.

She is next to denathrius one of the better villains.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

She actually had a plan all along, she didnt care for the old god as shown in warbringer. She made herself crystal clear there and that turn of event shook most of the old god fans and started to hate. Nzoth was nothing and without her, he would have still been nothing.

I... definitely didn't read it that way. Insofar as I understood, N'Zoth appealed to her ego and placated her by adding that "sure, you'll be my slave, but you'll also be a queen!", conveniently failing to add that a queen is still very much a piece on the board.

[Nymrohd]

I... definitely didn't read it that way. Insofar as I understood, N'Zoth appealed to her ego and placated her by adding that "sure, you'll be my slave, but you'll also be a queen!", conveniently failing to add that a queen is still very much a piece on the board.

And yet it was clear that she plotted against him from the start.

[huth]

I... definitely didn't read it that way. Insofar as I understood, N'Zoth appealed to her ego and placated her by adding that "sure, you'll be my slave, but you'll also be a queen!", conveniently failing to add that a queen is still very much a piece on the board.

Well, she wasn't exactly in a situation to be making many demands or explore other options. She also made it clear that she was very much planning to backstab him as soon as she was physically able.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

And yet it was clear that she plotted against him from the start.

Well, she wasn't exactly in a situation to be making many demands or explore other options. She also made it clear that she was very much planning to backstab him as soon as she was physically able.

True, but it wasn't exactly like N'Zoth wasn't aware of that. As far as I understood, N'Zoth was wholly aware that she was untrustworthy and intended to dispose of her as soon as she outlived her usefulness, going off how the next time we see Azshara she's in Ny'Alotha as a prisoner. Then, I suppose I might be drawing too close to being disingenuous—I may be coping in a misguided effort to minimize obnoxious character shilling on Blizzard's part—as annoyed as I was with the character shilling N'Zoth received in a failed effort to hype him up, it would be just as frustrating if Azshara became subject to "look at our SUPR KEWL CHARACTER!!! She's SUPER SMART and PLANNED EVERYTHING and OUTSMARTED TEH OLD GOD!!!!"

This is doubly relevant, as I feel like Azshara is one of the more tolerable characters around, and narrative character shilling rapidly diminishes any appreciation I have for a character. It would also be far more disastrous for her than N'Zoth, given how N'Zoth didn't really have a personality to worry about losing out on.

[Fahrad Wagner]

True, but it wasn't exactly like N'Zoth wasn't aware of that. As far as I understood, N'Zoth was wholly aware that she was untrustworthy and intended to dispose of her as soon as she outlived her usefulness, going off how the next time we see Azshara she's in Ny'Alotha as a prisoner. Then, I suppose I might be drawing too close to being disingenuous—I may be coping in a misguided effort to minimize obnoxious character shilling on Blizzard's part—as annoyed as I was with the character shilling N'Zoth received in a failed effort to hype him up, it would be just as frustrating if Azshara became subject to "look at our SUPR KEWL CHARACTER!!! She's SUPER SMART and PLANNED EVERYTHING and OUTSMARTED TEH OLD GOD!!!!"

This is doubly relevant, as I feel like Azshara is one of the more tolerable characters around, and narrative character shilling rapidly diminishes any appreciation I have for a character. It would also be far more disastrous for her than N'Zoth, given how N'Zoth didn't really have a personality to worry about losing out on.

I agree N'Zoth likely knew Azshara was looking to double-cross him (it? them? what do you use for and Old God?!). It takes one to know one after all... however I wouldn't put it past any of them to have actual, B, C, D and E plans involving f*cking up Azeroth which could still come to fruition.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I agree N'Zoth likely knew Azshara was looking to double-cross them. It takes one to know one after all... however I wouldn't put it past any of them to have actual, B, C, D and E plans involving f*cking up Azeroth which could still come to fruition.

Oh, that I know for sure. Mind you, Azshara's still a plenty intelligent and dangerous person, and she probably has a plan in mind. My theory is that she'll either supplant Y'Shaarj as the fourth Old God (given that Y'Shaarj seems to be "more" dead than the others) by exploiting her erstwhile connection to the Well of Eternity (I feel this way because she really is effectively an Old God, anyway—a powerful, tentacled entity surrounded by throngs of frothing, slavishly-devoted followers), or that she'll try to use some kind of hitherto-unknown Titan facility's function to replace Azeroth with herself.

Also, as for N'Zoth's pronouns, "it" has been used consistently for all the Old Gods except for Yogg-Saron.

[Fahrad Wagner]

Oh, that I know for sure. Mind you, Azshara's still a plenty intelligent and dangerous person, and she probably has a plan in mind. My theory is that she'll either supplant Y'Shaarj as the fourth Old God (given that Y'Shaarj seems to be "more" dead than the others) by exploiting her erstwhile connection to the Well of Eternity (I feel this way because she really is effectively an Old God, anyway—a powerful, tentacled entity surrounded by throngs of frothing, slavishly-devoted followers), or that she'll try to use some kind of hitherto-unknown Titan facility's function to replace Azeroth with herself.

The last one has always been one of my favourite theories (and its so on-brand for that character)

[AOL Instant Messenger]

The last one has always been one of my favourite theories (and its so on-brand for that character)

I actually originally came up with an idea along those lines about nine months or so before Shadowlands was revealed, but it was actually Gorak Tul I imagined doing it—he'd replace Xavius as Nightmare Lord and try (followed by, obviously enough, failing) to use a reflection of Ulduar's secret facilities to conduct an emergency transplantation mechanic that would replace Azeroth's World-Soul with a Titan Construct in the case that corruption exceeded a certain threshold.

Obviously, Azshara's quite a bit more likely to do this than Gorak Tul of all people—her narcissism lends her well to it.

[Wangming]

Only basic bitches use a blood elf body. Just saying.

Now I have it stuck in my head, imagine if Xal'atath got a "sexy" version of K'thir that looks like Edna from Futurama.

True, but she had like nothing better on hand. It's not like she can just waltz into the hot female body shop and grab a Yrel doll or something.

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Oh, that I know for sure. Mind you, Azshara's still a plenty intelligent and dangerous person, and she probably has a plan in mind. My theory is that she'll either supplant Y'Shaarj as the fourth Old God (given that Y'Shaarj seems to be "more" dead than the others) by exploiting her erstwhile connection to the Well of Eternity (I feel this way because she really is effectively an Old God, anyway—a powerful, tentacled entity surrounded by throngs of frothing, slavishly-devoted followers), or that she'll try to use some kind of hitherto-unknown Titan facility's function to replace Azeroth with herself.

Also, as for N'Zoth's pronouns, "it" has been used consistently for all the Old Gods except for Yogg-Saron.

Well Azshara is old and is worshipped as a god so she is definitely an old god. Not necessarily an Old God. Replacing Azeroth's World Soul sounds a bit like what Fandaniel did in Endwalker. And also sounds exactly what Azshara would do.

[Nymrohd]

The last one has always been one of my favourite theories (and its so on-brand for that character)

I think Azshara is likely one of the people that has likely delved deep into the cosmology of the universe. She references seeking a true throne of power. She could perhaps achieve that by supplanting Azeroth or maybe she can find a way to supplant the First ones.

And ultimately, is Azshara winning bad? Like yes, she wanted to be worshipped but she also created a very advanced civilization on Azeroth with what seemed to be a high standard of living.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Well Azshara is old and is worshipped as a god so she is definitely an old god. Not necessarily an Old God. Replacing Azeroth's World Soul sounds a bit like what Fandaniel did in Endwalker. And also sounds exactly what Azshara would do.

The Titan theory is certainly more plausible, and that's what I would be more inclined to expect to happen—as for the Old God bit, that was mainly inspired by a bit in A Thousand Years of War where it's suggested Alleria could be capable of something similar. Then again, I wouldn't exactly call the Void a trustworthy source for what is and is not possible.

And ultimately, is Azshara winning bad? Like yes, she wanted to be worshipped but she also created a very advanced civilization on Azeroth with what seemed to be a high standard of living.

I'd say it would be—let's not forget that the highly-advanced civilization she ran was still fundamentally propped up by violent expansionism and a caste system. I'd also suggest that any society that would be inclined to cavort with evil space demons may be fundamentally-flawed.

[Nymrohd]

I'd say it would be—let's not forget that the highly-advanced civilization she ran was still fundamentally propped up by violent expansionism and a caste system. I'd also suggest that any society that would be inclined to cavort with evil space demons may be fundamentally-flawed.

I would love to know how violent it was. We don't really have much knowledge of whether they had wars with the trolls or if they encroached on the Pandaren.

[Varodoc]

I agree N'Zoth likely knew Azshara was looking to double-cross him (it? them? what do you use for and Old God?!). It takes one to know one after all... however I wouldn't put it past any of them to have actual, B, C, D and E plans involving f*cking up Azeroth which could still come to fruition.

It is a fact that N'Zoth knew Azshara plotted behind his back as he tells the player character in his fight:

Treacherous Bargain
N'Zoth the Corruptor yells: Behold my betrayal... and yours.
Queen Azshara yells: We have a bargain, then. I will bring both fleets crashing to the ocean floor, and our champion will deliver the dagger to me.
Sylvanas Windrunner yells: And in turn, you will have the key required to free the Old God from his bonds... and leave him vulnerable.
Queen Azshara yells: You wound me, Warchief. After all, I am as dedicated to my master as you are to your subjects.
Sylvanas Windrunner yells: Indeed. Just be certain that once you have what you need, you dispose of your guests. Let none of the "heroes" escape.
Queen Azshara yells: I admire your ruthlessness, Windrunner. It seems our interests are aligned... at present.
Queen Azshara yells: Treacherous Banshee! Do you think I am blind to the darkness you seek to unleash?
N'Zoth the Corruptor yells: Only I can save this world. Yield... and serve!

Azshara was foolish, how could she possibly think that she could deceive an Old God? Is she stupid? The Old Gods are more ancient than Azshara's entire species. They are biologically smarter than Azshara, of course she's not going to outsmart the Old GOd.

Azshara was arrogant, she revealed her intentions to N'Zoth during their first meeting, when she made it clear that she would not be submissive. That's all N'Zoth needed to understand Azshara would never truly be loyal, and so it was child's play to expose her treachery. Had Azshara been smarter, she would have submitted herself to N'Zoth, to reduce the chances of being exposed. Azshara was short-sighted, a smarter character would have feigned servitude, Azshara never did. First of all, she made it clear to N'Zoth that she wanted to rule his empire. Then, She kept taunting and mocking him with a smug face even in the 8.2 trailer; but by the end of that patch, N'Zoth made her drop her smug really quickly:




People here who think Azshara will be successful are not paying attention. Azshara and Denathrius are funny, but they are destined to lose. Denathrius failed everything, he lost everything.

1) He lost his realm.
2) He lost his body.
3) He was humiliated and mocked.
4) His allies in the Maw did not give a shit about rescuing him and considered him a mere pawn.

Denathrius lost everything, Azshara will lose everything too, if she continues to play with powers she does not understand.

[Revamp Man]

Azshara is just a little mortal, while Xal'atath is an Old God, what could Azshara possibly accomplish against Xal'atath? Xal'atath is more ancient than Azshara's entire species.

Azshara is arrogant and she will meet her end if she tries messing with an Old God again. She already came very close to death when she tried to double-cross N'Zoth.

It's pretty funny to rewatch her Warbringers cutscene. Azshara thought she was sooo clever, but N'Zoth put the little mortal back in her place in BfA and reminded her who's the God and who's the drowning mortal princess.

They already have some sort of connection

Since Xal is missing a body I wonder if she'll try to take over the Naga queen

[Makorus]

The only time N'zoth won is when he stole the "killing blow" from the players.

How sad.

[Varodoc]

They already have some sort of connection

Since Xal is missing a body I wonder if she'll try to take over the Naga queen

Xal'atath already has the best body she could ask for. The body of a Thalassian High elf.

When you look at the facts in the source material, the Elves from Quel'Thalas pretty much represent the peak of mortal evolution in terms of magical capabilities.

Are we sure that Azshara's body would be better than the High Elf's body that Xal'atath currently has?