Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Woggmer]

Y'know, based on the images from the leak.. it seems like the zones (except for the last one) all seem to promote this big open expanse feeling that DF had.

Could it be possible that they're gonna bring in Dragonriding back as a staple for the next expansion? Though instead of with dragons, but just any mount with dynamic flying?

[Izalla]

In the hypothetical situation where this is absolutely real, where did this belief come from that there's confirmed 4 zones in the first place (despite that 4-5 zones at launch was literally stated to be "expected" in the DF reveal stream by an actual dev, lol).

4 shots doesn't even automatically presume 4 zones. This is basic concrete thinking past a 2nd grade level. Flies, bees, dragonflies, and butterflies are insects, ergo all insects must be exclusively flies et al.?

Completely unrelated "leaks" from other sources that have been linked to this one, and the assumption that each picture is from a different zone, and that all the zones in the expac are represented in the pictures. It's a fair conclusion to jump to if you don't think about it for more than 3 seconds, and think everything must make sense according to how you would do something, rather than how someone else might choose to, or what limitations they might have preventing them from doing something "better".

[CrossNgen]

In the hypothetical situation where this is absolutely real, where did this belief come from that there's confirmed 4 zones in the first place (despite that 4-5 zones at launch was literally stated to be "expected" in the DF reveal stream by an actual dev, lol).

4 shots doesn't even automatically presume 4 zones. This is basic concrete thinking past a 2nd grade level. Flies, bees, dragonflies, and butterflies are insects, ergo all insects must be exclusively flies et al.?

Shit, there's the possibility that they aren't even 4 separate zones accounted in the possibility it is real.

I could take pieces of, I dunno, Borean Tundra and make it look like 2 different areas.

Because it's a formula that Blizzard has stuck to for two expansions now.

[Izalla]

Y'know, based on the images from the leak.. it seems like the zones (except for the last one) all seem to promote this big open expanse feeling that DF had.

Could it be possible that they're gonna bring in Dragonriding back as a staple for the next expansion? Though instead of with dragons, but just any mount with dynamic flying?

I think it's an extremely safe bet that dynamic flying is a staple of the game going forward.

[Catastrophy349]

So you honestly believe that every single pic they took from the preview was a close up boring shot? Why would you do that and not go for the wide shots that will make your leak less easy to disprove?

Further, do you honestly believe a new continent in a new expansion is only going to have 4 zones? It's almost like you guys want to believe this is real despite the glaring evidence against it.

Last I checked, Dragonflight had 4 zones (unless you count the Dracthyr starting zone which no one had except Dracthyr until a patch… (10.0.7) not at launch).

Additionally, both the Broken Isles and Shadowlands had 4 zones (5th zone was endgame). Perhaps, the “leak” only shows the 4 leveling zones?

At the end of the day, Teriz, I love WoW. I’ll play it no matter what. Doesn’t matter to me if this is real, fake, 11.0 is underground, or even if the next expansion is 200 light years away from Azeroth. The issue at hand is the fact that I, and others, can see multiple perspectives.

[Dismayxz]

Let's find something new to talk about, while the Void plays with it's squeaky toys.

[Vakir]

No, it was a combination of things; WC3 TFT (which was IMMENSELY popular), the TTRPG books, the appearances in other WC media/merch, and Chen's appearances in WoW in the years preceding MoP. Metzen himself said that Pandaren were among the most requested playable races in WoW.

You said the TTRPG was responsible for our understanding of their culture when prompted about it.

I'm not playing this game with you beyond that. Hopefully you'll starve out eventually.

Because it's a formula that Blizzard has stuck to for two expansions now.

No disagreement there!

My problem is Teriz saying "ugh, you guys think there will be 4 zones?!" based on...4 images, is suspect, but also...yeah, why is it so hard to believe there's 4 zones and some kind of starting/unfinished endgame area like Forbidden Reach.

Even if there's 4 zones, there's no guarantee that the images, if real, are even all 4 of them accounted for.
@Catastrophy349

Loath as I am to say it, Broken Isles had 5 if you ignore the shore. He's still ridiculous, though.

[Dismayxz]

I think it's an extremely safe bet that dynamic flying is a staple of the game going forward.

Kind of has to be, with their focus back on Evergreen stuff and the triggers existing.

[Teriz]

You said the TTRPG was responsible for our understanding of their culture when prompted about it.

I'm not playing this game with you beyond that. Hopefully you'll starve out eventually.

Uh no. I said that we knew more about Pandaria than we currently know of Avaloren because Pandaria was featured in TTRPG books that greatly expanded the concept.

It also helped that Pandaria was around for 8 years before MoP was announced. We've known of Avaloren for about 8 months in comparison.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Uh yeah we did. The TTRPGs that weren't de-canonized until MoP came out had loads of info about Pandaria, Pandaren, and Pandaren Brewmasters. That all came out BEFORE MoP and some of that information was used for the expansion.

For any one actually interested, and willing to suffer through poor formatting, this was all the info we had on Pandria and Pandaren form the TTRPG.

Spoiler: 

Pandaren are much like furbolgs in that
they display bearlike traits while being a humanoid race.
While pandaren are similar in appearance to furbolgs, they
do not possess the feral qualities of the coarse furbolg race.
Indeed, pandaren are signifi cantly calmer and more graceful.
Pandaren are often found in the company of dwarves in the
Eastern Kingdoms. Many have made journeys to Khaz Modan.
While pandaren are neutral in the affairs of Horde and Alliance,
they have aided both sides in matters of great importance.
Whatever their relation to the Alliance, it does not
seem that the pandaren will join the humans, elves and
other Alliance races in their struggle against the Horde.
For the pandaren, the internal politics of the Alliance
are another noisome formality they must endure while
learning all they can of the races that occupy the land.
Appearance: Where the furbolgs are broad shouldered and
muscular, powerful and wild, pandaren are round shouldered,
with a stocky build and blunt, ursine face. All pandaren have short-furred, soft white pelt with black markings around
eyes, ears and nose, as well as dark fur “sleeves” marking their
arms and legs down to the prehensile paws they have for
hands, and their feet. They favor garments of fi nely wrought
silk or cotton, with pandaren ascetics often wearing canvas
cloth robes made from rice fl ax.
The typical pandaren male is between 5 feet and 6
feet in height and weighs between 200 to 300 pounds.
Pandaren females are similar in stature, with slighter,
more feminine builds, being from 160 to 240 pounds.

: Pandaren dwell in the isolated and insular reaches
of Pandaria. This nation remains undiscovered to this day.
Pandaren society has changed over the course of its long
history. Where once the pandaren had a mighty empire,
standing proud beside their kaldorei allies (so scholars
believe), now they are a simple people who want only
peace and a safe home. Yet the world is a dangerous place,
and only through an acceptance of the violence that
comes with life can the pandaren continue to prosper.
Each pandaren belongs to a shao’din, which is their
word for “clan.” Pandaren society is, in many ways,
compartmentalized. At their core, the pandaren treasure
peace and creativity. Most pandaren are poets and
singers, and the craftsmen of their culture are revered.
The dangers of Azeroth, however, necessitated the
evolution of a class of warriors to defend those ideals —
it is these warriors, from the simplest pikeman
to the great shodo-pans, who ensure that
pandaren culture survives.

Pandaren are by all accounts graceful and skilled
warriors. Their wardancers epitomize the pandaren art
of warfare — and for the wardancers, battle is indeed
an art. Their title does not come coincidentally. Their
movements are precise and fl uid; they appear to dance
through a battlefi eld, their blades fl ashing silver, blood
spraying into the air, and bodies toppling as they move.
While wardancers are deadly, they, like all pandaren,
are inherently peaceful. “The greatest hope of the
wardancer,” says the eminent pandaren traveler and
warrior Shinjo Greatpaw, “is to not have to use his skills.”
However, in Azeroth’s current age, the wardancers’
skills are needed more than ever. Wardancers move out
to confront demons, undead and other horrid creatures,
their hearts lightened by the thought that, through
their battles, other creatures will live — perhaps, other
creatures will never know battle.
The iconic pandaren wardancer wears a long, black
tunic with gold buttons and gold trim. He wields a
delicate shaktani sword in one hand, and his other
hand is empty. He balances on the balls of his feet, eyes
watching, and when the time is right, he is a spinning,
leaping weapon of destruction.

The pandaren are an old and refi ned
culture, with many traditions and arts important to their
way of life. Perhaps none infl uence the pandaren so
thoroughly as the art of brewing. Scholars believe that
drink infl uences every aspect of pandaren life, and because
of the craft involved, a tradition of brewing potent fl uids
is a cultural institution for the gentle people of Pandaria.
Pandaren brewmasters travel the world for new and exotic
ingredients and recipes. These affable yet deadly warriors
practice a unique combination of healing arts and martial skill.
With their knowledge of alchemy, potion making and brewery,
pandaren create superb ales and liquors that are welcome at
any adventurer’s table either before or after a battle.
Brewmasters practice a unique fi ghting style. They
combine typical pandaren fi nesse and strength with
the appearance of being drunk, stumbling apparently at
random. When they sway to avoid a blow or swing a
wild fi st, their profi ciency appears accidental Brewmasters in the World: While the path of the
brewmaster might be learned by any race, the pandaren
keep the craft of the brewmaster a closely guarded secret.
Ancient ways and methods of brewing result in a potent
ability to craft traditional pandaren brews. Pandaren
are reluctant to share the secrets of this craft, though a
brewmaster might take the most disciplined and spiritual
of individuals under his wing.
Those who do take the path of the brewmaster are
typically pandaren, and show allegiance only to the ways of
their craft. While brewing is a mystical art, as the pandaren
say “good drink shows no bad faces,” and anyone who seeks
out a brewmaster is likely to fi nd him willing to provide a
draught or two in exchange for coin.

Description: Tales say that spirits and energies are at work in
the cosmos — spirits and energy that defi ne the essence of reality,
and from these vital sources all things are formed. This is one of the
central philosophies of pandaren geomancy, and no one is more
intimate with these energies than the pandaren transcendent.
Seeking to embody the sentient formative powers of the universe
and bottle them within her form, the transcendent is an aesthete,
a warrior, and most of all a mystic.
Few pandaren healers and wise men seek out this path;
even powerful geomancers rarely learn of the necessary
hidden techniques to transform into beings composed of
primal forces. Codifi ed within ancient texts, and layered
within the rituals of pandaren culture, are the keys to
this hidden discipline. Yet only the wisest and most
insightful pandaren discover it.
Pandaren revere transcendents as embodiments of
wisdom: the spirit of the universe made fl esh, residing in the
shell of a pandaren host. These are the pandaren’s ultimate
heroes: Spiritual avatars capable of summoning vast storms
of lighting, smashing mountains with their terrible fi sts, and
breathing winds into existence. Yet the techniques do not
come without sacrifi ce.

Pandaren transcendents are sworn to protect the
pandaren people. Anyone seeking to bring war to the
pandaren would soon fi nd themselves at the mercy of
the transcendents’ wrath, amid a devastating whirl of
blades and magic.
Pandaren Transcendents in the World: The pandaren
who discover this path do so only after years of study
and experience. Although only a handful of pandaren
alive today travel the path of the transcendent, they all
protect their people, and swear no loyalty other than to
serve the pandaren and the spirits of their people.
Pandaren transcendents spend much of their time in
seclusion in the Pandaren empire. Those who venture
beyond its shores are dedicated to rooting out secrets,
defending the nation, and building relations with
those few who would prove to be useful allies. Those
who remain in Pandaria are often secluded hermits
who protect a given section of the empire, defending
it from potential attack by angry elementals, divine
spirits and other threats that most of Azeroth’s people
cannot understand. These transcendents often counsel
geomancers and other pandaren of note, serving to
temper all of the decisions of Pandaria’s rulers with
wisdom and spirituality.

Pandaren aren’t particularly good inventors, but they
know a good thing when they see it. Rather than learn
the intricacies of technology from the ground up, they
prefer to learn about specifi c types of devices, such as
weapons or vehicles. Once they know how to create
those, they focus on that particular subset. They almost
always build known devices, rather than create new
ones, with one glaring exception: brewing equipment. From the fi rst day they discovered the existence of
technology, pandaren tinkers have sought to craft items
capable of producing or improving alcoholic beverages.
While some pandaren claim that scientifi cally created
brews are inferior or somehow corrupted, those who
enjoy such creations say it’s the taste that matters.
While most pandaren brewmaking gear is focused
solely on producing beverages, a few exceptional devices
deserve attention. These include the instant brewmaker,
Hong’s throat-burner, and the alchemist’s stirrer

Hailing from the ancient and mysterious
empire of Pandaria, the mighty pandaren
are agile warriors, wizened scholars, masters
of earth magic, and peerless brewers. Little
is known of their culture or society, though
much is rumored. Historians believe that
the Pandaren empire is just as old as the
kaldorei civilization. They contend that
pandaren and kaldorei traded both goods
and ideas in the years before the War of the
Ancients.
However, as the kaldorei grew
more and more obsessed with arcane
magic, the peaceful pandaren
withdrew and closed their borders.
For ten millennia, the world had
forgotten pandaren. Shortly after
the Third War, though, a few
reappeared — perhaps roused from
their isolation by the Burning
Legion, whose catastrophic coming
shook the world.

Pandaren rely on a well-regimented system of battle
that uses infantry, archers, and cavalry, with elite units
and spellcasters to bolster their forces. Pandaren are
strict adherents to the practice of equipping each soldier
with the best possible equipment and arms. Even the
lowliest foot soldier has a jug of pandaren brew at his
side to aid him in combat, and most units use the more
powerful magic drinks before a battle.
Pandaren are courageous and fearless, and thus their
armies have amazing durability and cohesion. A unit of
infantry serves under a wardancer, with a host of wardancers
serving under a shodo-pan. Each shodo-pan from a shao’din
has a host of warriors and wardancers at his command.
Pandaren infantry are armed with pan-spears, round
bamboo helms, thick lamellar-style armor made from woven
bambus reed, and sometimes bear shields made of the same
material. Using the spears to fi ght in regimented ranks,
the pandaren infantry use a variety of tactics that involve
engulfi ng, fl anking, and leading enemies into a charge.
Pandaren archers often rest just beyond the infantry,
using long supple bambus bows capable of taking the eye
out of an orc at hundreds of yards. Pandaren archers are
equipped with their bows and a variety of arrows with
varying heads (broad, leaf-shaped heads for unarmored
infantry, sharp, piercing heads for heavily armored
opponents, and unusual “U” or “V” shaped arrowheads
for dealing maximum damage at close range); they often
carry short curved swords similar to shaktani warblades.
Pandaren archers are skilled at long-range
marksmanship and sniping, although the size of their
bows prohibits their use from concealment, for they are
almost as tall as a standing pandaren.
Pandaren cavalry is almost entirely composed
of wardancers riding combat-trained horses. The
wardancers wear bambus armor reinforced with metal
chain and buckling. Wielding shaktani warblades, the
wardancers cut down anyone in their path

[Kiivar86]

I do love dynamic flying, despite saying I wouldn't when the idea was first brought up way back, but I do kinda hate how its really just made ground mounts useless (in current content). I mean, granted, getting flying eventually does that too but at least there's a period at launch where they're relevant.

Ah well, expanding it to more mounts will be enough to placate me.

[Catastrophy349]

Folks, we have 7 long days ahead of us! Let’s enjoy the ride!

[Izalla]

Because it's a formula that Blizzard has stuck to for two expansions now.

Amount of zones, yes. Screenshots with zero context that would have been taken by someone other than Blizz devs presenting them to us in a way that accurately reflects what they want us to see, no. There are no names at the bottom of each picture to prove they are all from different zones, rather than specific areas of only two or three zones. We assume they are different zones because they all look different and were obviously chosen by the leaker to show us examples of four zones. But we can't know that, because we aren't seeing the in context presentation Blizzard would have put together to show us this. If real, we don't know where the images came from, or why the leaker used those images. They didn't even make their post saying "here are the new zones", they ridiculously framed it as a question as if they happened to stumble across the images somewhere and wanted the internet's thoughts on whether or not they are 11.0 (as opposed to... what? 12.0? Or just fake?)

[Dismayxz]

In the hypothetical situation where this is absolutely real, where did this belief come from that there's confirmed 4 zones in the first place (despite that 4-5 zones at launch was literally stated to be "expected" in the DF reveal stream by an actual dev, lol).

4 shots doesn't even automatically presume 4 zones. This is basic concrete thinking past a 2nd grade level. Flies, bees, dragonflies, and butterflies are insects, ergo all insects must be exclusively flies et al.?

Shit, there's the possibility that they aren't even 4 separate zones accounted in the possibility it is real.

I could take pieces of, I dunno, Borean Tundra and make it look like 2 different areas.

Frankly, can't see it on the first 2, but the second 2 Zones, the Desert-y type and the Jungle, I could actually see those two being two sub-zones of the same larger zone. On one side you have the barren wasteland and the Harpies and their Aggo'ra tribes/factions and then the other warring Aggo'ra factions are in the jungle, where there's more old titan stuff around, you know. And that's more or less the catalyst for their wars, some of the clans are stuck in the desert, while others have the titan mcguffin of the Zone in their jungle, where everything is great.

[KayRule]

Outside of the mobs, the fact that nearly every world asset is re-used is highly suspicious, especially since they use the shots in the trailers of the lands to show off the new environs we're about to explore, so them literally just being existing stuff is incredibly strange move.

Whether the mobs are new models, or painted over, the resolution makes it hard to really dissect.

What really stands out to me is the shadows of the mobs. There's something off about them, and the world shadows as whole.

In-game and in reveal trailers, they're much more defined than seen here.

[Izalla]

For any one actually interested, and willing to suffer through poor formatting, this was all the info we had on Pandria and Pandaren form the TTRPG.

Spoiler: 

Like 90% of that was disregarded and replaced with what is actually in the game now. And most of what is left was just beer and monks. Oh and the name "shodo-pan" I guess, but it made it in as shado-pan instead, and they have their own rogue thing going on instead.

[Ebonn]

Last I checked, Dragonflight had 4 zones (unless you count the Dracthyr starting zone which no one had except Dracthyr until a patch… (10.0.7) not at launch).

Additionally, both the Broken Isles and Shadowlands had 4 zones (5th zone was endgame). Perhaps, the “leak” only shows the 4 leveling zones?

At the end of the day, Teriz, I love WoW. I’ll play it no matter what. Doesn’t matter to me if this is real, fake, 11.0 is underground, or even if the next expansion is 200 light years away from Azeroth. The issue at hand is the fact that I, and others, can see multiple perspectives.

I just think this whole post deserves to be seen again.

<3 the positivity, and I’m with you.

[KayRule]

Outside of the mobs, the fact that nearly every world asset is re-used is highly suspicious, especially since they use the shots in the trailers of the lands to show off the new environs we're about to explore, so them literally just being existing stuff is incredibly strange move.

Whether the mobs are new models, or painted over, the resolution makes it hard to really dissect.

What really stands out to me is the shadows of the mobs. There's something off about them, and the world shadows as whole.

In-game and in reveal trailers, they're much more defined than seen here.

Like even take away the mob shadows, looking at the full lit desert area with the Harpy, there is ZERO reason, in-game, in trailer, in promo image, that the shadow of that tree is as faint as it is.

[huth]

Like 90% of that was disregarded and replaced with what is actually in the game now. And most of what is left was just beer and monks. Oh and the name "shodo-pan" I guess, but it made it in as shado-pan instead, and they have their own rogue thing going on instead.

Well, it was mostly based on Japanese culture, which China probably took a bit of an issue with since Blizzard is a western company. (Yes, they're hypocrites about it)

[Teriz]

No disagreement there!

My problem is Teriz saying "ugh, you guys think there will be 4 zones?!" based on...4 images, is suspect, but also...yeah, why is it so hard to believe there's 4 zones and some kind of starting/unfinished endgame area like Forbidden Reach.

Even if there's 4 zones, there's no guarantee that the images, if real, are even all 4 of them accounted for.
@Catastrophy349

Loath as I am to say it, Broken Isles had 5 if you ignore the shore. He's still ridiculous, though.

Those screenshots are supposedly tied to the Storms of Avaloren "leak" that specifically mentioned 4 zones in the upcoming expansion: Jungle, Desert, Rocky peaks, snowy peaks, which match the screen shots. No "starting zone" was mentioned.

Also DF had 5 zones because the new zones are larger than previous WoW zones due to dragon riding. If Avaloren has 4 zones that look like rehashes of Dragonflight's zones, we're in a lot of trouble come 11.0.