Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Teriz]

Have to disagree with you on Shadowlands there. Yes, it's been mentioned here and there, but what it ended up actually being wasn't established in lore at all. Other than the name having been used before, I'd say Shadowlands as a place was wholly out of left field. It bares the same name as what's been mentioned in regards to death previously in-universe, but what it ended up being seems completely divorced from anything we knew of it prior to going there. It's more a recycled name than something actually established.

So, I'd say Shadowlands, as it was, was about as well established in lore as Avaloren.

Well Death Knights visited the Shadowlands in WotLK and Legion, and we entered "A Dark Place" which is considered part of the Shadowlands in Legion. The Shadowlands were also discussed in WoW: Chronicles volume 1 in 2016, and was also mentioned in the TTRPGs.

So yeah, I would argue that we knew about the Shadowlands on a much higher level than we know of Avaloren, and the Shadowlands were set up to be a potential expansion for a much longer time.

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Departed players, you keep giving them Classic so they pay a sub anyways. New players? I don’t think there is much they can do. Can have a whole conversation about what kids these days are into playing - and it ain’t mmos.

Yeah classic is part of the equation, as is bringing back well-liked characters like Wrathion and Alexstraza in the current retail expansion.

[KurtMash]

Well Death Knights visited the Shadowlands in WotLK and Legion, and we entered "A Dark Place" which is considered part of the Shadowlands in Legion. The Shadowlands were also discussed in WoW: Chronicles volume 1 in 2016, and was also mentioned in the TTRPGs.

So yeah, I would argue that we knew about the Shadowlands on a much higher level than we know of Avaloren, and the Shadowlands were set up to be a potential expansion for a much longer time.

It's true that Shadowlands existed in lore for longer than Avaloren, but for all we knew it was just a grey, ghostly version of Azeroth. So I really wouldn't say we knew much more about it, it was a blank canvas, just like Avaloren.
And Avaloren, while not mentioned by name, existed in lore for just as long under the name of "The Other Side of Azeroth".

[Well Done Steak]

Well Death Knights visited the Shadowlands in WotLK and Legion, and we entered "A Dark Place" which is considered part of the Shadowlands in Legion. The Shadowlands were also discussed in WoW: Chronicles volume 1 in 2016, and was also mentioned in the TTRPGs.

So yeah, I would argue that we knew about the Shadowlands on a much higher level than we know of Avaloren, and the Shadowlands were set up to be a potential expansion for a much longer time.

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Yeah classic is part of the equation, as is bringing back well-liked characters like Wrathion and Alexstraza in the current retail expansion.

So you just don't like the "lost to time continent" gimmick being replayed for a third time right after the second one?

Cuz outside of that, avaloren has potential to be great with refreshing lore in the same way that undermine, karesh, nathreza all have.

I mean look at the dragon isles, all we had in cannon was a single island expedition quest which was then expanded to DF.

That being said, I agree that yet another lost continent being rediscovered is starting to get overplayed.

[Teriz]

It's true that Shadowlands existed in lore for longer than Avaloren, but for all we knew it was just a grey, ghostly version of Azeroth. So I really wouldn't say we knew much more about it, it was a blank canvas, just like Avaloren.
And Avaloren, while not mentioned by name, existed in lore for just as long under the name of "The Other Side of Azeroth".

Well there was also A Dark Place from Legion where the Shadowlands is portrayed as a dark forest.

Is the "Other side of Azeroth" lore? Also again, these locations tend to actually be named.

[Cherry123]

It's true that Shadowlands existed in lore for longer than Avaloren, but for all we knew it was just a grey, ghostly version of Azeroth. So I really wouldn't say we knew much more about it, it was a blank canvas, just like Avaloren.
And Avaloren, while not mentioned by name, existed in lore for just as long under the name of "The Other Side of Azeroth".

it's sad if The Other Side of Azeroth is just 4 boring zones. Other Side that is no different from many other sides that already exist

[Teriz]

So you just don't like the "lost to time continent" gimmick being replayed for a third time right after the second one?

Cuz outside of that, avaloren has potential to be great with refreshing lore in the same way that undermine, karesh, nathreza all have.

I mean look at the dragon isles, all we had in cannon was a single island expedition quest which was then expanded to DF.

That being said, I agree that yet another lost continent being rediscovered is starting to get overplayed.

The difference between this and Dragon Isles is that we have multiple popular dragon characters that all came from or were linked to that location, so they were the lore hook to lead us to that place. Even with that, the location was mentioned in lore way before it actually showed up as an expansion.

I'll repeat, Avaloren COULD be the next expansion continent, but the evidence and precedence really doesn't support it.

[Cheezits]

Avaloren by itself is the real fear. There needs to be some sort of "AND..." here.

Revamp is preferable, housing would be be nice. Torghast 2 wouldn't cut it.

[Santandame]

Avaloren aside for a second.

Let’s say we do get a complete out of left field expansion, and it’s somewhere like Tel’Abim, K’aresh or Undermine as their own fleshed out continent, not just a zone but done like Kul Tiras, Zandalar and the Broken Isles. How do you separate the zones? What do you do with them?


My hope/idea for Tel’Abim at least would be - I’d have the following zones. A Central Asia/Indian inspired jungle. A desert zone along the lines of the Middle East; and it would be in perpetual darkness/starlight with lots of hidden caves of wonder, ruins beneath the sand. A city zone of which would be the WoW version of Agrabah. A tropical coastal styled zone.

I’m sure @Teriz has a cool idea for Undermine. I’d like to see it similar to Nuka World from Fallout 4.

[Houle]

Soooo, anything of note happen after the supposed leak? Proven fake, or any contenders or just same old back and forth?

[Well Done Steak]

The difference between this and Dragon Isles is that we have multiple popular dragon characters that all came from or were linked to that location, so they were the lore hook to lead us to that place. Even with that, the location was mentioned in lore way before it actually showed up as an expansion.

I'll repeat, Avaloren COULD be the next expansion continent, but the evidence and precedence really doesn't support it.

Well the dragon isles were only mentioned two expansions prior. Wasn't that long till DF release. Before that there was no cannon mention of it. It was always vanilla wow left overs that never made it to live.

As for character anchors. We have Tyr, Odyn, possibly Elune, Eonar, and maybe even Azeroth herself making appearances.

[milkmustache]

Avaloren by itself is the real fear. There needs to be some sort of "AND..." here.

Revamp is preferable, housing would be be nice. Torghast 2 wouldn't cut it.

Avaloren could be cool in theory if it were an actual continent sized continent compared to Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms, maybe even something we don't fully discover until throughout the next few patches.

But you're absolutely right, there needs to be a killer feature if that's all they're doing.

[Ersula]

The novel is so pre-occupied with Vyranoth's internal viewpoint that the Titans ruined the planet I'm suspecting she will either end up being the twist villain of Dragonflight, or, not in a completely villainous way, bring about a world revamp: The pre-sundering map we see in Chronicles is not the earliest version of Azeroth; that was only the result after the Titans sealed away The Elemental Planes & The Dragon Isles (and Helya using the same technology to seal away Helheim & the Halls of Valor) so if Vyranoth were to break the locks hiding these places in their own pocket dimensions, ala Tyrhold, it would result in an Azeroth that looks extremely different.

[Sondrelk]

Know what? Prosthetic limbs would be a cool customization option, they could be based on class/race/preference. Imagine druid with a living wood arm or leg or a shaman with a water or air leg. Forsaken could even use pieces of undead

It would be for sure. Loads you could make them as well. Both class and race specific. Humans getting basic wooden ones, Belves getting more ornate gold leaf ceramic ones, etc.
Just need to put in a quick throwaway line of them being magically animated to explain why they move perfectly normal.

[Leowyld]

I still think the four screenshots are more likely real than not. Maybe it's closer to 50/50 for me, than anything. But I haven't really been convinced to that degree since the Scaleface stuff for Dragonflight. (Personally, I never found the Stormwind Harbor one convincing at all)

As far as the connection between the screenshots and that website leak? It could really be coincidence that the one blurry figure in the background is very similar to the one on the website leak. Doesn't mean they are the same. And, even if they are, there is another possibility. Someone could have ended up with that image of the Aggora (sp?) and built a fake website around it, since it wouldn't be much of a leak on its own.

Yes, I've read all the arguments against the screenshots. None of it is enough to make me completely dismiss them, yet. We'll see in a week.

[angelflavor]

the website leak is real.

What about the 4 pictures reddit leak?

[ImTheMizAwesome]

We have storm which might be a big theme of next expansion and something to cross over that could be even attached to some mechanics if there will be new continent.

Which of the three is most likely when it comes to getting through the storm?

A)through water with a ship
B)Sky with airship
C)Through some kind of underground shenanigans

The datamined mount would suggest air, but who knows.

[Ersula]

We have storm which might be a big theme of next expansion and something to cross over that could be even attached to some mechanics if there will be new continent.

Which of the three is most likely when it comes to getting through the storm?

A)through water with a ship
B)Sky with airship
B)Through some kind of underground shenanigans

I thought the entire idea of Stormriders was that our mounts would be taught how to fly through a storm. Have we forgotten the Algarian Stormrider is the only confirmed leak? If Dwarves can do it so can we.

the website leak is real.

Low-body-fat Ogres is such a bad idea for a new race, even non-playable, it makes me want to cry

[IronWasher]

Name is Shadow over Azeroth. It has to do with one of the void lords casting sort of a void barrier thing over Azeroth. Illidan comes back to warn us just before and Sargeras is out of his prison. He's not redeemed from what I gathered but is working alongside the other titans now that they've realized the threat of the void. He pulls out the sword out of Silithus and through the hole we travel to Uldaz. There is a teleporter pad there which takes us to Khaz'Algar, which is underground, like way waaay underground. The earthen have become "corrupted" by being too close to the titan soul of Azeroth.
Heart of Azeroth is back and Khaz'Algar can only be entered if you have the neck equiped. Major world revamp with lots of void portals opening all over similar to Legion Invasions.
Fun Fact: The trailer is narrated by knaifu.

[Teriz]

Well the dragon isles were only mentioned two expansions prior. Wasn't that long till DF release. Before that there was no cannon mention of it. It was always vanilla wow left overs that never made it to live.

TBF here, Dragon Isles was initially part of Vanilla WoW, and had multiple major characters potentially attached to it. That's a different situation than a concept brought up once in 10.0.2 suddenly being the next expansion in 11.0.

As for character anchors. We have Tyr, Odyn, possibly Elune, Eonar, and maybe even Azeroth herself making appearances.

I wouldn't consider any of them anchors, since they're essentially gods or keepers. Alexstraza for example is a dragon whom we've worked with for multiple expansions. You're comparing that character to someone like Odyn or Elune? What relationship do we have with them that even comes close to the relationship we had with dragons like Chromie, Wrathion and Alex?

[KurtMash]

it's sad if The Other Side of Azeroth is just 4 boring zones. Other Side that is no different from many other sides that already exist

Yeah, I agree, it would be a waste if it turns out that it's just a collection of 10 minicontinents we'll visit over the next 20 years of the game.

A fun, although very silly thought: what if, since Avaloren reminds of Avalon, the zones will be based on Commonwealth countries? So we have UK, Canada, India and Australia, with UK representing the Titans, and each zone explores a different relationship between the Titans and the local population? World of Warcraft: Colonialism