Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Ferlion]

Maybe? It's really NOT a strong sell. Shaman literally have totems that perform Support functions, Warriors have Shouts to help their group. You could easily create a Holy DPS spec for Priest that has Support elements with it making total sense.

At the end of the day it's just the creatively bankrupt side of the fandom trying to force a Bard spec onto Rogue.

Sure.

I can think a rogue would be a good fit for a support spec, while still thinking a bard is a terrible option for a rogue.

[Eeram]

I want a leak that says "total monk rework"

World of warcraft Secrets of Azeroth
Monk Rework
LvL80

[Ashapls]

Sure.

I can think a rogue would be a good fit for a support spec, while still thinking a bard is a terrible option for a rogue.

True, bard is a hard fit into WoW when there is little to no established music-magic that I can think of. Warrior shouts are closest, so give them bard?

Rogue would be better to have an Opportunist or Infiltrator support spec. I’m not a game designer no idea what it would mechanically look like.

[Kiivar86]

I want a leak that says "total monk rework"

I like Windwalker monk though...mostly.

Hate that stupid statue thing though. Faeline stomp is iffy too. I do love the visual though.

Honestly one thing I would like for monks though is more of an aesthetic rework. Make it more agnostic I suppose. Mainly because I'm getting real tired of the same sorta head gear and chi balls for armor that we've gotten for the most part.

And while I'm at it, I'll again repeat my hope of some sorta spell customization thing (more than we can do I mean). I want to color my spells at the bare minimum. That'd be swell.

[Ersula]

True, bard is a hard fit into WoW when there is little to no established music-magic that I can think of. Warrior shouts are closest, so give them bard?

I mean, Evokers weren't based on existing game mechanics.

[Kiivar86]

On top of what Ersula posted, there is of course Murmur too, when it comes to sound at least.

[Eldryth]

I don't like people giving Rogue and DH Support specs. It reeks of being classically terrible at ideas. This fanbase has a habit of assuming "new thing" will dictate every future thing.

The two classes with the most emphasis on being a solitary fighter or loner, with "selfish DPS" literally an original design philosophy of Rogue. DH has PvP bonuses for fighting alone. That really doesn't lend itself to Support. There's PLENTY of classes you could logically give Support to. Priest, Shaman, Warrior even, but Rogue and DH are probably two of the least fitting.

I think Rogue fits well enough- whether it's Bard (like it or not, it's a popular enough archetype and that's the only way I can see it happening in WoW) or a different approach.

Demon Hunter is a stranger fit, but I don't think it's impossible to make it work, and I do think they're the class that could use an additional spec the most right now since they still only have two. A long-range DPS spec that uses a bow (like some Hearthstone cards) might be a better fit, but maybe something like buffing allies with your demonic power could work if they're prioritizing support options?

[Ashapls]

lol. anything in those photos using music magic, or expressing any sort of gameplay foundation for bard? Instruments existing =\= bard

[Floot]

Augmentation has been extremely well received. Why are so many people saying "it's just wouldn't work" when it has already worked.

Though I do see a problem when they add more support specs. When all the dps slots are support it doesn't feel right. Either they need to fix that, or I see all specs being on a spectrum of full dps versus support, with Augmentation being the biggest support extreme on that scale.

Exactly, which is the main reason there is an urgency for them to start handing out the spec to different classes too, unless they're fine with one very specific class holding unto a monopoly and occupying 20% of mythic+ groups for eternity with it.

Whatever the new expansion will bring, chances are extremely high they'll announce new support specs for different classes.

[DrIvoRobotnik]

lol. anything in those photos using music magic, or expressing any sort of gameplay foundation for bard? Instruments existing =\= bard

I... that is literally what a Bard is. They channel magic using instruments and their voice in the form of songs, shouts, and whispers.

[huth]

On top of what Ersula posted, there is of course Murmur too, when it comes to sound at least.

There's also the First Ones. It seems sound is actually a rather potent force in the 'verse.

[huth]

I... that is literally what a Bard is. They channel magic using instruments and their voice in the form of songs, shouts, and whispers.

Let's not forget that the modern equivalent of Bard is Entertainer, either. Both are rather wide and loose terms.

[Dracullus]

One of the reasons why I don't believe these leaks is because there really isn't any features attached to them and sometimes they give random lore explanations for why some things are a certain way.

DF gave us dragon riding, profession revamp, talent revamp, and new way to engage with battle with empowerment, a new class in Evoker and a new support spec mid expansion.

What would you guys like to see as features in the next one?

Yeah, it's funny people have so little imagination that they expect DF 2.0 both in story and gameplay, while literally every single expansion had significant changes both in mechanics and tone.

Imo whole point of DF being so (relatively) peaceful was because people were completely tired with end-of-the-world scenarios after Legion, N'zoth and Jailer. So yeah, I fully expect change here and even expac becoming too edgy for many, just like WoD after MoP.

Second thing is repairing/improving existing mechanics. I don't think we will have deep changes here, people simply like or accept most gameplay stuff, since literally 99% complains are about DF theme. What I would like to see is:

a) account-wide professions, reputations, transmog - truly account wide, not like Renown
b) droping timer for lower M+
c) simplyfing rated PVP to solo que arena and solo que battleground and focusing all attention/fixes there
d) introducing something similar to open raid (anyone remember that? it's been 84 years...) but official or expanding communities (no cap, some ranking/reputation system, etc.)

Of course I don't expect to see it all, some are personal preference and/or risky. And I doubt Blizzard will do risky gameplay decisions now.

Hard to predict good new feature, we are paying Blizzard to do that, but I think it's time to try housing. And later gather feedback and expand it for expac where we hopefully return to old world. Also game right now need more solo challenges.

[Ersula]

lol. anything in those photos using music magic, or expressing any sort of gameplay foundation for bard? Instruments existing =\= bard

You're showing your ignorance. Besides ETC being a playable HOTS characters, Russel & Winslow do have the opportunity to be combat companions in the Boralus Incursion & Necrolord Maw Invasion respectively, with special music based attacks.

Besides bards being the only core D&D class that isn't currently represented in WoW, again I point out Evoker didn't need to be based on established game mechanics.

Though I do really love the concept of another NPC in the Necrolord Maw scenario: An Apothecary who turns into a hulk-like creature from a potion to fulfil a tanking role. That's a decent idea for a class in addition to the Apothecaries in the Darkshore Warfront who helps allies by throwing vials.

[Chickat]

For Pandaria and DI I agree, but for SL hardly (and I am not that big of a fan of SL, but we did know way more about it and even technically visited it before, we just didn't know much of the hierarchy, eternal ones and such).
But the thing still remains that those locations existed in game lore for way more than a year before they were announced as expansion zones, and weren't created specifically for the expansion purpose. While if Avaloren is the next continent, we only found out about it in the expansion where we go there. (And all "hints" before were just refering that there might be something else on azeroth, keeping it vague not to keep it a secret, but so they can make up whatever when the time comes).

I dislike more the idea of it being the next expac from a worldbuilding standpoint, where its just like in a TTRPG campaign in a homebrew world it just sucks if a town/kingdom/dungeon/whatever is created just for the next story arc and was never mentioned before the lead up to that Arc.

I mean people have been begging for the other side of Azeroth for years and we were never going to get a lot of info on that side of the planet before we get there. Seems like y'all are wanting another xpac instead which is fine (I do too) but if Avaloren labeled as the other side of Azeroth came after SL people would have been hyped.

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You don't really need to detect an AI on this image lol, this is the least Blizzard (especially modern Blizzard) image in this thread

Yeah. Even if it wasn't AI its still clearly not a Warcraft cinematic.

[Nymrohd]

I mean people have been begging for the other side of Azeroth for years

They have been? I think people have been debating that something must exist there, not so much about how much they want to go there.

[Chickat]

If this render looked more like this, it would be more believeable.

You jest, but theres someone out there who would want that lmao.

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Hope to god its fake, terrified its real

I mean id rather it be fake too but we dont have nearly enough information from 4 screenshots to write an entire expansion off. It could have killer features, gameplay, and content. Give us legion or better levels of content and i think people could forgive samey zones even if they would prefer something more unique.

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If these are real I think the first image is from the trailer. The other 3 might also be from the trailer, but they look more like presskit images. In any case: A feature trailer is normally around 2-3 mins long, so it would contain more if its real.
I think 4 zones is little, but not out of the question at the same time. It also depends on the size and the variety within the zones themselves.

It also depends on features. 4 zones is small but if you also include a world revamp it becomes more than acceptable.

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Am I the only person that thinks that having Avaloren doesn't necessarily mean that we won't have a world revamp as well? I mean just think about Cata where we had both a revamp and new zones. Would be a fitting amount of content for the 20th anniversary.

Yes, agreed.

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They have been? I think people have been debating that something must exist there, not so much about how much they want to go there.

Ive seen a lot of buzz about it? Maybe im misremembering idk. Im not confident enough in my statement to argue my case.

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Avaloren aside for a second.

Let’s say we do get a complete out of left field expansion, and it’s somewhere like Tel’Abim, K’aresh or Undermine as their own fleshed out continent, not just a zone but done like Kul Tiras, Zandalar and the Broken Isles. How do you separate the zones? What do you do with them?


My hope/idea for Tel’Abim at least would be - I’d have the following zones. A Central Asia/Indian inspired jungle. A desert zone along the lines of the Middle East; and it would be in perpetual darkness/starlight with lots of hidden caves of wonder, ruins beneath the sand. A city zone of which would be the WoW version of Agrabah. A tropical coastal styled zone.

I’m sure @Teriz has a cool idea for Undermine. I’d like to see it similar to Nuka World from Fallout 4.

Tel abim could be middle eastern Aladin themed. Lots of genies and magic. Beautiful golden domed palaces. Etc.

[KyleEverett]

You have to remember the last 2 expansions had 4 levelling zones. BfA technically had 3 levelling zones per faction, Legion had 4 levelling. 3-4 Levelling zones has kinda been their thing since Legion.

[FelPlague]

I mean, Evokers weren't based on existing game mechanics.

1- thing is none of them are doing anything magic with their music, that is like saying we should add an "accountant" class, cause there exists a mage in dalaran who is also an accountant.
They are musicians, but they are not doing anything "magic" with their music. the first guys are not doing anything magical with their music, but use magic to enhance their visuals.
second guy is literally just a random dude playing music, its not some magic thing.
third is a death knight, again normal music, but enchanced with magic. it is not "music with magical effects" its "music, but I happen to also be able to use magic"

There is a difference between.
play a song, and cast a fireball to make fireworks to make stuff look cool
and play a song, that casts a fireball.

2- evokers were based on existing game mechanics, there was evokers before dragonflight, but they were mages who mixed multiple types of magic together to create unique outcomes, the evoker from dota 2 was named such for that exact reason, and kaelthas was an evoker.
evokers were also based on the chromatic dragonflight, which Nefarian's attempt to do what his father did, by mixing all the flights together into one dragon that can use multiple/all magic types.

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On top of what Ersula posted, there is of course Murmur too, when it comes to sound at least.

That was not the "magic of sound" that was from the soundwave.
sound is a PHSYICAL thing.
a loud enough sound can make a shockwave, and that is what murmur did, made a sound so strong it literally blew up.

music in wow is not inherintly magical, I think we have yet to see it ever in such, but it is very much possible, but its not like its "sitting right there already, just not playable"


bards play music which has a magical effect.
the "bards" ersula shows, 2 of which literally are just... random people playing music. the other 2 are just people who play music, who happen to also have magical powers. they are using them to enhance their music, not the other way around.

Again there is a difference between
playing a song, and that song makes something cool happen
and playing a song, but using magic to make something cool happen to go along side the music.


Like when you go to a concert and the lights go along to the music, do you think the music is making the lights change? no, the lights are seperate, and being changed to "enhance" the music.

[J Street]

You have to remember the last 2 expansions had 4 levelling zones. BfA technically had 3 levelling zones per faction, Legion had 4 levelling. 3-4 Levelling zones has kinda been their thing since Legion.

I think players need to let go of expectations for amount of zones in my opinion. If an expansion comes out and the landmass is as large as the broken isles or dragon isles, who cares how many zones it has. As long as it's diverse and interesting, get rid of the arbitrary zone borders all together and make it a single huge isles sized zone for all I care. If Blizz erased the borders on the dragon isles map, would players think of it any different? The border lines just making people think they're getting less/more psychologically, even if the size of a landmass is identical lol