Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[22mage22]

saw someone post about scythe weapons. torment only use glaives and scythe spells. like rogues and pistols.

[Nymrohd]

I would like to ask because im uneducated on the matter, but does blizzard never reuse things like trees, landscape, and grass?

none of the Zandalari trees are reused in Waking Shore? None of the trees in Val'sharah are reused?

Also maybe the reused titan assets from the dinosaur jungle pic are simply to establish a consistent, new "Titan" style that can be carried forward? Those assets are fairly new so i wouldnt find that shocking

In the past few expansions Blizzard has heavily added new assets in each expac. That said, they will reuse recent assets that are of good quality. The issue with those screenshots is that there are very few doodads that are NOT existing assets. Usually even the environmental screenshots that don't show architecture will still focus on a new creature model (preferably one that can become a mount)

[bruxx]

I would like to ask because im uneducated on the matter, but does blizzard never reuse things like trees, landscape, and grass?

none of the Zandalari trees are reused in Waking Shore? None of the trees in Val'sharah are reused?

Also maybe the reused titan assets from the dinosaur jungle pic are simply to establish a consistent, new "Titan" style that can be carried forward? Those assets are fairly new so i wouldnt find that shocking

Blizz reuses assets on every single zone, they just tend to make attention not to get frames of purely reused assets in 2minute short teasers revealing the new and exciting part of an expansion

[Wangming]

The Image Leak coexists with the Text Leak and the Website Leak.

If the text leak or the website leak is fake, then so is the image leak, simple as that.

And the website leak is almost definitely fake.

Plus there are two text leaks that contradict each other in key points.

[matijwow]

Imagine if Legion was leaked and this was the only shot shown:




People would think that 7.0 is a boring filler expansion, no one would think that it's about the Burning Legion's grand return.

It is obvious that Blizzard wants to do more with Azshara and Xal'atath, so I expect a major Void storyline from the next expansion, regardless of how boring or generic the leaked zones look.

I don't remember anyone using the term "filler expansion" until Dragonflight. Seems like something used retrospectively to describe expansions that just turned out to be really disappointing.

[slimyPufferfish]

The Image Leak coexists with the Text Leak and the Website Leak.

If the text leak or the website leak is fake, then so is the image leak, simple as that.

And the website leak is almost definitely fake.

It can be possible that it's only 1 person that created 3 separated accounts in order to push their leak as the real one. My 2 cents

[kavikor]

Blizz reuses assets on every single zone, they just tend to make attention not to get frames of purely reused assets in 2minute short teasers revealing the new and exciting part of an expansion

ive seen an image trying to point out reused assets but the reuse of trees, rocks, and bridges just doesn't feel very substantial maybe to me?

i can understand reusing the titan stuff in that one shot, thats a lot of reused assets to put front and center. but the other 3 feel just fine to me, like the big Eagle statue with the dwarf, that could very well just be a new updated model of that gryphon asset with how far away it is

[PotHockets]

The Image Leak coexists with the Text Leak and the Website Leak.

If the text leak or the website leak is fake, then so is the image leak, simple as that.

And the website leak is almost definitely fake.

No the text leak is it's own entire thing.

The website and the images are tied together because of that Ogre/Dwarf in the background of one of them but the text leaks are just that. Text that anyone can just make up and happen to get lucky. Notice too how before the pictures the zones were described differently than they are after the images in text leaks about Avaloren.

[Leowyld]

I think the website and image leaks are separate. I know that background character looks like it is the Agg'ora from the website thing. I don't really have an explanation for that. If I had to venture a guess, I'd say maybe the website leak person had just the Agg'ora image, from a different source, and made up the text and other stuff. I guess we'll see. Either way, the images are the most believable thing we currently have.

[Chickat]

And the revamp increases EK and Kalimdor to three times their original size.

And blizzard is going to personally give every player 1000 dollars cash. And people will still complain.

[bruxx]

ive seen an image trying to point out reused assets but the reuse of trees, rocks, and bridges just doesn't feel very substantial maybe to me?

i can understand reusing the titan stuff in that one shot, thats a lot of reused assets to put front and center. but the other 3 feel just fine to me, like the big Eagle statue with the dwarf, that could very well just be a new updated model of that gryphon asset with how far away it is

Again, on it's own it's not a problem at all. But if we assume that those screenshots come from any sort of promotional material, what would be the point? they have limited frames that they can showcase to sell us on the expansion and they spend some of that bandwith on that?
Unless we are assuming the leak comes directly from some pre-alpha server where someone took screenshots. And once again, the question becomes why?

Surely they have some new kind of dino that's not yet another triceratops to showcase in their dino area, for example.

[Vakir]

What are you hoping to see for 11.0?

Absolute pipe dream? In descending order of desire, since all of these at once are impossible:

1. A world revamp to work with the time-skip.
2. Racial order hall equivalents (revamping ALL cities is unlikely) with racial campaigns.
3. Some sort of player race or sub-race additions that tick boxes people have wanted for a very long time - Ogres, Vrykul, Naga...
4. A couple of new specs - adding a support spec here and there or a more ranged focus for a 3rd Demon Hunter tree would be lovely.
5. More evergreen content. The flame-bait MMO comparison that shall not be named has a ton of evergreen content that exists entirely outside the treadmill and as a result is less "required" and as a result feels more widely enjoyable. I'd love to see the old world have more reasons to go back to them added, housing, or at least more social activities that will retain their value indefinitely.
6. Expanding M+ to more, older dungeons, although I understand that it may overwhelm the meta-chasers to learn and optimize that many routes.

Disconnected from features, I just want the lore to be more coherent and less enraging as it has been since roughly BFA. Metzen has tons of problems, but I feel like another voice to the creative team for the entire franchise can't be a bad thing.

I don't remember anyone using the term "filler expansion" until Dragonflight. Seems like something used retrospectively to describe expansions that just turned out to be really disappointing.

People did for WoD, and other than Gul'dan's insertion, it really was. The Lightbound stuff didn't come until later and is an outside context issue...until it isn't, at which point it's going to be an absolute logistical shitstorm with everything else it implies. Draenor was better off forgotten or at least cut off forever.

[Raetary]

I would like to ask because im uneducated on the matter, but does blizzard never reuse things like trees, landscape, and grass?

Of course Blizzard reuses assets.
Reusing assets is part of game development.

But there is a vast difference between occasionally reusing assets, and showcasing a zone with shots that consist of primarily old models.
And that not as background details, but sitting in the foreground for everyone to see.

We compared trailer shots like 30 pages ago, it doesn't matter what shots you take from previous expansion trailers, it always contained brand new stuff.
New foliage, new buildings, new trees, maybe new color schemes, etc.

The 4 images don't do that.
Hell, people clocked the random dead tree in the harpie image as a model used in the waking shore.

If people notice it this bad, then something is clearly up.
Either its fake and whoever made it just used what was available to them, or Blizzards art team is starting to lose steam.

[kavikor]

I think the website and image leaks are separate. I know that background character looks like it is the Agg'ora from the website thing. I don't really have an explanation for that. If I had to venture a guess, I'd say maybe the website leak person had just the Agg'ora image, from a different source, and made up the text and other stuff. I guess we'll see. Either way, the images are the most believable thing we currently have.

I feel like there's no doubt its the Agg'ora if you zoom close enough they clearly share that same exact markings in the same color and same shape across the chest whilst also having different armor/gear so unless theyre both from the same guy leaking who ig could've textured maybe a mogu model pretended it was real idk.

[Hitei]

Be careful when saying the images are *definitely* fake. I'm not saying they are definitely real, but I think they are more likely real than not. I say this because someone linked the old Dragonflight speculation topic yesterday and I took a little trip down memory lane reading it. I'd forgotten how many "definitely not real" claims there were about the dracthyr - a lot of familiar names, too. Is there a leak, right now, that is more believable, that hasn't been objectively disproven?

I'd honestly argue that any just random unsubstantiated leak that doesn't have immediate disqualifications is more believable. Those have no evidence but nothing suggesting they are fake either, this has a bunch of stuff that makes it look questionable, even if it's higher effort and provides an in-depth visual.

Like if you have two advertisements selling a solid gold bar, and one is just a text advertisement saying it's selling a gold bar, and the other has photos of the supposed gold bar, but it looks like it's just a stock photo. Even if the other is "more proof" if the proof just fosters additional doubts about legitimacy then it's not really more believable.

I don't think any of the leaks so far are real. I don't believe 22mage, but I'd consider his LARPing to be more believable than the screenshot leak, just because there's not so much of a red flag.

[Sondrelk]

I would like to ask because im uneducated on the matter, but does blizzard never reuse things like trees, landscape, and grass?

none of the Zandalari trees are reused in Waking Shore? None of the trees in Val'sharah are reused?

Also maybe the reused titan assets from the dinosaur jungle pic are simply to establish a consistent, new "Titan" style that can be carried forward? Those assets are fairly new so i wouldnt find that shocking

They reuse stuff, but not to this extent unless having somewhere to reuse assets is the point, like Island Expeditions.

More importantly though is that there have not been zones that look the same as other zones to this extent. Especially if you consider pre and post MoP and the graphical overhaul of the game.
The new image with the harpies use the harpy assets from Legion and some trees from Waking Shore. But more importantly, it uses the colour palette and general theme of Vol'dun, which is extremely noticeable.

The broader point here though is consistency. We have four images, which in this situation would be a large sample size given they don't show the same areas.
The first image with Avaloren makes it clear that this should be understood to be the features trailer they will show after the cinematic trailer at Blizzcon.
It's not easy to take four pictures from a modern features trailer, and somehow get nothing interesting out of them. If you had the entire zone to explore and take screenshots of then of course, but this is presumably curated to within an inch of its life to showcase the most exciting landmarks and locations in the new continent.
Where is the giant rift where G'hanir was? Or the entrance to the city of Khaz Algar? Where are the new dwarf buildings that are likely to show up given the Dwarves there presumably live in houses of some kind?

It's simply suspect that within a distilled example of what is cool about the new area, there are somehow four images that show none of that.
The first image only has the name. That is usually where you have the juiciest of trailer shots. The main gate of Boralus, or the steps to the pyramids of Zuldazar. A wide shot of the plains of Bastion, or the gothic style of Revendreth.

Either the leaker is intentionally trolling by picking only the quarter seconds of the trailer where nothing happens. Blizzard has lost their touch.
Or most likely, the leakers didn't have the time to make exciting new big assets to focus on, so they went for quantity instead to lend it legitimacy.

- - - Updated - - -

I think the website and image leaks are separate. I know that background character looks like it is the Agg'ora from the website thing. I don't really have an explanation for that. If I had to venture a guess, I'd say maybe the website leak person had just the Agg'ora image, from a different source, and made up the text and other stuff. I guess we'll see. Either way, the images are the most believable thing we currently have.

Why make a fake leak around the real stuff? Just seems like a weird choice when you could just leak the legitimate image you had and get far more attention on the chance more of it is leaked.

[Chickat]

I really dislike the Q&As historically, there is too much cruft and useless questions/time filling by doing shoutouts. Accepting questions and answering post event is fine by me. *shrugs*

And they waste 3 or 4 questions worth of time by saying "shout-out to my guild Lazer Kittens on Sargeras alliance. Love you guys"

[kavikor]

Of course Blizzard reuses assets.
Reusing assets is part of game development.

But there is a vast difference between occasionally reusing assets, and showcasing a zone with shots that consist of primarily old models.
And that not as background details, but sitting in the foreground for everyone to see.

We compared trailer shots like 30 pages ago, it doesn't matter what shots you take from previous expansion trailers, it always contained brand new stuff.
New foliage, new buildings, new trees, maybe new color schemes, etc.

The 4 images don't do that.
Hell, people clocked the random dead tree in the harpie image as a model used in the waking shore.

If people notice it this bad, then something is clearly up.
Either its fake and whoever made it just used what was available to them, or Blizzards art team is starting to lose steam.

Thank you for providing me with that info! I went back and read and realized I'm rehashing stuff that's been talked about.

[Vakir]

And they waste 3 or 4 questions worth of time by saying "shout-out to my guild Lazer Kittens on Sargeras alliance. Love you guys"

Not to defend some of the banality of the questions they bring, I have a suspicion those were encouraged and perhaps later enforced by Blizzard themselves. Once Q&As became more vetted directly, a lot of the cards they were required to read off of had their character name and realm registered onto it and it may've been either an encouraged or expected read under the confused intention of "fostering community" or some such.

Outside that, though, it's a consequence of a franchise that people have stuck with outside of its brightest star in pop culture. The people still going to BlizzCon are the most fervent of the fervent. Which means the longer people stick with this, the more likely they are to care enough to give shout-outs to their friends, because a lot of those friends they may have known for 20 years. But people here for content, the majority, don't give a shit.

[Nymrohd]

I'd honestly argue that any just random unsubstantiated leak that doesn't have immediate disqualifications is more believable. Those have no evidence but nothing suggesting they are fake either, this has a bunch of stuff that makes it look questionable, even if it's higher effort and provides an in-depth visual.

Like if you have two advertisements selling a solid gold bar, and one is just a text advertisement saying it's selling a gold bar, and the other has photos of the supposed gold bar, but it looks like it's just a stock photo. Even if the other is "more proof" if the proof just fosters additional doubts about legitimacy then it's not really more believable.

I don't think any of the leaks so far are real. I don't believe 22mage, but I'd consider his LARPing to be more believable than the screenshot leak, just because there's not so much of a red flag.

I'd say the Diablo leak is somewhat believable because it used the term Nahantu. An item known as the Ivory Horn of Torajan was renamed as Ivory Horn of Nahantu in patch 1.2 AFTER that leak happened. I am decently versed in Diablo lore and I had dismissed that leak because I had never heard the name Nahantu before. The leak itself is weird because it has a class that doesn't make much sense but everything else in it does (a raid system, mercenaries, Mephisto, Kurast and the southern third of the eastern continent) and it is the only leak we have supported by datamining. And then it ends by saying we are getting a revamp and the warcraft expac's acronym is SoA (which can be so many things)