Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Thrillhouse918]

I'm thinking we get a leak late Wednesday or Thursday like we did with Dragonflight. Someone that sees something they shouldn't and races to the forums.

I'm also leaning towards the Avaloren/Khaz Algar expansion. Something on the other side of the world. I think that whatever happens there will trigger a reshaping of the world - we have the New Tree, and if we're going deep into the earth then perhaps we finally see the damage Sargeras' Sword is inflicting. Maybe a Titan Rewrite? Either way we've had Cata longer than Vanilla. Given that they're allowing dynamic flying in old world I think the time is ripe.

[LordKharon]

If nothing else, i hope that the "dwarfs living in a huge chasm" is true. Imagine a huge zone almost completely on the 2 faces of the chasm, completely vertical (with some stuff on the ground and up top). They have the tech, see Valdrakken. Moving around mostly by flying, bridges, elevators... Could even do a 2 faction system like chasm is oriented E-W and so the south face never gets any sunshine resulting in "dark dwarfs" and "light dwarfs" on the northern face (who dont like each other, some cold war story maybe)...

[Wangming]

I would argue that every announcement needs a big hook. Something for the announcers to point to and say "be excited for this".
Usually this is either the location being exciting, like BfA or WoD. Or the plot being exciting, like Legion.

BfA had both though. The feature trailer began with the burning Teldrassil. How is THAT for a show starter?

[Sondrelk]

I agree, but I also think all that hooking could be done during an announcement trailer. It doesn't necessarily have to have been set up in-game already.

I suppose it depends on what the reason we go there is. But if it's a Titan keeper themed plotline like what I would expect based on what we know from the books, then I think it would be weird for the announcers, given they will likely have to skirt around the issue seeing as the Odyn questline isn't available. Or Tyr still being an empty construct.

A colonization plotline is the only thing that makes sense to me to get around that, though even that would feel very left field.

[Hitei]

I think the problem is that it's the weakest of justifications. There are probably loads of islands in WoW we have not heard about, but it would still be a weird choice if we just got a random one as an expansion.

We still need that tiny bit of buildup to have the location make sense.

There was no build up at all for the Broken Isles.

It was a pointless reef with long dead ruins that had fallen below the ocean until the trailer where Khadgar showed up in Stormwind and was like "Oh, by the way, the Legion just warped a massive army to the Broken Isles, which are now a large flourishing land with all sorts of native cultures and societies."

"Past Draenor"'s only build up was the vague implication of 5.4 having Bronze Dragons.

The single expansion of build up we have for KA/Alva is already more than that. We already know there's a place to the west that dragons have vanished to and that pirates have come back rich from and that might house some mysterious fissure and strange earthen and titan-forged who practice heresy. Even before a cinematic starts up and has Elune slam down into the region and declare that this is birth of the Empire of the New Moon, or Azshara, Xal and Iridkiron warp in with a void army at their backs, we already have hooks.

[Myrrh]

I suppose this is true. Though even Legion had the buildup with the end of WoD.

Iridikron being on Avaloren seems a bit weak as a hook to me.

I mean, as a direct comparison with WoD-->Legion, we're currently on par with speculating about the expansion after WoD without knowing the Archimonde death cinematic right now.

'Gul'Dan steals Illidan's corpse and summons the Legion on some islands surrounding the Tomb of Sargeras' seems a bit outlandish without knowing that he gets zapped through the Dark Portal with Achimonde's dying breath.

It is a bit rich to say that an expansion would have a weak link when we literally don't even know what the link will be yet - we haven't experienced the end of the current expansion.

[Thrillhouse918]

I suppose this is true. Though even Legion had the buildup with the end of WoD.

Iridikron being on Avaloren seems a bit weak as a hook to me.

I think if we get Iridikron being on Avaloren as the 'problem' it will be because there is a much greater threat he has access to. Old Gods. Something from the timeways. He's the catalyst, not the crisis.

[Sondrelk]

There was no build up at all for the Broken Isles.

It was a pointless reef with long dead ruins that had fallen below the ocean until the trailer where Khadgar showed up in Stormwind and was like "Oh, by the way, the Legion just warped a massive army to the Broken Isles, which are now a large flourishing land with all sorts of native cultures and societies."

"Past Draenor"'s only build up was the vague implication of 5.4 having Bronze Dragons.

The single expansion of build up we have for KA/Alva is already more than that. We already know there's a place to the west that dragons have vanished to and that pirates have come back rich from and that might house some mysterious fissure and strange earthen and titan-forged who practice heresy. Even before a cinematic starts up and has Elune slam down into the region and declare that this is birth of the Empire of the New Moon, or Azshara, Xal and Iridkiron warp in with a void army at their backs, we already have hooks.

The Broken Isles was a well known location though. The Tomb of Sargeras was prominently featured in Warcraft 3, and it's approximate location was even shown on in-game maps long before Legion. It was just all the extra stuff like Highmountain and Stormheim that was filler.


For Khaz Algar and Avaloren though I would just have expected more prominent buildup. We might know it, but I don't think the average player knows the books even exist, much less what in them. Several of the books we currently use for justification isn't even technically in the game yet, they are hidden away on the PTR.

Maybe 10.2 was meant to come out before Blizzcon, and it's just an unfortunate happenstance it didn't. But stuff like Erinethria and her brood being revealed prominently before the in-game tease seems very backwards.

[Sondrelk]

I mean, as a direct comparison with WoD-->Legion, we're currently on par with speculating about the expansion after WoD without knowing the Archimonde death cinematic right now.

'Gul'Dan steals Illidan's corpse and summons the Legion on some islands surrounding the Tomb of Sargeras' seems a bit outlandish without knowing that he gets zapped through the Dark Portal with Achimonde's dying breath.

It is a bit rich to say that an expansion would have a weak link when we literally don't even know what the link will be yet - we haven't experienced the end of the current expansion.

Legion was still announced after the Archimonde death cinematic though. So the argument you are making presupposes that we would have known something from 10.2 that would have changed everything.

Maybe that's the case, but it will be a very weird announcement if it is.

[Myrrh]

The Broken Isles was a well known location though. The Tomb of Sargeras was prominently featured in Warcraft 3, and it's approximate location was even shown on in-game maps long before Legion. It was just all the extra stuff like Highmountain and Stormheim that was filler.


For Khaz Algar and Avaloren though I would just have expected more prominent buildup. We might know it, but I don't think the average player knows the books even exist, much less what in them. Several of the books we currently use for justification isn't even technically in the game yet, they are hidden away on the PTR.

Maybe 10.2 was meant to come out before Blizzcon, and it's just an unfortunate happenstance it didn't. But stuff like Erinethria and her brood being revealed prominently before the in-game tease seems very backwards.

Counterpoint using your thought process, has the average WoW player played WC3 and/or did they actually recognise the Broken Isles?

Legion was still announced after the Archimonde death cinematic though. So the argument you are making presupposes that we would have known something from 10.2 that would have changed everything.

Maybe that's the case, but it will be a very weird announcement if it is.

By all means double check my dates here, but on quick scan Antorus (and therefore its sword cinematic) unlocked 28 November. BfA was announced on 3 Nov. We had zip idea what sparked it.

[Sondrelk]

I think Avaloren will be fine. It'll all make sense to players once Blizzard has shown the cinematic and given a bit of background lore.

If they decide to reveal a multi-year roadmap with several expansions teased on the other side of Azeroth, even better.

Heck, Avaloren could even be a mega continent similar to Ancient Kalimdor. Having Avaloren as an umbrella term for the other side of Azeroth would save us a mouthful in conversation. I wonder what we'd call this side though.

I suppose the issue for me is that this would make perfect sense after we had a world revamp.
Same setup as MoP in that we have fixed everything back home, and now it's time for shenanigans across the sea.

[KurtMash]

I don't think the expansion will start with iridikron, more likely it will be Odin sending us there for whatever reason, perhaps as a trap. In 11.0 we will only discover traces of corruption, but it won't be the main subject of the leveling process. Iridikron himself will show up only later as we build up toward the finale where he does something that launches an actual void expansion.

[keelr]

I think Avaloren will be fine. It'll all make sense to players once Blizzard has shown the cinematic and given a bit of background lore.

If they decide to reveal a multi-year roadmap with several expansions teased on the other side of Azeroth, even better.

Heck, Avaloren could even be a mega continent similar to Ancient Kalimdor. Having Avaloren as an umbrella term for the other side of Azeroth would save us a mouthful in conversation. I wonder what we'd call this side though.

This sounds like my worst nightmare regarding lore. They should stop coming up with lore based on "It was always there, we just didn't know about it". Thats such a trash storytelling.

[Jaggler]

Cataclysm also had absolutely no build-up.

Again, a strong hook can still appear in 10.2.5 or 10.2.7. For all it's worth it could be within the Tyr Questline in 10.2.
A location being known only really helps with the initial hype. What matters in the end is the stories told within the context of that place.

This sounds like my worst nightmare regarding lore. They should stop coming up with lore based on "It was always there, we just didn't know about it". Thats such a trash storytelling.

In grand total this happened twice in the lifetime of WoW: Uldum and Pandaria. Three times if we count the Dragon Isles (but we knew that they existed)

[Sondrelk]

Counterpoint using your thought process, has the average WoW player played WC3 and/or did they actually recognise the Broken Isles?

No, but by that logic nothing ever makes sense. Many players probably didn't even read the quest texts that explain why we are fighting Razsageth in the vault. Or is even aware that the reason we fight Drakonids so often is because of the protests against their poor treatment by the dragons.

[Wangming]

There was no build up at all for the Broken Isles.

It was a pointless reef with long dead ruins that had fallen below the ocean until the trailer where Khadgar showed up in Stormwind and was like "Oh, by the way, the Legion just warped a massive army to the Broken Isles, which are now a large flourishing land with all sorts of native cultures and societies."

"Past Draenor"'s only build up was the vague implication of 5.4 having Bronze Dragons.

The single expansion of build up we have for KA/Alva is already more than that. We already know there's a place to the west that dragons have vanished to and that pirates have come back rich from and that might house some mysterious fissure and strange earthen and titan-forged who practice heresy. Even before a cinematic starts up and has Elune slam down into the region and declare that this is birth of the Empire of the New Moon, or Azshara, Xal and Iridkiron warp in with a void army at their backs, we already have hooks.

I get that. You kinda have a point.
But consider this:
The Legion attacked with a bunch of well known people we grew to know love or love to hate from the time between War Craft 1 and WoD.
The Legion also had very tangible affects on our lives. Gul'Dan, both versions, was a grade A arsehole we wanted to stop.

In WoD we knew who Garrosh was and pretty much all Warlord was a known lore character.

What of Avaloren? They are heretics. To titans. For some reason. What does that even entail? What have they been doing? Definitely not anything that would affect Azeroth in a meaningful way. Maybe they are just minding their own business and smoking weed, but the Titans think that ganja is the Legion's lettuce so they need to die.
What if my character does not care about Heretics? What if they want to hang out in Pandaria and eat spicy noodles? Do they have a personal reason to go there?

[Myrrh]

I suppose the issue for me is that this would make perfect sense after we had a world revamp.
Same setup as MoP in that we have fixed everything back home, and now it's time for shenanigans across the sea.

Granted I'm making some bold assumptions as to the canonical cause of the eventual revamp here, but personally I would see a jaunt to the other side of the world only to return to a vastly reshaped Kalimdor/EK to make more sense - the Dragon Isles aren't all that far away in terms of distance.

Shadowlands would have made more sense, but evidently the revamp was barely a glimmer in their eyes at that point.

[ercarp]

Cataclysm also had absolutely no build-up.

Deathwing's story was still unfinished and a lot of people were curious about what he was up to and if he would ever return. Cataclysm also added many locations that had been teased since Vanilla, like Uldum, Grim Batol, Mount Hyjal, Maelstrom, etc.

Cataclysm had a lot more build-up than Avaloren. No one cares about a random island that has existed in the game's canon for less than a year.

[Makorus]

We are literally the champion of a Titan?????

[Teriz]

You are confusing lore reasons to go somewhere vs what the players want. The fact that some players wanted pandas is undeniable and probably why Pandaria happened. What we knew about it lorewise to justify an entire expansion around it is just as good (if not worse) as what we know about avaloren.

Again, that's false. If you disagree with this, describe any race currently on or from Avaloren. Describe the culture or style of Avaloren based on the information we have.

From this single image;



We get a ton of information about Pandaren and Pandaria. And we had that from the beginning.