Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Wangming]

I don't know mate, the older I become and the more games I play the less interested I'm becoming on the reasons to go in a place to kill the same bosses every week to take their things. Honestly a nice stage is fun but in the end it boils down to the same formulaic treadmill we are doing for the last couple decades.

If anything I would invest more in a shakedown of the systems than anything else

i get. Like I said these are my own subjective reasons. I love stories. I'm an author. Whenever I play games I play for the world and the story just as much as the gameplay. And I like looking at it from the eyes of my character.

[Harbour]

To be fair Denathrius will likely return. I actually have a half (or more like quarter) baked expansion concept where he returns at the head of a vampire army that he turned AU Gilneans into.

I mostly meant Theotar, that Revendreth prince, other Revendreth characters.
I bet Denathrius will return in some role because Dreadlords are very much weaved into the whole Void and Light conflict, and Revendreth itself has deep connection with the Light (it fucked Revendreth up and there is Naaru).

[Hitei]

Wasn't Odyn right actually lol?

All the dragons do is corrupting themselves and being drama queens. Like majority of the problem that Dragons solve are caused by the Dragons

The Keepers do the same shit so I'm not sure he has any room to talk.

[Moth Preacher]

The Keepers do the same shit so I'm not sure he has any room to talk.

I mean, yeah. But why spawn even more unreliable things.

Ayyyo, let's give this Lizard a power to bend time itself))

[huth]

Wasn't Odyn right actually lol?

All the dragons do is corrupting themselves and being drama queens. Like majority of the problems that Dragons solve are caused by the Dragons

And all Odyn achieved was getting himself locked in and giving more power to Zovaal. I don't think he really has any better idea how to handle things.

[Varodoc]

The problem with Shadowlands was not the setting. At least, it only became a "problem" after 9.1, when people started getting salty about the Jailer sucking and Blizzard lawsuits. Suddenly the setting became a problem.

When SL was announced, no one had a problem with the setting. People were hyped to see the Hell landscape of the Warcraft universe, people were hyped to see the afterlife of the Wild Gods, people were hyped to see the afterlife of the setting. Before SL was announced, the vast majority of people and leaks wanted an Afterlife-based expansion, with the continuation of the Death storyline involving Sylvanas, Lich King, and Bwonsamdi.

The problem with SL was not the setting, it was the boring trash main villain. I guarantee you that SL would have been far better received if Sylvanas/Arthas/Yogg-Saron were the main villains insetad of the random asspulled Jailer.

So I wouldn't discredit a Void Lords expansion just because SL lore flopped. Void Lords, unlike the Jailer, have been known by the average player since Legion. 99% of the playerbase hasn't read the Chronicles, but they will have heard from someone that Sargeras was terrified of the Void Lords and created the Legion to fight them, because everyone was talking about it all over the internet when Chronicles were first published. It was a massive revelation that recontextualized everything. Then, the average player will have heard in 7.3 flashback cutscene that Sargeras was terrified of the Void and that Archimonde and Kil'jaeden were convinced to join the Legion to stop the Void.

So I believe that 11.0 will feature the Void in a major way. Even if it is Avaloren setting, the Void will be present as the main storyline/threat. The average player is just itching for a full-blown Void expansion.

[Sondrelk]

There literally was no reason to go to Dragon Isles.

Like elementals spawned in deserted zones and some arrogant lizzards with wings giving us orders?

Like wtf

Dragonflight was also pitched on the specific idea of having a standard or "boring" expansion with a bunch of basic WoW stuff like dragons and Titan ruins as a palette cleanser after SL.

Having a new exciting expansion be basically the same pitch isn't a great look.

[Delever]

The problem with Shadowlands was not the setting. At least, it only became a "problem" after 9.1, when people started getting salty about the Jailer sucking and Blizzard lawsuits. Suddenly the setting became a problem.

When SL was announced, no one had a problem with the setting. People were hyped to see the Hell landscape of the Warcraft universe, people were hyped to see the afterlife of the Wild Gods, people were hyped to see the afterlife of the setting. Before SL was announced, the vast majority of people and leaks wanted an Afterlife-based expansion, with the continuation of the Death storyline involving Sylvanas, Lich King, and Bwonsamdi.

The problem with SL was not the setting, it was the boring trash main villain. I guarantee you that SL would have been far better received if Sylvanas/Arthas/Yogg-Saron were the main villains insetad of the random asspulled Jailer.

So I wouldn't discredit a Void Lords expansion just because SL lore flopped. Void Lords, unlike the Jailer, have been known by the average player since Legion. 99% of the playerbase hasn't read the Chronicles, but they will have heard from someone that Sargeras was terrified of the Void Lords and created the Legion to fight them, because everyone was talking about it all over the internet when Chronicles were first published. It was a massive revelation that recontextualized everything. Then, the average player will have heard in 7.3 flashback cutscene that Sargeras was terrified of the Void and that Archimonde and Kil'jaeden were convinced to join the Legion to stop the Void.

So I believe that 11.0 will feature the Void in a major way. Even if it is Avaloren setting, the Void will be present as the main storyline/threat. The average player is just itching for a full-blown Void expansion.

The existence of the jailer is not even the problem. When they first revealed him and all we knew was that sylvanas was working with him, it was alright and people were pretty excited to know more. When they made the jailer this 5d chess villain who was behind everything all along, that's when it started sucking ass.

- - - Updated - - -

Dragonflight was also pitched on the specific idea of having a standard or "boring" expansion with a bunch of basic WoW stuff like dragons and Titan ruins as a palette cleanser after SL.

Having a new exciting expansion be basically the same pitch isn't a great look.

This is a far more convincing argument against avaloren than what teriz is making.

[Harbour]

I think when people ask what is the reason to visit Avaloren they mean not "What is the plot reason?" but rather "Why would players want to do that?".
After all throught the plot Blizzard always gave us the kickstart at the pre-patch, but in previous cases besides the plot there was already established interest in visiting new place. People were fine to visit Dragon Isles because they always wanted to visit it.
The only exception is Pandaria, but i tell you what - since the pandaria avaloren is my least hyped place where i wanted to be.
I remember back in 2010-2011 when the Pandaria rumours appeared i as well as many other people on forums didnt want to believe that and thought thats the joke.
And i skipped the whole expansion, coming back only in WoD.
Avaloren just isnt good place for 11.0. It needs more than just a book to make people (non hardcore lorekeepers) at least interested in visiting it.

[huth]

Dragonflight was also pitched on the specific idea of having a standard or "boring" expansion with a bunch of basic WoW stuff like dragons and Titan ruins as a palette cleanser after SL.

Having a new exciting expansion be basically the same pitch isn't a great look.

Well, there was also the Aspects going "hey, come visit our home".

And of course, several expansions did provide a reason... but only in the pre-patch. We had no reason to go to Outland before TBC prepatch, we had no reason to go to Northrend before WotLK pre-patch, Deathwing only showed up in Cata pre-patch...

[Pheraz]

Kinda offtopic to the current discussion but still fitting the topic of this thread

Let's assume that all leaks are fake. Which could mean that blizzard finally managed to not give out any unencrypted art or press kit before the announcement. Which.... Is about time, isn't it?

[Delever]

I think when people ask what is the reason to visit Avaloren they mean not "What is the plot reason?" but rather "Why would players want to do that?".
After all throught the plot Blizzard always gave us the kickstart at the pre-patch, but in previous cases besides the plot there was already established interest in visiting new place. People were fine to visit Dragon Isles because they always wanted to visit it.
The only exception is Pandaria, but i tell you what - since the pandaria avaloren is my least hyped place where i wanted to be.
I remember back in 2010-2011 when the Pandaria rumours appeared i as well as many other people on forums didnt want to believe that and thought thats the joke.
And i skipped the whole expansion, coming back only in WoD.
Avaloren just isnt good place for 11.0. It needs more than just a book to make people (non hardcore lorekeepers) at least interested in visiting it.

And I agree with you. But at some point it is only logical that they are going to start creating new lore and new places that we don't know about yet. Especially considering that a lot of the alternatives (like basing an entire expansion around goblins and the undermine) would suck even more. And I personally like goblins.

- - - Updated - - -

Kinda offtopic to the current discussion but still fitting the topic of this thread

Let's assume that all leaks are fake. Which could mean that blizzard finally managed to not give out any unencrypted art or press kit before the announcement. Which.... Is about time, isn't it?

Dunno man the algarian stormrider is the one that's looking pretty damn real. The rest could all be fakes but they ve definitely slipped up a bit .

[Samin]

I think when people ask what is the reason to visit Avaloren they mean not "What is the plot reason?" but rather "Why would players want to do that?".
After all throught the plot Blizzard always gave us the kickstart at the pre-patch, but in previous cases besides the plot there was already established interest in visiting new place. People were fine to visit Dragon Isles because they always wanted to visit it.
The only exception is Pandaria, but i tell you what - since the pandaria avaloren is my least hyped place where i wanted to be.
I remember back in 2010-2011 when the Pandaria rumours appeared i as well as many other people on forums didnt want to believe that and thought thats the joke.
And i skipped the whole expansion, coming back only in WoD.
Avaloren just isnt good place for 11.0. It needs more than just a book to make people (non hardcore lorekeepers) at least interested in visiting it.

Because you know almost nothing about Avaloren. Maybe instead of crying how boring Avaloren is, wait until Blizzard tells what's going on there and suggests some reasons why you as the player might be interested in going there.

Because if they go to Avaloren, they will. They will come up with cool things happening there and fun things to do there to hopefully make you excited for the expansion. That's kind of their job. And maybe that works for your or it doesn't. Can't really win all of them. But they will try. The reason you have no reason to go there is because they didn't really try. (imo they do try a bit with the teasing books, but again, can't win everyone all the time)

You're just being a premature bummer.

[CrossNgen]

To be fair Denathrius will likely return. I actually have a half (or more like quarter) baked expansion concept where he returns at the head of a vampire army that he turned AU Gilneans into.

I have to ask; why AU Gilneans specifically?

[Wangming]

The problem with Shadowlands was not the setting. At least, it only became a "problem" after 9.1, when people started getting salty about the Jailer sucking and Blizzard lawsuits. Suddenly the setting became a problem.

When SL was announced, no one had a problem with the setting. People were hyped to see the Hell landscape of the Warcraft universe, people were hyped to see the afterlife of the Wild Gods, people were hyped to see the afterlife of the setting. Before SL was announced, the vast majority of people and leaks wanted an Afterlife-based expansion, with the continuation of the Death storyline involving Sylvanas, Lich King, and Bwonsamdi.

The problem with SL was not the setting, it was the boring trash main villain. I guarantee you that SL would have been far better received if Sylvanas/Arthas/Yogg-Saron were the main villains insetad of the random asspulled Jailer.

Oh absolutely. The Jailer was so bad even Taliesin spoke highly of Final Fantasy XIV in his Shadowlands vids. And Denathrius was actually popular despite having no interesting motivation besides power-hungry baddy, cause he was a charismatic vampire lord.
Zovaal looked, sounded, and acted boring and we only got a reason to care about his diabolical plan in the very last patch when it turned out it will involve Azeroth's World Soul somehow.

It was a disaster. Granted the patch cadence did not help either.

Thing is, I don't find the incarnates all that interesting either. I don't fucking care what iridikron wants to do. Knaifu? Yes. Azshara? Yes. Denathrius? Also yes. Alternate Universe Illidan who became the Lich King? Yes. Expansion 2 of Stone Dragon I don't care about trying to punish the Titans I also don't care about? I'll pass.

[Nyel]

Anyone else isnt fascinated with the prospect of Odyn being the focus (or one of the) of another expansion, as well as framing Titans as the bad guys?
We had him as the boss twice in Legion and then he appeared occasionally here and there.
He never gave the 'big bad' vibe.
More like 'local grumpy asshole we had to deal with occasionally but who would help against bigger and way more sinister foes'.

And obvious framing Titans as the villains would DEhype me.
I liked them in Legion and they were fine dudes in the Legion's end cutscene. I dont want to fight them at all, and i dont think the story and lore properly made me feel that what they did to primal habitants of Azeroth was very bad and warrant taking measures now, 2000000000gazillions years later, right after they SAVED US ALL.

Where i lead with that - every leak with Odyn being big bad and Titans being big bads is a fake and bullshit.

It just sounds terrible as the premise for an expansion, there I said it. Especially after Dragonflight. It‘s just retreading known ground. Same NPCs, same stories, same snooze fest.

Khaz Algar / Avaloren as an expansion premise is just too weak coming after an expansion that‘s been received pretty poorly by the (former) playerbase when it comes to setting and agenda. It would be just another step down and that’s really not something WoW can or should do right now. The next expansion needs to be pompous.

[NikolaiShade]

Dunno man the algarian stormrider is the one that's looking pretty damn real. The rest could all be fakes but they ve definitely slipped up a bit .

The Algarian Stormrider has been datamined and confirmed by many sources including Marlamin himself, so it's the only certainty we have about 11.0

[Hitei]

Kinda offtopic to the current discussion but still fitting the topic of this thread

Let's assume that all leaks are fake. Which could mean that blizzard finally managed to not give out any unencrypted art or press kit before the announcement. Which.... Is about time, isn't it?

There's no way around doing so.

Blizzard doesn't own clothing and merch factories so they have to send that information and those designs out to manufactures to make merch for Blizzcon. They have to send the commercial art out to professional printers for fliers and things, they have to prep big news sites like PC gamer, IGN and Kotaku with press stuff before hand, so that they can have articles (likely with interviews) written and out right have announcement.

It's difficult to ensure that everyone in all those other companies is on the up and up.

[Marlamin]

The Algarian Stormrider has been datamined and confirmed by many sources including Marlamin himself, so it's the only certainty we have about 11.0

I mean, we know it is real, it being for the 11.0 preorder, while I think is likely, is technically conjecture still. Never treat datamining as 100% confirmed.

[Teriz]

They could very well confirm it in the reveal. Just like they ve done with a lot of other expansions. I don't think blizzard ever confirmed that there was a zereth mortis either where progenitors creater Minecraft versions of things before they gave them life. Or that there are 4 covenants ruling the shadowlands.

But Blizzard wouldn't need to confirm it at reveal. We would already know that Avaloren is on the other side of Azeroth if that were the case. Further, "the other side of Azeroth" doesn't mean anything if you don't know what's on the other side of Azeroth, or heard nothing about it. If this was legitimate, we'd have some weird rumors or stories about the other side of the world just like in real life when sailors and explorers would talk about the creatures and people they encountered on the other side of Earth during the age of discovery.

Again, this sounds like an asspull of epic proportions. Heck, you're asspulling as we're going through this conversation.