Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[PotHockets]

They could, though it would probably feel rushed, not to mention it would be very odd to have the big announcement where players should be excited be hamstrung by not revealing plot points in future patches that will probably only show up in January.

It doesn't need to be anything other than some mystery or info where Avaloren takes focus. Best example I can think of is how FFXIV transitioned to Shadowbringers and the .5 part 1 and 2 mystery of the Scions getting knocked tf out somehow by something and that eventually leading into the First as a hook.

[Myrrh]

I’m pretty sure “We’re going to Kul’Tiras” carries far more weight than “We’re going to Avaloren”.

The weight of the announcement was not the point of discussion there and you know it. You made a claim that bfa zones had prior confirmation, and I disputed that. This is why people get annoyed conversing with you, goddamn.

[NikolaiShade]

oooo thats cool. Is the book pre-sundering?

yep, so no idea where theese places went

[Sondrelk]

Its strange because there was next to 0 buildup for the dragon isles. The only actual Ingame hint was from an expansion prior to 9.0, an island expedition quest that only stated that Wrathion was looking for it.

Other than the terminally online turbo nerds, did the average player know about the dragon isles? I'd argue not.

They probably did, given it was mentioned twice, the second time during a long questline where the purpose of the Dragon Aspects was a big theme.
First was during the Island expeditions, second was during the quest where you help Ebonhorn get a black dragon scale from Neltharions lair, and you can talk to a Black Talon Agent who reiterates that the Dragon Isles is a place you should keep an eye out for.

Both of those are magnitudes above a hidden book in a dungeon.

[Catastrophy349]

Im waiting for the "groundbreaking" evidence thats supposed to prove the images wrong

Wouldn't get your hopes up, unfortunately.

[ercarp]

Other than the terminally online turbo nerds, did the average player know about the dragon isles? I'd argue not.

You can't really even compare the two. Dragon Isles had existed since before Vanilla and was visible (and even labeled iirc) on some of the earlier maps. Even a more casual player would have at least heard of it in passing, and it was teased in-game during BfA. And as you'll recall, we didn't go immediately from BfA into DF despite the name drop, there was a shitty expansion in between the two.

Avaloren might be reasonable as a setting for 12.0 (after a bit more build-up throughout 11.0) but it's too soon for 11.0.

[milkmustache]

I claim the sacred number.

#44444

5 4's. 5x4=20. 20th Anniversary. 4 zones. 4 zone image confirmed. You've betrayed your #TeamWorldRevamp kin.

[Sondrelk]

I mean, for a vast amout of the playerbase any new place has no hook because the vast amount of players don't really care. Pandaria, Kul Tiras, Dragon isles, Avaloren, there's barely a difference really.

You have to assume a baseline level of engagement though, otherwise the discussion goes nowhere. There are probably loads of players who don't evne realize we are going to the Emerald Dream in a week since they didn't read quest text.

Having something mentioned in a quest, or in a prominent location, is far more buildup than random bits of fluff text like hidden books or trash items.

- - - Updated - - -

I claim the sacred number.

All hail Micwini, claimer of the quintquattro!

[Jastall]

Avaloren has barely been canon for a year. Your average player doesn't even know it exists, only the terminally online turbonerds like us know what's going on.

For the vast majority of the player base, there's no hook.

Starting to set up Avaloren as a potential future location is all fine and good, but it needs more build-up than this. What we have is basically nothing.

I doubt that means anything. The average player also had little idea Pandaria existed aside mayyyybe from panda memes and all the prior lore it had was that 1) it existed and 2) there's a panda that likes beer who comes from it. Same for the Shadowlands and Dragon Isles for that matter the latter of which was fairly deep lore whose only claim to fame were that they were cut vanilla content (among a lot of other stuff) and like one concept art. Broken Isles in WC2/3 have literally nothing to do with the ones in Legion aside from housing the Tomb of Sargeras. Heck pretty much nobody predicted time traveling Nazi Orcs with tanks but Blizzard went and did an expansion out of it anyway.

For me the question is less how much the setting of an expansion is developed prior to release, and more how well they flesh it out during said expansion. Even known places like Outland and Northrend were vastly fleshed during their expansion.

[Nibelheimy]

They probably did, given it was mentioned twice, the second time during a long questline where the purpose of the Dragon Aspects was a big theme.
First was during the Island expeditions, second was during the quest where you help Ebonhorn get a black dragon scale from Neltharions lair, and you can talk to a Black Talon Agent who reiterates that the Dragon Isles is a place you should keep an eye out for.

Both of those are magnitudes above a hidden book in a dungeon.

Granted I forgot the second example existed, by no means are they anyway magnitudes above as foreshadowing. My original point shows again, that it is nothing but preferential bias. There is no metric to measure if more average players knew if Di existed pre announcement than Avaloren in the same vein.

My point was also that Avaloren has a hook. Which it does. Whether people want to disparage that based on arbitrary nonexistent patters like an expansion must be foreshadowed for more than a year. Is up to them.

[keelr]

Has any expansion leaked by subdomain appearing out of nowhere on one of blizz's sites?

[ercarp]

After being to basically every known location now its about time we visit something new

As I said, I'm fine with them laying down the foundation for some new areas, but they still need the proper time to be built up. Adding a completely new zone no one's ever heard of into the lore and announcing it's the setting of the next expansion less than a year later is some of the worst world-building I've ever heard of.

[Sondrelk]

The average Andy in WOTLK didn't know about Deathwing either, the average Andy also didn't know about Pandas which is why the outcry was gigantic. After being to basically every known location now its about time we visit something new, the argument that a new location we know nothing about is no selling point for a new expansion is ridiculous.

It would still be new if we had more hints the next expansion, and 12.0 was a big "explore the west" expansion whose plot hook was finally seeing what all the fuzz was about and colonizing some new land.

[milkmustache]

Has any expansion leaked by subdomain appearing out of nowhere on one of blizz's sites?

Pretty sure that's how we got DF confirmation.

[Leowyld]

Wouldn't get your hopes up, unfortunately.

Yeah, it looks like the bombshell is a dud. Heh.

[Merryck]

I claim the sacred number.

It's too bad post 44444 doesn't occur on page 2222

[NoTimeToDie5426]

Red Shirt Guy mentioning some new locations from the new book:

Interesting! Harrowsdeep sounds cool. If we combine the meaning of Harrow (Plunder/Pillage) and Deep (obvious) we get Plundersdeep/Pillagedeep or the more practical Deep plunder. Could be something like an ancient chasm where the dragons keep their loot, or maybe something like a fissure filled with pirates/loot oriented individuals.

[Varodoc]

The antagonists are all that matter.

The average player who doesn't read quest texts didn't know that BfA was setting up Shadowlands with Sylvanas, Bwonsamdi, and Lich King dialogues.

But the average player loves Sylvanas and the Lich King, so they were sold as soon as they saw Sylvanas' boot in the first second of the cinematic.

All that matters are the antagonists.

All Blizzard needs to generate hype is show Azshara in the first shot of the teaser, because people love Azshara and she generates hype.

Then Blizzard can set their expansion in whatever asspulled island they came up with, Azshara will get people hooked in on the premise of the expansion.

[Chickat]

The Cinematic is Odyn opening with Heretics.. all of them.

It also includes a fight between Odyn and Tyr.

Tyr is wounded but lives.

Odyn leaves and heads for Avaloren with the Valajar.

[Nibelheimy]

In all honesty this is all giving me Pandaria vibes with the doomer takes.

If the expansion is Avaloren, we can only hope it's as good as Pandaria was.