Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Dioporco]

WoW has this "weakeness" that Metzen universe is so good that all the lore/stuff from Warcraft 1 to Vanilla is perfect for an RPG


You vs the World


No "hero of the cosmos vs cosmic force" so you have enough "previous" lore to expand or play around it if you cant make new one, and danuser show us what happens when they make NEW LORE


they kill the previous one and give us squidward

[Wangming]

That is common trend in WoW. Even Shadowlands and Draenor zones had decent side stories, but only time when main plot was both interesting and (relatively) coherent was Legion.

But it is logical, when you write side story you start with nothing and you can plan how it will end. If you write main story, you start with 30 years of mess (already retconed 5 times) and there is no end in sight.

True, but on the other hand if you know how to write a good story, you know how to write a good story.

Here is two stories for you.

1. FFXIV

- Natsuko Ishikawa writes the Dark Knight job story questline
- People love it
- Yoshi-P promotes Ishikawa to lead writer
- Ishikawa writes the Main Story for Shadowbringers
- ishikawa receives standing ovation at the next fanfest from players


2. WoW

- Danuser writes some shit
- The players complain about the story
- Danuser gets promoted
- Danuser writes more shit
- The players complain and mock his abilities
- Danuser gets promoted again.

[Nyel]

Another problem - if we indeed go to Avaloren (I hope not) - will be Tyr as a protagonist / antagonist. All of his storyline is heavily time- or renown-gated and doesn’t make any sense when you get drip-fed with it over several months or even more than that. That guy has basically no coherent persona and will leave major question marks for 99,9% of the players next expansion what his back story, motivations and agenda are / will be.

[Yunravel]

Drust epitomize wasted potential. Coolest new adversaries in a decade and they just abandon them. I had hopes they would tie in more with Ardenweald but they ended up halfassing even that. Thros sounded like a place that could fill an entire major content patch..

FOR REAL

When I really saw what Thros was, I was like... Wait... thats it ? Why are they burning their candles so quickly

[Neoplanet]

Another problem - if we indeed go to Avaloren (I hope not) - will be Tyr as a protagonist / antagonist. All of his storyline is heavily time- or renown-gated and doesn’t make any sense when you get drip-fed with it over several months or even more than that. That guy has basically no coherent persona and will leave major question marks for 99,9% of the players next expansion what his back story, motivations and agenda are / will be.

Tyr questilne need only renown 12/13 to start , but the last quest for now need you to the 10.1.7 post dawn of infinite nozdormu questiline , so yeah i got your point

I know this because i did it last week

[Wangming]

Drust epitomize wasted potential. Coolest new adversaries in a decade and they just abandon them. I had hopes they would tie in more with Ardenweald but they ended up halfassing even that. Thros sounded like a place that could fill an entire major content patch..

Oh for sure. Drust magic looked amazing and Drustvar as a zone was great.

[Moth Preacher]

Mueh'Zala vs Bwonsamdi could have been its own x.1.x patch lol

[Dioporco]

True, but on the other hand if you know how to write a good story, you know how to write a good story.

Here is two stories for you.

1. FFXIV

- Natsuko Ishikawa writes the Dark Knight job story questline
- People love it
- Yoshi-P promotes Ishikawa to lead writer
- Ishikawa writes the Main Story for Shadowbringers
- ishikawa receives standing ovation at the next fanfest from players


2. WoW

- Danuser writes some shit
- The players complain about the story
- Danuser gets promoted
- Danuser writes more shit
- The players complain and mock his abilities
- Danuser gets promoted again.

Also another issue is the "I did this because there is a greater evil" or the "puppeteer" syndrome in wow is going way off board

- - - Updated - - -

Oh for sure. Drust magic looked amazing and Drustvar as a zone was great.

An entire celtic/witches/wicca sub lore to expand



no dudes lets use a lazor to kill nzoth

[ImTheMizAwesome]

I don't like danuser stuff either, but we are sadly stuck with him.

At the same time i don't know exactly who wrote what in that team of writers, but since he's the narrative director then i guess he's the guy that makes decisions.

Besides him and christie golden i don't even know who is a part of narrative team.

[Makorus]

True, but on the other hand if you know how to write a good story, you know how to write a good story.

Here is two stories for you.

1. FFXIV

- Natsuko Ishikawa writes the Dark Knight job story questline
- People love it
- Yoshi-P promotes Ishikawa to lead writer
- Ishikawa writes the Main Story for Shadowbringers
- ishikawa receives standing ovation at the next fanfest from players


2. WoW

- Danuser writes some shit
- The players complain about the story
- Danuser gets promoted
- Danuser writes more shit
- The players complain and mock his abilities
- Danuser gets promoted again.

But nothing that Danuser actively wrote is shit.

Dragonflights issue is that it's just boring. The groundwork of Shadowlands was Afriasabi. There's only so much you can do to salvage that.

Plus, acting like he is the only writer is just hilarious. He's not even a writer anyway.

[Dioporco]

I don't like danuser stuff either, but we are sadly stuck with him.

At the same time i don't know exactly who wrote what in that team of writers, but since he's the narrative director then i guess he's the guy that makes decisions.

Besides him and christie golden i don't even know who is a part of narrative team.

metzen is back as executive creator so his opinion will be there

[Beerplz]

But nothing that Danuser actively wrote is shit.

Dragonflights issue is that it's just boring. The groundwork of Shadowlands was Afriasabi. There's only so much you can do to salvage that.

Plus, acting like he is the only writer is just hilarious. He's not even a writer anyway.

Speak for yourself , sorry but after Legion after has been DOGSHIT , in my humble opinion

[Harbour]

I went to sleep on page 2219, I got up on page 2266, my god, anything new ?

Mostly shit posting.
Some guy posted the snapchat screenshot of another location, saying 'Avaloren is waiting blah blah', but he had a pretty troll reddit account, so its probably fake.
Also some guy claimed he works at Blizzcon construction and he briefly saw the poster that looks somewhat like that.
He refused to do the photo of the nearby street as a proof though, so probably its a larper.
https://i.imgur.com/0A14raG.jpg

[Dioporco]

But nothing that Danuser actively wrote is shit.

Dragonflights issue is that it's just boring. The groundwork of Shadowlands was Afriasabi. There's only so much you can do to salvage that.

Plus, acting like he is the only writer is just hilarious. He's not even a writer anyway.

No please stop spread the BS about "IT WAS ALEX FAULT!!"£" because it isnt.

Danuser took from late Legion til now.

we clearly saw what happened

[Varodoc]

Funny because Warcraft 3 and TFT had better story than SL and BFA for sure

That's because those games were very clear about what the villains and antagonists want.

In RoC, the Legion want to destroy the world because they are evil demonic assholes, that's what they do. The Scourge want to kill everyone because they are evil undead necromancers, that's what they do.

The biggest revelation of the story, that the Legion engineered the Scourge to succeed where the orcs failed, was dropped midway through the story in one casual dialogue between Arthas and Kel'Thuzad.

In TFT, Kil'jaeden wants to destroy the Lich King because he betrayed him, the Lich King betrayed him because he himself is an evil asshole who doesn't want to serve, and Illidan does Kil'jaeden's bidding out of fear/ambition (Kil'jaeden promises him great power if he succeeds, threatens him if he fails). Daelin Proudmoore wants to kill the orcs because he doesn't want to forgive them for laying waste to his continent.

Simple antagonists, clear objectives, simple story. No BS "I was just secretly trying to save you all!!!!" twist, No BS "The Horde is nothing I actually serve Cosmic jailer and have 6000IQ secret masterplan!!!!" BS.

Do you know why Raszageth is easily the most liked and successful villain from SL and DF? Because she's a simple villain, with no twists and no BS. She's a crazy beast who wants to free her crazy brethren so that they can remake the world and get revenge on Titans. Instead of spending her screentime monologuing about some 1000IQ chess masterplan, she humiliates Wrathion and defeats Alexstrasza in a 1v1.

Blizzard needs to go back to villains that are badass on-screen, not villains who are "DECEPTIVELY CUNNING!!!". The first thing Archimonde does when he returns is destroy Dalaran in 1 minute. If he were written by Danuser, Archimonde would have instead spent the entire cinematic monologuing about how smart he is and how flawless his plan is and how he is just trying to save everyone from bigger fish.

[Wangming]

Also another issue is the "I did this because there is a greater evil" or the "puppeteer" syndrome in wow is going way off board

- - - Updated - - -



An entire celtic/witches/wicca sub lore to expand



no dudes lets use a lazor to kill nzoth

Yeah, celtic Vrykul vs settlers from Gilneas, wicker beasts, hags and shit. Cool concept for an expansion. How about we wrap it up in a zone.
But seriously the ones who write the gothic zones are always cooking.

As for the greater evil....there seems to be a very small list of motivations and grand plans

There is a greater evil

or

Void corruption

And the end result is either kill everyone or do something bad to the world soul.

Now imagine an evil who legitimately had friends in pre ordering Azeroth and wants those times back?
Or some bad guy who craves challenge and after fighting the hero they decide they want a rematch and just do nasty shit to create a sufficiently dramatic backdrop to their final duel?
Wouldn't that be refreshing for a change?

[blaatschaap]

Danuser is just a scapegoat for haters imo. They act like these days it's still one person making up the big storylines like it was in the old days with metzen. I wonder if shadowlands would have succeeded narratively if covid hadn't happened. Feel like a lot of corners got cut leading to "unearned" lore development.

[Dioporco]

BBBBBBUT ALEX HATE SYLVANAS AND MADE HER BURN THE TREE.

ok then how a LEAD NARRATIVE though 1. killing "arthas" legacy like that was a good idea? || 2. making 20 years of lore a "big plan" from a B movie no flavour robot was a good idea? || 3. Using again the "THERE IS ABIGGER EVIL SO I ACTED LIKE THAAAT" was a good idea?


please

[Shadowferal]

Why the hell do they put all of their storytelling into lore books and not in game so everybody can at least experience it? It‘s such a horrible take to have all these characters that make not much sense in game just to see they got a personality, but only when you’re consuming 100 different mediums for lore.

Money. Developing quests/rewards' systems that dole out the ingame texts that structure storylines is less cost effective that making and convincing you to buy a book.

At least that's how I see it.

[Jaggler]

Speak for yourself , sorry but after Legion after has been DOGSHIT , in my humble opinion

But most of that was already in place. Afrasiabi was letz go in 2020. Metzen left in 2016 and was still involved in the BfA cinematic, so you can guess the timeframes we are woking with here. Not saying Danuser is somekind of mastermind, but in the end he was left with the the broken pieces of the whole mess.