Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nyel]

it does say the image has been removed by the moderators of wow but i'm not that familiar with reddit

Oh, didn’t show that for me on mobile, sorry.

[Dioporco]

Lets see if Metzen + Microsoft can shift Blizzard from "bland lore + force people buying the book instead of making it in the lore" towards "the lore is in game but the books have a deep dive"

[Floot]

I think it is pretty much this. It is always easy to just pick someone in a leadership position and project your disappointment (people's dislike for Danuser pales to the ire Ghostcrawler received). The thing is, Danuser made some very poor choices with his public posts (really, his Sylvanas post is peak cringe) that just made it easier for part of the community to target him.
As for Afrasiabi, a different part of the community has decided to scapegoat everything on him because he was fired for being a horrible creep.
I don't think we've ever had a clear view of how story is designed in WoW though and how centralized it is so it is hard to blame one specific purpose. That said I will assume that Danuser as the narrative director atm does have finally say on the main storyline. Which I just don't find impressive. As for SL my personal view is, if you are handed a story and you have to finish it, just go for what is already there, don't try to twist it around. It is very hard to do a good job at changing the narrative. If it is really bad, finish it conclusively and just move on.

Too much of the storylines feel heavily inspired by the thought of: "How can we make sure Warcraft won't be a bad influence on children playing it, and also can we throw in some more token characters without any purpose or depth?"

[ercarp]

Maybe Danuser is just such a people pleaser that he can't bring himself to say "no" when the other writers come to him with terrible ideas. Which doesn't make him a bad person, but it does mean he's not the best fit for his job.

[Nymrohd]

Too much of the storylines feel heavily inspired by the thought of: "How can we make sure Warcraft won't be a bad influence on children playing it, and also can we throw in some more token characters without any purpose or depth?"

I don't think the tokenism affects the narrative. I don't see it as decent representation but there is nothing about it that really affects the story for me. It's not like the story is bending around to make room for it, it's all in side stories.

[Dioporco]

Also i find infuriating that random posters like us can come up with a better lore than multi billion company lead writers or directors.


Just my 2 cent

[Gwynvael]

Even if Alex decided to shit on Sylvanas because she reminded him her ex.

Danuser still managed to write OR APPROVE :

1. BFA
2. Nzoth Storyline LMAO
3. Shadowlands
4. Jailer MEGAMIND 5CHESS PLAN to kill the current 20y old Lore
5. Spit on Arthas legacy like that


So...

Gonna have to agree with this one chiefs. Everything Danuser even slightly touches turns to big steaming pile of sh!t. I could accept the ending of BfA, but SL was the first expansion that actually managed to remove more than add. It's peak, unbridled crap taken all over Warcraft universe.

[Floot]

Maybe Danuser is just such a people pleaser that he can't bring himself to say "no" when the other writers come to him with terrible ideas. Which doesn't make him a bad person, but it does mean he's not the best fit for his job.

It's probably dangerous nowadays to say "no" when your writers come with the suggestion to add another token character or plotline to the story...

[Dioporco]

Maybe Danuser is just such a people pleaser that he can't bring himself to say "no" when the other writers come to him with terrible ideas. Which doesn't make him a bad person, but it does mean he's not the best fit for his job.

EXACTLY.


"HEY WHAT IS JAILER IS THE MAIN PUPPET MASTER OF THE ENTIRE LORE????? AND HE IS A ROBOT!"

normal answer would be : are you r-word and or having a stroke? free your desk before 3 PM



but danuser probably says "wow amazing idea" hoping they will invite him to the pizza night or whatever

[micwini]

Maybe Danuser is just such a people pleaser that he can't bring himself to say "no" when the other writers come to him with terrible ideas. Which doesn't make him a bad person, but it does mean he's not the best fit for his job.

Not being able to say 'no' DOES make you a bad person. Hopefully I don't need to give examples.

[Jodmos]

Maybe Danuser is just such a people pleaser that he can't bring himself to say "no" when the other writers come to him with terrible ideas. Which doesn't make him a bad person, but it does mean he's not the best fit for his job.

Taliesin has said that the blizzard narrative folks like Danuser because he's very open to them coming with ideas so this might not be too far from the truth..

[Nymrohd]

Even if Alex decided to shit on Sylvanas because she reminded him her ex.

Danuser still managed to write OR APPROVE :

1. BFA
2. Nzoth Storyline LMAO
3. Shadowlands
4. Jailer MEGAMIND 5CHESS PLAN to kill the current 20y old Lore
5. Spit on Arthas legacy like that


So...

Danuser did not write BfA. He probably did not have creative control before 8.3 started. The really offensive part of 8.3 is really the ending cinematic and how they choose to kill N'zoth; they absolutely WOULD kill him regardless. That said it is atrocious; they wanted to somehow involve the player themselves in the cinematic and if that was the best they could do then they should have fallen back and found a different way to finish things.

But yeah, I think he did have the time to make significant changes to SL if he wanted to.

[Beerplz]

Metzen also had issues especially in Cata... an interivew i watched of him a few years ago where he said Thralls story in Cataclysm really reflected his IRL situatuion , going through a hard divorse etc.. and he still managed to write Thrall in decent way (compared to what Danuser is doing)

[Floot]

I don't think the tokenism affects the narrative. I don't see it as decent representation but there is nothing about it that really affects the story for me. It's not like the story is bending around to make room for it, it's all in side stories.

The sudden "inclusivity" storyline of the night elves feels a bit hamfisted, and it makes them poorer and less interesting of a race for it.
They do it with a lot of the races... It creates a lack of cultural diversity among the different warcraft races. For me this is the biggest issue with the story.

But other than that... almost every storyline in Warcraft seems to end with the people who really love peace coming out on top. The entire Horde leadership got replaced with more pacifist underlings. Personally, I think that is the second biggest issue with the story.

Imagine there is a perfect representation of a human being as envisioned by the United Nations or Amnesty International... This same mold seems to be getting applied to too many characters, and these are the characters that always win in the end.

[Nymrohd]

Taliesin has said that the blizzard narrative folks like Danuser because he's very open to them coming with ideas so this might not be too far from the truth..

Sad reality; in any corporate environment group politics can play a disproportionate role in promotions over actual skill and results.
If anything though, it means this is not Danuser's fault; the entire team is responsible.

[Hitei]

Also i find infuriating that random posters like us can come up with a better lore than multi billion company lead writers or directors.


Just my 2 cent

Lmao. That's a pretty hilarious take from someone who just finished suggesting Ardenweald should've been about how "Bobsamdi" ghosted the Winter Queen after they hooked up.

[Harbour]

I hope with Metzen WoW will go back to just telling the interesting stories and writing fleshed out characters arcs.
I miss that.
I remember doing Ret Paladin quest line about Odyn and Skovald, and it completely changed my mind about the latter.
It was such a tragic story, and both characters shone.
DF and SL had very little of that. Its mostly lessons, messages, symbols, token characters, with no substance and without just telling good story.
At the same time Odyn and Skovald managed to do both while also making me feel feelings. Thats whats important. Hope 11.0 and following narrative will come back to that effective formula.

[Nymrohd]

Metzen also had issues especially in Cata... an interivew i watched of him a few years ago where he said Thralls story in Cataclysm really reflected his IRL situatuion , going through a hard divorse etc.. and he still managed to write Thrall in decent way (compared to what Danuser is doing)

Yikes. Sorry but Cata Thrall was horrible. The character still has not recovered from abandoning any pride in himself and being subsumed by a culture he wasn't even raised in, forced to forsake his name and his role trying to deal with his orc pretender syndrome instead of dealing with the fact that he is a unique individual.

[Xilurm]

The sudden "inclusivity" storyline of the night elves feels a bit hamfisted, and it makes them poorer and less interesting of a race for it.
They do it with a lot of the races... It creates a lack of cultural diversity among the different warcraft races. For me this is the biggest issue with the story.

But other than that... almost every storyline in Warcraft seems to end with the people who really love peace coming out on top. The entire Horde leadership got replaced with more pacifist underlings. Personally, I think that is the second biggest issue with the story.

Can't agree more with this. I also don't understand why they chose to tell this story through the Night Elves. I thought having a matriarchal society would be good, but instead they're trying to make them all equal. It was so preachy too, with Maiev mentioning multiple times how traditions had to change and even Tyrande herself sending you a mail writing the exact same thing. Men and women aren't equals in the Night Elven society and it should stay that way. /shrug

[micwini]

Lmao. That's a pretty hilarious take from someone who just finished suggesting Ardenweald should've been about how "Bobsamdi" ghosted the Winter Queen after they hooked up.

True, but he is also right. Notable mentions include:
- N'zoth tricked us and he's not dead. Could still happen but would be weird after we've had 2 expansions or more.
- The Primus is the actual Jailer