Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Raetary]

That's not really true, is it.

Tyrande, Malfurion and Illidan all grew up in Suramar.

How is it not true?

Hyjal and its surroundings have been the home for the Night elves since before they even became elves.
They are quite literally as well as figuratively from that region, and they have never ever left it.

That individual characters are born in places other than Hyjal does not change that fact.

[Pheraz]

I don't really get the issue with having the tree in the Dragon isles when the end of shadowlands already hints to this. They're looking for a place where it can grow safely hidden from danger and Merithra is the one to know the right place. We'll see if there are some interesting stories to be told for the tree after this cinematic but honestly that could be the end of the thread.

I can ofc only speak for myself. There is indeed no logical problem or a problem in the story plot leading to this. But that the dragon isles will prbly be irrelevant once the next xpac comes (if we aren't hit by an asteroid by then :P). Just all races have their capitals on the old zones and you can go there by flight master except the night elves being locked in the dragon isles. At least this is my problem, UNLESS they finally manage to utilize the dragon isles to play a role in the future, which I highly doubt.

I mean why couldn't the story be that the night elves slaughter half of the orcs on kalimdor and grow their tree right in their orc faces? Which would make the night elves ofc the baddies. Would be a lot more interesting, in my opinion. Also it makes all those dozens of little night elf hubs completely strange in the old zones. I won't count them all but there are really a lot of them. Also, there is a high change that I am wrong and it all turns out to be fine.

[Luck4]

I think the issue with this whole storyline that it's dragged out for so long in real time that expectations have grown more and more over it, and every step along the way has come with some sort of setback to the night elves. In the past year, we've gotten positively received and positively framed storylines for undead, orcs, and tauren, alongside an underwhelming human questline and ongoing night elf suffering porn: things have definitely skewed in the Horde's direction on top of the faction imbalance becoming dire enough to dictate more cross-faction systems. I can understand trepidation that the climax to this ~5 year plot is going to end with even more misery or the belief that the writing team doesn't care much for the Alliance outside of a certain MIA faction leader.

Horde favoritism is still a thing even after all these years and all the dev team changes, and also despite the factions being blurred. It's hopeless...

[Lahis]

They are THE Life race, and the Dragons are majority-rules also a Life species (Red and Green) on the closest thing to the Life Island. It does make some sense even if the lore isn't there outside of the connection between Greens and Nelves.

Also, when the Oracle in Zereth Mortis was first activated, she spoke in different languages related to cosmic forces before she found one the player understood:

The player is seen lifting from the ground. The haze is thicker than ever, and there are now clear patterns pulsating around the screen. Saezurah is seen floating in the tunnel out of Exile's Hollow. Her voice is an echoing whisper.

Saezurah says: (Titanic) Midnir.

The player begins to float after her. The screen flashes and the scene changes, showing Saezurah floating over Faith's Repose just outside. Her voice becomes louder and clearer.

Saezurah says: (Draconic) Rethul.

Another flash and scenery change: the Great Veldt.

Saezurah says: (Demonic) Kasharu.

The road near the Terrace of Formation.

Saezurah says: (Shath'Yar) An'qoth.

Zovaal's Grasp. Her voice is very clear now. The camera drastically zooms in on her head.

Saezurah says: Vessel.

The camera cuts to the player's face.

Saezurah says: Vessel.

And back to the oracle.

Saezurah says: Vessel.
Saezurah guides the player to the Resonant Peaks and shows them a closed vault at the top.
Saezurah says: Dormant above the sands.
Saezurah says: The song seeks a voice.
Saezurah says: Ascend.
Saezurah says: Reclaim.
Saezurah says: Restore.

She is calling for Vessel in different languages. Titanic is clearly Order, Demonic is Disorder, and Aht'Yar is Void. Dunno if it was the Language of Death or First Ones the PC finally understood, but the Dragonic here is interesting. Of the two remaining options, Draconic being the langauge of Life makes more sense than for it to be Light language.

Also telling of the nature of the First Ones that she first spoke in Titanic.

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I kinda like that the tree is in the Dragon Isles idk? I love the idea of dragonriding from it and towards it. Plus, from the leak, it's looking gorgeous. I hope we get a bit of an Arcan'dor type deal where we see it develop over time.

And those early build screenshots are just done with generic Ohn'aran plains tree model. Probably just to get the sense of scale for the proper tree. Proper Ardenweald and Dream blessed tree will look even better.

[Luck4]

I don't really get the issue with having the tree in the Dragon isles when the end of shadowlands already hints to this.

The issue is that the new tree is supposed to be the new Night Elf capital/main hub, and Dragon Isles has nothing to do with the Night Elf/Kal'dorei civilization. This new World Tree will be just another random World Tree like Andrassil/Vordrassil and Shaladrassil.

The only hope left now is if we get some confirmation that the Night Elves took Nordrassil to be their new capital/main hub, and it's no longer neutral. That would be a good exchange, even if it's not displayed ingame.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I can ofc only speak for myself. There is indeed no logical problem or a problem in the story plot leading to this. But that the dragon isles will prbly be irrelevant once the next xpac comes (if we aren't hit by an asteroid by then :P). Just all races have their capitals on the old zones and you can go there by flight master except the night elves being locked in the dragon isles. At least this is my problem, UNLESS they finally manage to utilize the dragon isles to play a role in the future, which I highly doubt.

I mean why couldn't the story be that the night elves slaughter half of the orcs on kalimdor and grow their tree right in their orc faces? Which would make the night elves ofc the baddies. Would be a lot more interesting, in my opinion. Also it makes all those hundreds of little night elf hubs completely strange in the old zones. I won't count them all but there are really a lot of them. Also, there is a high change that I am wrong and it all turns out to be fine.

Because there's no point to it other then to satisfy bloodthirsty nelf fans who quite frankly need to take a step back. I also don't think Nelves would appreciate being made the baddies either(I don't want that either, more rabbid fans would take that negatively even if they got their home back) in Kalimdor and did what you suggested. I would also like to point out before someone strawmans me,no I don't expect Nelves to just take it and not respond to losing their home or whatever. That doesn't mean you just repeat the cycle of violence.

As for somehow Nelves finding new home elsewhere compared to what their native homeland used to be= Pro colonialism/Profascism. Like can we give it a fucking rest, I am anti Fascist but that literally is not the first thing I think of. Technically Night Elves first home is Suramar and the area near the Well of Eternity and such. We don't need to always look at video games through a hyper political Lense. I do not believe that is what the post Afriasbi wow team is trying to tell. "But the scandal" Yeah the scandal happened but that doesn't mean the general employee vibe is all about the colonialism and facism, take a step back(Pheraz I wasn't directing the take a step back stuff to you personally).

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The only hope left now is if we get some confirmation that the Night Elves took Nordrassil to be their new capital/main hub, and it's no longer neutral. That would be a good exchange, even if it's not displayed ingame.

We actually got that confirmation in shadows rising with only the the horde in the CC allowed in Hyjal because they took no part in the war and sided with the night elfs after it.

Rather it will stay that way or ever get updated in game is any ones guess.

[Gurahk]

Horde favoritism is still a thing even after all these years and all the dev team changes, and also despite the factions being blurred. It's hopeless...

I want to know where all this favoritism was during Legion, BfA or Shadowlands.

[Cheezits]

The issue is that the new tree is supposed to be the new Night Elf capital/main hub, and Dragon Isles has nothing to do with the Night Elf/Kal'dorei civilization. This new World Tree will be just another random World Tree like Andrassil/Vordrassil and Shaladrassil.

The only hope left now is if we get some confirmation that the Night Elves took Nordrassil to be their new capital/main hub, and it's no longer neutral. That would be a good exchange, even if it's not displayed ingame.

If the Night Elves keep Nordrassil and Hyjal as a hub, then the New Tree is an EXPANSION of their civilization, not a reduction.

Between Hyjal, Val'sharah and this new World Tree, the Nelves have several active seats of power around the world now. They're really just missing a seat in EK but that may be Gilneas, as affiliates.

I think the status of Hyjal is the sticking point here but in the books its at least, as mentioned, Ally and CC only pre-timeskip.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Also telling of the nature of the First Ones that she first spoke in Titanic.

In that they're a poorly-conceived knockoff of the Titans?

[Lahis]

In that they're a poorly-conceived knockoff of the Titans?

That they are the Order Pantheon from the previous universe that got completely fucked over once Order won the cosmic war, throwing the universe into imbalance, which they now try to prevent after picking up the pieces and by, ironically, ordering the cosmic forces into different Zereth controlled systems to keep up the balance.

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Are you guys being serious right now?

Like, are you actually unaware that today's Hyjal area is just one corner of the former Kaldorei Empire? The one remnant they had left after the rest of it crumbled?

The Dark Trolls that became the first Night Elves did so around the Well of Eternity, which sat right in the middle of ancient Kalimdor.

Now yes, Mount Hyjal has been and remains significant throughout most of their history, because that's where Cenarius would hang out. But for the Night Elven people in general, their ancestral home is much more than simply the forests around that particular mountain.

Zin'Ashari was blown into the bottom of the Ocean with much of the central lands around it, Suramar casted the biggest Bubble in the history, and whatever they had on the eastern side fo Kalimdor was pretty much gone after the war.

Whatever was left from Kaldorei ancestral lands after the Sundering was mostly around Hyjal. Eldre Thalas in south was Highborne city they abandoned once they yeeted the Highborne across the new sea.

[Luck4]

We actually got that confirmation in shadows rising with only the the horde in the CC allowed in Hyjal because they took no part in the war and sided with the night elfs after it.

Rather it will stay that way or ever get updated in game is any ones guess.

I see, but the main problem is the Cenarion Circle because it's the same situation we had with the Kirin Tor/Dalaran, and down the line the hub can become neutral again because of this neutral faction.

Anyway, thank you for this information.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Are you guys being serious right now?

Like, are you actually unaware that today's Hyjal area is just one corner of the former Kaldorei Empire? The one remnant they had left after the rest of it crumbled?

The Dark Trolls that became the first Night Elves did so around the Well of Eternity, which sat right in the middle of ancient Kalimdor.

Now yes, Mount Hyjal has been and remains significant throughout most of their history, because that's where Cenarius would hang out. But for the Night Elven people in general, their ancestral home is much more than simply the forests around that particular mountain.

for the nights we have had since WC3 there ancestral home is the area around Hyjal with only a handful coming from Suamar.

The race as a whole might have evolved around the well but the ones who lived there manly became Naga and aren’t relevant to playable night elfs who have always lived around hyjal.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

That they are the Order Pantheon from the previous universe that got completely fucked over once Order won the cosmic war, throwing the universe into imbalance, which they now try to prevent after picking up the pieces and by, ironically, ordering the cosmic forces into different Zereth controlled systems to keep up the balance.

Ah, so the Watsonian to the Doylist. That's actually not a terrible idea, and could turn the irrevocable fucking that the First Ones gave the lore into a quasi-revocable fucking. Making them into a previous iteration of the Pantheon of Order isn't actually a terrible idea at all—it would resolve plenty of the problems their introduction entailed, and would also expand the scope of the Cosmic Forces plotline to make it less mind-numbingly idiotic, putting everything back at the point where it was semi-sensible. Unfortunately, the team presently seems set in their ways, and I highly doubt anything that makes even remote sense will reflect what future canon.

[Skytotem]

Are you guys being serious right now?

Like, are you actually unaware that today's Hyjal area is just one corner of the former Kaldorei Empire? The one remnant they had left after the rest of it crumbled?

The Dark Trolls that became the first Night Elves did so around the Well of Eternity, which sat right in the middle of ancient Kalimdor.

Now yes, Mount Hyjal has been and remains significant throughout most of their history, because that's where Cenarius would hang out. But for the Night Elven people in general, their ancestral home is much more than simply the forests around that particular mountain.

Ehhh, their lore ever since the War of the Ancients was about the Forests of Kalimdor and protecting the Well and Tree, that should be their center of power.

Ideally Blizz turns Hyjal into a nelf zone in any revamp.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I see, but the main problem is the Cenarion Circle because it's the same situation we had with the Kirin Tor/Dalaran, and down the line the hub can become neutral again because of this neutral faction.

Anyway, thank you for this information.

The CC might not be as Neutral as it once was given Malf is the leader and even the horde members were openly disgusted with the rest of the horde I believe even insulting Thrall and co when they set up a meeting.

Who knows if that will keep up though.

[Luck4]

If the Night Elves keep Nordrassil and Hyjal as a hub, then the New Tree is an EXPANSION of their civilization, not a reduction.

Between Hyjal, Val'sharah and this new World Tree, the Nelves have several active seats of power around the world now. They're really just missing a seat in EK but that may be Gilneas, as affiliates.

These are Cenarion Circle hubs though, a faction that's neutral and composed of multiple races, including Horde members.

And Gilneas still remains contested/abandoned.

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Who knows if that will keep up though.

That's the point, it already happened with Dalaran.

[Shadowferal]

Because there's no point to it other then to satisfy bloodthirsty nelf fans who quite frankly need to take a step back.

When did the "World of Warcraft" become "Turn the other Cheek?"

[Cheezits]

Ah, so the Watsonian to the Doylist. That's actually not a terrible idea, and could turn the irrevocable fucking that the First Ones gave the lore into a quasi-revocable fucking. Making them into a previous iteration of the Pantheon of Order isn't actually a terrible idea at all—it would resolve plenty of the problems their introduction entailed, and would also expand the scope of the Cosmic Forces plotline to make it less mind-numbingly idiotic, putting everything back at the point where it was semi-sensible. Unfortunately, the team presently seems set in their ways, and I highly doubt anything that makes even remote sense will reflect what future canon.

The fact that the Titans were apparently close enough to the First Ones to access their own Zereth (Ordos) and leave without causing much of a fuss already sets up that they are likely handpicked to be their successors. I don't think the similarities between the two were overt laziness, especially when the expansion immediately after (DF) has a big titan focus that points out their aesthetic similarities. Definitely seems to be on purpose.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

When did the "World of Warcraft" become "Turn the other Cheek?"

Technically at launch given that all the WC3 factions made “peace” and weren’t actually at war at all in classic-tbc with the faction war only starting in wrath.