Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I hope that Blizzard introduces the paladin leap ability, Wings of Liberty, that was datamined on the 10.07 PTR. We sprout wings during Avenging Wrath, but we can't use them for mobility? NPC paladins leap all of the time in Warcraft. Tirion at the Battle of Light's Hope Chapel and at the climax of WotLK. Turalyon can leap during Argus questing, and his son Arathor can leap as a paladin class order hall follower. And that's not touching upon other official art, TCG art, novels and short stories, etc.






Before people fearmonger about "Paladin would have too much mobility if it had Divine Steed and a leap!", I would just make the WoL leap a mutually exclusive talent choice with Divine Steed. You have one or the other but not both. Let people pick the movement option and fantasy that appeals to them.

Divine Steed isn't a satisfying ability IMO. In PvP you always get snared, so you have to pop Blessing of Freedom too (which is usually dispelled or stolen within a couple seconds), and you are likely to get yanked back by a Death Knight's grip anyway after you spent 5 seconds slowly running away. By the time Divine Steed's duration has ended, I am no further away than where I had started. Riding a galloping horse might be romantic but you only get that if you are a human or a blood elf. Tauren ride around on a Kodo, which just doesn't have the same charm. Furthermore, I cannot customize the look of the Divine Steed mount. The blue and leather Kodo doesn't match my character. If I had to ride a Kodo I'd rather be able to ride around on my Vicious War Kodo. I only find Divine Steed to be useful when carrying a flag and for some reason there are no enemies around to intercept me.

Mechanically, perhaps the WoL leap could be charged like Yrel's leap in HotS. Hold down the button and your character begins priming to jump, your jump radius and damage is increasing the longer you hold the button.




Would also be nice if Paladin could get a knockback talent. Another common ability seen by NPCs and in Warcraft art. Maybe give Crusader Strike or Hammer of Wrath a knockpack while Avenging Wrath is active.

- - - Updated - - -

I still don't get why Jaina, Baine and Thrall had to be there for Shadowlands.

To me, the issue is that after WoD, the new Blizzard has failed to make me care about any of their new characters. I don't care about the allied race leaders, or the jack sparrow guy from Kul'Tiras, or the Covenant characters, or the Dragonflight NPCs like the centaurs of Tuskurr chieftainess and so on. To care about a story, you have to care about the characters. Story is character. If you don't care about the characters, then you're just standing around tapping your finger waiting for the next spectacle moment to happen. Without characters I do care about - characters who were built up when the old Blizzard cared and got me invested in them, characters like Thrall and Jaina - then I wouldn't have bothered reading the quest text at all or listening to the dialogue at all. I would have muted and windowed the game and would have been watching a show or a Youtube video.

- - - Updated - - -

In MoP, she was effectively replaced with a wholly different character. Though it may have been interesting in theory to see her devotion to peace tested, her portrayal since then became increasingly schizophrenic.

Someone on another forum observed that how Christie Golden envisioned Jaina (more as a good, kind hearted woman) in the novels in between expansions differed from how Blizzard's quest designers presented her ingame (purge of Dalaran, her harsh words to Khadgar during WoD, her depiction in Legion and BFA). It seems that it wasn't until Shadowlands that we got to see kind hearted Jaina back (maybe because Golden accrued enough influence within Blizzard? Golden joined during BFA, but who knows how much sway she had. Metzen was the creative lead and yet he didn't have the final say over everything that happened).

- - - Updated - - -

In such a case, the Dragon Isles could turn as the new leveling experience for new players

Dragonflight questing would be a worse new player experience than BFA, IMO. A player's first impressions would be that they are playing through an incredibly bland fantasy, fighting lava monsters and dragons and yadda yadda yadda, alongside characters they don't give a hoot about. A newcomer without a shred of prior investment in the old Warcraft lore of the dragonflights or the ancient old god/titan world would quickly get bored and realize that they could get a better generic fantasy experience downloading other games off of Steam or turning on Netflix or reading a D&D pulp novel. BFA's questing experience at least has the fantasy war theme in the background, which is rarer in visual media, and has the unique Warcraft troll aesthetic. Stuff that a player won't really find anywhere else.

- - - Updated - - -

Dragon Isles will be the new 10 to 70 levelling zone next expansion regardless of what happens in 11.0. The story is simply more up to date (and not complete bullshit like Shadowlands) than BFA.

The actual questing gameplay of BFA, Shadowlands, and Dragonflight were all relatively boring compared to Cata/MoP/WoD zone questlines. Shadowlands had unique visual appeal which might glue a newcomer more than Dragonflight. A newcomer also wouldn't have prior investment in Warcraft's lore and thus wouldn't be bothered by Shadowland's lore abortions anyway.

- - - Updated - - -

Exile's Reach followed by the Dragon Isles.

Exile's Reach is already a terrible introduction to the Warcraft universe. It doesn't get the player invested into their racial or faction identity. It's just a generic D&D adventure when numerous and better generic D&D adventure already exist, and you want to immediately follow it up with more generic and mediocre fantasy adventure questing?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

We don't know what the actual cost of Classic expansions is, and we don't know what people said in the 2022 poll about Cata Classic. We will know, when they decide to launch or not launch it.

I don't see the point in a Cataclysm classic. The point of vanilla servers is to recapture the experience of vanilla, which is fundamentally different from retail. Cataclysm is not fundamentally different from retail. It's the same game. No Cataclysm content has been removed from retail either. The only point in a Cataclysm server would be to do Cata raids with other people without decimating the content, but really that could be addressed by Blizzard getting off their butts and just instituting a roulette system like FFXIV where players can queue and land any dungeon or raid in the game's library of two decades of content, rather than only ocassionally seeing a Timewalking weekend for a specific expansion usually not getting any good rewards from it and rarely seeing a timewalking raid either (and even then it's only a handful of raids).

[Nymrohd]

Would also be nice if Paladin could get a knockback talent. Another common ability seen by NPCs and in Warcraft art. Maybe give Crusader Strike or Hammer of Wrath a knockpack while Avenging Wrath is active.

Imo Divine Steed should get the Steed of Glory PvP talent as a normal talent option and have it as a choice node with the Draw and Quarter rune from D3 (you chain mobs you run through with Divine Steed and drag them with you).

[Sondrelk]

I don't see the point in a Cataclysm classic. The point of vanilla servers is to recapture the experience of vanilla, which is fundamentally different from retail. Cataclysm is not fundamentally different from retail. It's the same game. No Cataclysm content has been removed from retail either. The only point in a Cataclysm server would be to do Cata raids with other people without decimating the content, but really that could be addressed by Blizzard getting off their butts and just instituting a roulette system like FFXIV where players can queue and land any dungeon or raid in the game's library of two decades of content, rather than only ocassionally seeing a Timewalking weekend for a specific expansion usually not getting any good rewards from it and rarely seeing a timewalking raid either (and even then it's only a handful of raids).

Cataclysm is basically the same experience as WotLK in terms of gameplay, and yet noone seems to really care that modern WoW more or less began with WotLK.

There are no good arguments against Cataclysm Classic, that couldn't also apply to WotLK Classic. The only argument that comes close is that WotLK was much more popular than Cata was.

[Pheraz]

What blizzard needs for a successfull expansion is a good theme and no b*llshit ideas like azerite gear.

At this point everything beside a partial or full world revamp looks super clueless to me. I hope the tree is not a bad sign and I hope that they don't create some weird a**pull again like WoD, even though the night elf super nerd in me would love a time travel xpac to ancient kalimdor

I hope we see soon where the main story is going. Currently there is not much being discovered by data miners

[Aeluron Lightsong]

On the old world. In general I want the Old World to be updated but since that is a lot of effort and resources, I am wary of Blizzard going to do it. If it had the tools to revamp the old world without too much effort I'd say get on with it but you get the point.

[huth]

Why can't Azeroth be fully HD and newly revamped?

Because it's a waste of resources and will be outdated again come the next expansion.

[Fahrad Wagner]

Because it's a waste of resources and will be outdated again come the next expansion.

No it's not, and no it wouldn't. I've been playing WoD, Legion and BfA lately. Those expansion feel fresh and not outdated at all. The only outdated thing are the cinematics in general.

[Makorus]

Because it's a waste of resources and will be outdated again come the next expansion.

Just like most expansion?

[huth]

Just like most expansion?

The latter, yes. The former, not so much except for Cataclysm (duh).

[Darkarath]

I really like DF, but as a very casual player these days, I have to say that I spent most of my WoW time in old content. It is just so relaxing to kill stuf easily while farming mounts, pets, reps...

As I have previously stated, a world revamp CANNOT destroy current continents.

[Nymrohd]

What blizzard needs for a successfull expansion is a good theme and no b*llshit ideas like azerite gear.

At this point everything beside a partial or full world revamp looks super clueless to me. I hope the tree is not a bad sign and I hope that they don't create some weird a**pull again like WoD, even though the night elf super nerd in me would love a time travel xpac to ancient kalimdor

I hope we see soon where the main story is going. Currently there is not much being discovered by data miners

I can't see how Ancient Kalimdor could be done. It's fucking massive, probably more than double an old world revamp in size and what would their excuse even be for keeping us in the 4-5 zones they want us in?
I'd love us to be able to visit places in the past but only in a limited format where we get in and out. I think Cavern of Times could easily be the base of something like that; remake it using all the assets from the Temporal Conflux, move all the TW things there and if it was up to me; add a solo to small group scenario content with power ups similar to Torghast that sends us through the timeways to numerous locations in Azeroth's pasts or alternate futures, reusing existing mobs and assets and even full maps to create a lot of variety. Send us to important events and have us fight as part of different forces while also stopping the Infinites. Make it a scaling difficulty like M+, fill it with cosmetics and let it award gear through the Vault but limited to HC ilvl since it can be done solo.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I can't see how Ancient Kalimdor could be done. It's fucking massive, probably more than double an old world revamp in size and what would their excuse even be for keeping us in the 4-5 zones they want us in?
I'd love us to be able to visit places in the past but only in a limited format where we get in and out. I think Cavern of Times could easily be the base of something like that; remake it using all the assets from the Temporal Conflux, move all the TW things there and if it was up to me; add a solo to small group scenario content with power ups similar to Torghast that sends us through the timeways to numerous locations in Azeroth's pasts or alternate futures, reusing existing mobs and assets and even full maps to create a lot of variety. Send us to important events and have us fight as part of different forces while also stopping the Infinites. Make it a scaling difficulty like M+, fill it with cosmetics and let it award gear through the Vault but limited to HC ilvl since it can be done solo.

Ancient Kalimdor would be an expansion at most but still have issues. I think the only way that would work is if the right tech allowed for faster creation of landscape/terrain to really show how big the continent was. Doesn't help that most races didn't exist in that timeframe. Sure they could turn everyone into Nelves or other race for story purposes but I am not confident that is a good sell to people. I could tolerate it I suppose but again, hard sell for the masses.


Edit: I mean I could be proven wrong but this is based on what I see Blizzard can do.

[Nymrohd]

Ancient Kalimdor would be an expansion at most but still have issues. I think the only way that would work is if the right tech allowed for faster creation of landscape/terrain to really show how big the continent was. Doesn't help that most races didn't exist in that timeframe. Sure they could turn everyone into Nelves or other race for story purposes but I am not confident that is a good sell to people. I could tolerate it I suppose but again, hard sell for the masses.


Edit: I mean I could be proven wrong but this is based on what I see Blizzard can do.

I could see instead an AU version where Azshara finds a way to change history and retain her empire and we land in the middle of it, find some rebellion against her and join it. Something in which EVERYONE is our enemy.

[username993720]

I hope that Blizzard introduces the paladin leap ability, Wings of Liberty, that was datamined on the 10.07 PTR. We sprout wings during Avenging Wrath, but we can't use them for mobility? NPC paladins leap all of the time in Warcraft. Tirion at the Battle of Light's Hope Chapel and at the climax of WotLK. Turalyon can leap during Argus questing, and his son Arathor can leap as a paladin class order hall follower. And that's not touching upon other official art, TCG art, novels and short stories, etc.

It's called Falling Sword in D3.
If anything, they should copy more of this RPG's abilities into Wow.

[Alanar]

I hope that Blizzard introduces the paladin leap ability, Wings of Liberty, that was datamined on the 10.07 PTR. We sprout wings during Avenging Wrath, but we can't use them for mobility? NPC paladins leap all of the time in Warcraft. Tirion at the Battle of Light's Hope Chapel and at the climax of WotLK. Turalyon can leap during Argus questing, and his son Arathor can leap as a paladin class order hall follower. And that's not touching upon other official art, TCG art, novels and short stories, etc.

Damn you are late to the party. This has been asked and discussed on the ptr forums since it was datamined and again on the whole 10.07.

We even got an anwser from a blue, saying they dont want to much overlap with other classes and we have tried things blabla. It was a very weak anwser, but it just didnt make it and probably never will. Just to save u sone time.

Next to a few people who like steed, the majority simply never liked it since it implentation. Its just a very lame fantasy that doesnt really fit imo. Using your steed like that in combat is a dk thing. I mean name me one famous or known character that is not from the colleseum or hearthstone.
I will help, there isnt. We have seen more golden wings leaping in the air then any paladin on a mount. Including cinematics. If anything, its not really a warrior thing actually. But obviously that made some warriors mad, but its true.

[Nymrohd]

What blizzard needs for a successfull expansion is a good theme and no b*llshit ideas like azerite gear.

At this point everything beside a partial or full world revamp looks super clueless to me. I hope the tree is not a bad sign and I hope that they don't create some weird a**pull again like WoD, even though the night elf super nerd in me would love a time travel xpac to ancient kalimdor

I hope we see soon where the main story is going. Currently there is not much being discovered by data miners

While Azerite gear was bullshit, I still don't think max level progression is bullshit. Essences if made more alt friendly were a vibrant system. Covenants after the ridiculous exclusivity was ripped off in 9.1.5 were a solid system as well (though imo it suffered thematically from not being grounded in Warcraft enough). Artifacts would have been perfectly servicable without the infinite progression.

[Schwert]

Damn you are late to the party. This has been asked and discussed on the ptr forums since it was datamined and again on the whole 10.07.

We even got an anwser from a blue, saying they dont want to much overlap with other classes and we have tried things blabla. It was a very weak anwser, but it just didnt make it and probably never will. Just to save u sone time.

Next to a few people who like steed, the majority simply never liked it since it implentation. Its just a very lame fantasy that doesnt really fit imo. Using your steed like that in combat is a dk thing. I mean name me one famous or known character that is not from the colleseum or hearthstone.
I will help, there isnt. We have seen more golden wings leaping in the air then any paladin on a mount. Including cinematics. If anything, its not really a warrior thing actually. But obviously that made some warriors mad, but its true.

The things that warriors have done for over a decade+ with the "leap into the fray" fantasy is not really a warrior thing.

k.

Meanwhile, the noble knight on a steed is not fitting for a paladin.

[Nymrohd]

The archetypal warrior of Warcraft is Grom Hellscream. Both of Grom's main cinematic actions involved him leaping and landing his axe on the face of Mannoroth. If that's not heroic leap, I don't know what is.

At the same time the idea that a berserker jumping on an enemy just with raw strength is the same visually and thematically with a paladin growing wings of light momentarily to propel himself in the air and land on their enemies . . . is just wrong. It is different enough visually to allow more than once class to use it. Really, exclusivity of mechanics is silly when the mechanics are skinned radically different.

[Darkarath]

While Azerite gear was bullshit, I still don't think max level progression is bullshit. Essences if made more alt friendly were a vibrant system. Covenants after the ridiculous exclusivity was ripped off in 9.1.5 were a solid system as well (though imo it suffered thematically from not being grounded in Warcraft enough). Artifacts would have been perfectly servicable without the infinite progression.

The thing is that all these systems are not sustainable. They are borrowed power and thank god that they are moving away from it. I agree that the Essence system of 8.2 was by far the best kind of borrowed system that we have had, but you cannot keep adding and balancing essences forever. The only kind of max level progression system that would work is something that is just cosmetic or that buffs you against just PvE enemies in the open world, similar to what we have with the Maruuk Centaur but expanded, but nothing crazy like increasing your damage a lot all the time.

Focusing on the cosmetic progression, they are clearly going in that way with the Trading Post, and I could easily see this expanded so that we always have something to look up forward, a pet, a mount, class-only accesories, class-only sets, class-only magics and skills effects, hairstyles... you could put practically anything in a system like this, and it would not affect player power a bit. This is the way (IMO).