Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

Most people don't know any Light or Void figures. Blizzard didn't start setting that up until the final patch of Legion, long after WoW had fallen out of the mainstream consciousness, after the game peaked at 12 million subs and plummeted down to 5 million subs, and then it kept plummeting to the point that Blizzard was so embarrassed that they stopped publishing the sub count. There is hardly any fanart of evil Yrel or the Legion Army of Light, let alone of Void Alleria. Light vs Void is not going to draw millions of people back to the game like Horde vs Alliance did because nobody is nostalgic for Light vs Void.

Maybe not the Light figures, but Azshara is a hugely popular character and Denathrius and Xal'atath, both who would likely be involved, are very popular modern characters.

Nostalgia is over now that Arthas is dead. The only way there would be a nostalgia expansion now is a revamp expansion with old zones, which would still feature new races and concepts, and that is still likely. But the characters I mentioned would have a lot of draw to modern players.

Actually I take it back, because Scarlets have a VERY prominent wow fanbase. So have them involved in some major way and people will play.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

That's precisely what I was thinking: this kind of expansion leads to a good deal of sales of the subsequent expansion—if Legion is not an aberration—and the only reason why I think it didn't set a path for long-term recovery is because BfA was a highly underwhelming and unenjoyable expansion. What I'm concerned about is maintaining the aforementioned good faith through the next expansion.

Should also be noted that Legion was milking fans' interest in the Burning Legion, who were antagonists of WC3 and TBC, as well as fans' hype for Illidan and Demon Hunters.

[Darkarath]

I can see there being a 10.3 Titan-y patch with Tyr and Odyn but aside from that? I don't see a lot of story after Iridikron/Vyranoth/Fyrakk? vs the Dream, especially if Decay is brought in through one of them as it can be the ultimate enemy to the Dream.

I guess if that doesn't result in them becoming aspects again, "how do they become aspects" could be a whole patch story after the Incarnates are beaten. And that could be where Tyr and Odyn appear.

At least one Incarnate will live through DF IMO. Probably Iridikron, as It seems that he is going to be empowered by Decay and I can see that as a recurrent threat in the future.

If 10.2 is Emerald Dream related I can see Vyranoth dead in that patch.

Fyrakk is a weird one. He could fall to the Void and be a link to a future Void themed expansion. He could even usher the return of the Old Gods.

Regarding the Aspects, what if they do not become Aspects again? What if they base their power in the unity of the Dragonflights and the mortal races? We have defeated Raszageth and countless threats without them being at full power.

DF is showing us that going after power could have dire consequences, and the themes of unity and change are everywhere.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Maybe not the Light figures, but Azshara is a hugely popular character

With who? The tens of millions of people who played WoW in the 2000s when she only appeared in a novels that most people never read? Or by the remnant of people still subbed long after WoW fell out of the mainstream and Blizzard stopped publishing sub numbers?

[Catastrophy349]

So, they said in an interview that there would be "encrypted" stories for the "continuation of Tyr" and the "blue dragonflight" in patch 10.1 (not in a future patch, i.e. 10.1.5/10.1.7, etc.). So, when are we getting those stories? Next week? As a lead in to the 10.1.5 stuff? Who knows.

[Nymrohd]

Even assuming a DF-tier announcement to release schedule, that'd see a release around Q3 or Q4 2024, meaning that 10.2 would have to pull its weight for close to a year.

True, even if we say 6 months of its own season plus 3-4 months of a fated season it is a stretch. I do have an idea for that if you stay with me
So many people here dream of a revamp. But the focus is almost always on upgrading the zones. From something as basic as updating zones visually, possibly using automation and revamped objects with adequate spatial parity to just be replaced with a batch process to breaking down zones and combining them into new zones with less borders to the really ambitious idea about remaking the world at a larger scale. As for the content it again scales from World Quests and Rares to zones full of new storylines or the "compromise" idea of partial revamps that serve as expansion content (nvm that outside of Lordaeron, most other content blocks just don't have the juice for an expac story). It's very much story and world building first.

This might be great for me and others here, but not for the majority of players in WoW. Almost none of that content is really relevant (and it would need a better world content reward track which is an entirely different discussion) to the majority of the playerbase. And anything that is truly expansive splits the population so thin that any event or group activity would not be doable.

Meanwhile I am seeing in Dragonflight Blizzard probably stretching themselves thin. We are getting a lot of content in a much faster cycle. I don't know whether this is something they can keep up or they pivoted during SL to do this like they had between WoD and Legion.

So for me the solution is TIMEWALKING.
Every expac plus a number of Content Blocks from the Vanilla world becomes a seasonal timewalking attraction. So Lordaeron, Khaz Modan, Azeroth, Northern/wSouthern Kalimdor (they really need some type of name for these blocks). Each block gets updated visually. Add world quests, rares and vignettes. Add 2-3 world events (like Soup/Hunt/Siege). Maybe add a big storyline that travels around the area OR show a timewalking version of an epic storyline related to the area. Add at least one major War Mode world objective; in some places it can be Free for All, in others it is faction based. Pick one raid that will have Timewalking but not just normal; LFR and Heroic too. Pick 3-4 dungeons.

From then on, each expansion's normal content seasons are paired with a Timewalking season. The Dungeons enter the M+ rotation immediately. The zone content and the raid all activate in the .5 patch.

Everything stays relevant forever. You use the massive library of content the game has instead of having to play just today. It rotates slowly enough that it doesn't get repetitive.

[Cucumberer]

With who? The tens of millions of people who played WoW in the 2000s when she only appeared in a novels that most people never read? Or by the remnant of people still subbed long after WoW fell out of the mainstream and Blizzard stopped publishing sub numbers?

Not even trying to hide the "wow is dead" posts anymore huh?

[Nymrohd]

I can see there being a 10.3 Titan-y patch with Tyr and Odyn but aside from that? I don't see a lot of story after Iridikron/Vyranoth/Fyrakk? vs the Dream, especially if Decay is brought in through one of them as it can be the ultimate enemy to the Dream.

I guess if that doesn't result in them becoming aspects again, "how do they become aspects" could be a whole patch story after the Incarnates are beaten. And that could be where Tyr and Odyn appear.

Tyr and Aspects vs Odyn taking place in a visually updated Storm Peaks/Dragonblight.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

At least one Incarnate will live through DF IMO. Probably Iridikron, as It seems that he is going to be empowered by Decay and I can see that as a recurrent threat in the future.

If 10.2 is Emerald Dream related I can see Vyranoth dead in that patch.

Fyrakk is a weird one. He could fall to the Void and be a link to a future Void themed expansion. He could even usher the return of the Old Gods.

Regarding the Aspects, what if they do not become Aspects again? What if they base their power in the unity of the Dragonflights and the mortal races? We have defeated Raszageth and countless threats without them being at full power.

DF is showing us that going after power could have dire consequences, and the themes of unity and change are everywhere.

The aspects power isn't necessarily bad though. It ended bad for Sarkereth because the Old Gods powers are Shadow(Void) which made Deathwing insane. As tropey as it is going after dark powers is generally bad but I think thats different from the Aspects powers(Life, Nature, Time, Magic and the Earth). Fyrakk though unless he somehow survives enduring the Shadowflame(If deathwing couldn't I doubt any proto dragon could).

[ChronoSul]

So… Iridikron being a boss in the dungeon means the likelihood of him not being a raid boss (or end boss for any particular raid) is pretty good?

Looking more likely Murozond will be the true expansion’s antagonist.

Looks at Kael'thas , Lich King, Gorefiend and Xy'mox... yeah cant possibly have the same character in 2 raids/dungeons in one expansion :P

[Berkilak]

I think it's also possible that the Blue are 10.1.7 and Red and Green share 10.2. If we fight Iridikron this early (as well as Red and Green sharing similar themes) I'm not sure we will go all the way to 10.3.

My tinfoil conspiracy theory is that the expansion is going to culminate with Alexstrasza and Tyr re-empowering the dragonflights with new metallic themes, going away from the chromatic flights we have now (and yes, I consider the existing “bronze” flight chromatic).

[Darkarath]

True, even if we say 6 months of its own season plus 3-4 months of a fated season it is a stretch. I do have an idea for that if you stay with me
So many people here dream of a revamp. But the focus is almost always on upgrading the zones. From something as basic as updating zones visually, possibly using automation and revamped objects with adequate spatial parity to just be replaced with a batch process to breaking down zones and combining them into new zones with less borders to the really ambitious idea about remaking the world at a larger scale. As for the content it again scales from World Quests and Rares to zones full of new storylines or the "compromise" idea of partial revamps that serve as expansion content (nvm that outside of Lordaeron, most other content blocks just don't have the juice for an expac story). It's very much story and world building first.

This might be great for me and others here, but not for the majority of players in WoW. Almost none of that content is really relevant (and it would need a better world content reward track which is an entirely different discussion) to the majority of the playerbase. And anything that is truly expansive splits the population so thin that any event or group activity would not be doable.

Meanwhile I am seeing in Dragonflight Blizzard probably stretching themselves thin. We are getting a lot of content in a much faster cycle. I don't know whether this is something they can keep up or they pivoted during SL to do this like they had between WoD and Legion.

So for me the solution is TIMEWALKING.
Every expac plus a number of Content Blocks from the Vanilla world becomes a seasonal timewalking attraction. So Lordaeron, Khaz Modan, Azeroth, Northern/wSouthern Kalimdor (they really need some type of name for these blocks). Each block gets updated visually. Add world quests, rares and vignettes. Add 2-3 world events (like Soup/Hunt/Siege). Maybe add a big storyline that travels around the area OR show a timewalking version of an epic storyline related to the area. Add at least one major War Mode world objective; in some places it can be Free for All, in others it is faction based. Pick one raid that will have Timewalking but not just normal; LFR and Heroic too. Pick 3-4 dungeons.

From then on, each expansion's normal content seasons are paired with a Timewalking season. The Dungeons enter the M+ rotation immediately. The zone content and the raid all activate in the .5 patch.

Everything stays relevant forever. You use the massive library of content the game has instead of having to play just today. It rotates slowly enough that it doesn't get repetitive.

So if I get your idea correctly you are talking about making another revamp, meaning that Cataclysm zones would dissapear until they are again available when the corresponding Timewalking event happens.

I though about this possibility but you are taking away content from players (even if it comes back now and then in the form of Timewalking), and what kills this system for me is that you are taking away player freedom. If I want to level in Cataclysm zones or get a rep, mount, achievement, etc., I would have to wait until the Timewalking event is up. Plus all the phasing bugs that this would cause, and we already have a few in the zones which have two versions.

Much easier to revamp a part of a continent in a new map and expand it over time.

Although I have to say that if 11.0 is not the revamp it will probably never happen. They are seeding the game with many future plotlines, so the possibility of a revamp seems more unlikely with each DF patch. I really hope that I am wrong, though.

[Nymrohd]

So if I get your idea correctly you are talking about making another revamp, meaning that Cataclysm zones would dissapear until they are again available when the corresponding Timewalking event happens.

I though about this possibility but you are talking away content from players (even if comes back now and then in the forma of Timewalking), and what kills this system for me is that you are talking away player freedom. If I want to level in Cataclysm zones or get a rep, mount, achievement, etc., I would have to wait until the Timewalking event is up. Plus all the phasing bugs that this would cause, and we already have a few in the zones which have two versions.

Much easier to revamp a part of a continent in a new map and expand it over time.

Although I have to say that if 11.0 is not the revamp it will probably never happen. They are seeding the game with many future plotlines, so the possibility of a revamp seems more unlikely with each DF patch. I really hope that I am wrong, though.

Why would any content be taken away? WHy do people even think this way? Was Arathi and Darkshore taken away? You talk to an NPC and get them back.

My point is
a) a revamp needs to serve ALL players, not just those who want to explore, want worldbuilding and story. It needs to give something to AotC raiders who are stuck in farm cause Mythic is too hard, it needs to give variety to dungeoneers, it needs to feature pvp. Updating the world visually and adding new stories would be awesome and great for worldbuilding but it would give nothing to most of the playerbase who log in casually and want something to do in their preferred progression track. If once I have Vault on Farm I can get my raid to progress on BWL Heroic while having Grim Batol and some Blackrock Depth's wing as dungeons for variety in my M+ runs while also fighting vs the other faction in the ruins of Thundermar then yeah, that a complete experience.

[Darkarath]

Why would any content be taken away? WHy do people even think this way? Was Arathi and Darkshore taken away? You talk to an NPC and get them back.

It is a possibility, but IMO that is a shitty system that would cause many many many issues. It already has bugs and it is only in a few zones. Apply that to the whole world and it would be a nightmare, and extremely confusing for new players.

Actually, now that I think about it, the fact that they are having Dragonriding races in Kalimdor is a huge blow on the chances of a revamp like the one you mention.

[Nymrohd]

It is a possibility, but IMO that is a shitty system that would cause many many many issues. It already has bugs and it is only in a few zones. Apply that to the whole world and it would be a nightmare, and extremely confusing for new players.

New players don't even touch the old world. The game makes it very clear to guide them away from it. You start at exile's reach, go to BfA zones, go to Dragon Isles. Next xpac, probably Exile's Reach and then Dragon Isles. The only people who get confused are returning players who expect things to have stayed static since they left.

[Cheezits]

New players don't even touch the old world. The game makes it very clear to guide them away from it. You start at exile's reach, go to BfA zones, go to Dragon Isles. Next xpac, probably Exile's Reach and then Dragon Isles. The only people who get confused are returning players who expect things to have stayed static since they left.

I think there's a VERY slight chance next expansion brings new level-up areas for after Exiles Reach, but Dragon Isles makes for a better "first expansion" than BFA for sure.

[Darkarath]

I think there's a VERY slight chance next expansion brings new level-up areas for after Exiles Reach, but Dragon Isles makes for a better "first expansion" than BFA for sure.

Blizzard should allow players to level in the current expansion. When the story is done they can keep leveling through WQs. The tech is there and they have been using it for a while. They just need one more step to get it right.

In such a way, a world revamp would be easier to do IMO, as all zones could be relevant to all players.

[Cheezits]

Added 5 new fur colors for Worgen.
All restrictions for unlocking Allied Races have been removed, with the exception of a level requirement.
All Allied Races can now be unlocked once you have a level 40 character on your account (was level 50).
Newly created Allied Race characters will now be directed to Chromie, not the warboard.
Characters now learn the appropriate mount riding skill upon reaching the appropriate level without needing to visit a mount trainer:
Level 10 - Apprentice Riding
Level 20 - Journeyman Riding
Level 30 - Expert Riding
Level 40 - Master Riding
Developers’ note: Riding trainers will still exist in the world, but you will be unable to purchase riding skills from them.
Characters that reach level 30 will receive the quest “Time to Fly” and be awarded with a flying mount, Harbor Gryphon for Alliance characters and Scarlet Pterrordax for Horde characters.

And some extra Chromie improvements:

Chromie will now teach you what Chromie Time is, suggest timelines to choose, and share the opening cinematics.
The maximum level in Chromie Time is now 61 (was level 60).
Chromie Time expansion restrictions have been removed.
“The Dragon Isles Await!” now provides an item that lets you teleport to your capital city to begin your journey to the Dragon Isles immediately.
Dragonflight, Shadowlands, and Battle for Azeroth dungeon quests are now also available inside their respective dungeons.
Both Exile’s Reach and Battle for Azeroth now have campaigns to make it easier to track progress and pick up where you left off.
The quest line into Mechagon now starts at level 30 (was level 50).
Alliance players can now enter Nazjatar after completing “A Nation Divided” (was “Unlocking the World”).
Available starter zone quest lines and Battle for Azeroth side quests now display on the zone map.
Introduction to the capital cities after leaving Exile’s Reach has been improved.

[Sondrelk]

Loads of levelling stuff I see. Nice to get another Gryphon though, hopefully it's an unarmored variant.

Honestly, the restrictions on Allied Races are just starting to get weird now. Don't really see why they couldnt just be unlocked at the beginning at this point. Just make them have to go into Exile's reach if it's the first character made.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Characters that reach level 30 will receive the quest “Time to Fly” and be awarded with a flying mount, Harbor Gryphon for Alliance characters and Scarlet Pterrordax for Horde characters.

Seems like Blizzard is trying to supplant the Wyvern as the Horde's national flying mount.