Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Scyth]

Tbf, it's quite possible that the Primal Incarnates are infused enough with the elements that they could just respawn in the elemental plane. Especially Fyrrak who ate Smolderon inside of the Firelands.

I am very confident this is the case, they are as close to elementals as possible at this point. So if there ever is a need Blizz can easily bring them back imo, especially Fyrakk who seems to be well liked lol

Completely different topic but was wondering when Blizz are going to start sharing more info on other hero talents, been a while since the first posts although we did have the holidays inbetween.

[Throren]

Said it on the official forums and I'll say it here

if the mount reward from what is basically the grand finale and culmination of the Gilneas storyline after 14 IRL years is Scarlet themed and not Gilnean themed I feel like the community will riot. We have got more Scarlet themed cosmetics tailored for this group of light fascist cockroaches in the past few months thanks to the trading post, then worgen/gilneans have ever gotten over the course of an entire decade.

[Woggmer]

That firmly depends on what type of "Forest" and how long it is until we go to Avaloren wouldn't you say? I do not think for a second it's coming in TLT, I think it's beyond the Veiled Sea; if it were anywhere Ulduar it would be rather bizarre for Odyn to send 'expeditions'. I would bet Avaloren will show up in the expansion after TLT at the earliest. Further the big enchanted forests are always pruned, orderly, paradisaical places; serious overgrown and oversized jungles, swamps (especially something that feels like a proper bayou).... we've done them before but nowhere near as frequent.

Entirely in an enchanted forest is something I would cast some doubt on. I'm not a believer in the idea that everything north of the Thandol Span will get revamped, but I have yet to see a single speculation that doesn't include a zone built around the Amani and their lower fantasy woodlands. I also expect we'll probably see some oceanic zone of some sort given Azshara's connections to the Void and Xal'atath, and probably a patch zone taking us into the Void proper or expanding massively on the shattered remains of Telogrus. Still largely enchanted forest, but entirely? That I doubt.

I don't think Elves should have any pre-established foothold on Avaloren. A Human Kingdom, especially if it takes inspiration from absent real world Human cultures (Edo, Congolese, Tamil, and Bengali peoples all have distinct architecture at home in deeply forested regions), I would be very happy with.

Does Avaloren have to be an 'enchanted forest'? Why not just a Holy forest? Light infused trees and stones shine and shimmer like it was polished. We've seen decaying forests, we've seen regular ones in Kalimdor that were imbued with nature, we've seen ones imbued with the Arcane like Suramar and Eversong.. a Petrified Forest in Argus (though I wouldn't mind that as a concept as well, but less dark and dreary and more Light and Shimmering)... but we've never seen a Forest imbued entirely by Light.

The Petrified Forest concept can also work as we've only seen it done on Argus, but it was made to look scary, unpleasant.. but in Avaloren, a Holy Petrified forest could work and could also be the origin of where Jotuun got the "silver" to make Tyr's "Silver" Hand.

Calia's child was already absolutely shunned as a child of low birth, Blizzard has had bigger rectally derived plot twists but a second societally shameful child not considered legitimate in the succession of Lordaeron, that she never bothered to mention or regret at any point? That would hell of an ass pull and a lot less interesting than the Scarlets pulling a Darius the Great on the succession.

Calia does have a daughter, but it was only mentioned in old lore and in books, never explicitly said in-game aside from those Scarlet Brotherhood pamphlets left in BFA. However those pamphlets said that it was actually a son of a nobleman, not a daughter of a common footman.
(This last part is only just a theory of where they might go...) I don't think this is meant to be a retcon or a lore-mistake... but it is possible that they might've taken her daughter after they got separated and MAYBE... JUST MAYBE... that daughter was manipulated into looking and acting like a boy. They're doing this just so that the humans can have a "legitimate" claim to Lordaeron and have Calia's kid be the one to execute them.

[Lady Atia]

Does Avaloren have to be an 'enchanted forest'? Why not just a Holy forest? Light infused trees and stones shine and shimmer like it was polished. We've seen decaying forests, we've seen regular ones in Kalimdor that were imbued with nature, we've seen ones imbued with the Arcane like Suramar and Eversong.. a Petrified Forest in Argus (though I wouldn't mind that as a concept as well, but less dark and dreary and more Light and Shimmering)... but we've never seen a Forest imbued entirely by Light.

The Petrified Forest concept can also work as we've only seen it done on Argus, but it was made to look scary, unpleasant.. but in Avaloren, a Holy Petrified forest could work and could also be the origin of where Jotuun got the "silver" to make Tyr's "Silver" Hand.



Calia does have a daughter, but it was only mentioned in old lore and in books, never explicitly said in-game aside from those Scarlet Brotherhood pamphlets left in BFA. However those pamphlets said that it was actually a son of a nobleman, not a daughter of a common footman.
(This last part is only just a theory of where they might go...) I don't think this is meant to be a retcon or a lore-mistake... but it is possible that they might've taken her daughter after they got separated and MAYBE... JUST MAYBE... that daughter was manipulated into looking and acting like a boy. They're doing this just so that the humans can have a "legitimate" claim to Lordaeron and have Calia's kid be the one to execute them.

Tbh, I'm not sure if a trans-heir to Lordaeron is the best story to handle to Blizz, but on the other hands, it would be fun the see the bigots riot 'cause of it, so I'm all here for it lol.

[Woggmer]

Tbh, I'm not sure if a trans-heir to Lordaeron is the best story to handle to Blizz, but on the other hands, it would be fun the see the bigots riot 'cause of it, so I'm all here for it lol.

I'd rather not get to the IRL politics of it, that's just my guess on where they might take the whole Calia's child plot...
Even then it would make a lot of sense as the Scarlet Crusade/Brotherhood is willing to take extremes to justify the means to an end. (Like the fact that the Scarlet Onslaught in Wrath had Raven Priests [shadow priests but with ravens] and even DEATH KNIGHTS into their ranks!)

Still, the whole idea that the Scarlet Crusade is spreading a giant lie about Calia's heir is more than enough to convince people about it. So there is another possibility that it is someone pretending to be the heir... but then it only raises the question of what happened to her daughter this whole time.

[Xilurm]

Tbh, I'm not sure if a trans-heir to Lordaeron is the best story to handle to Blizz, but on the other hands, it would be fun the see the bigots riot 'cause of it, so I'm all here for it lol.

They handled it pretty well with Pelagos. You wouldn't really know it unless you read his quest text.

On the other hand, disagreeing with a story decision but also wanting it to happen because it would rile shit up makes you no better.

[Murlocos]

Said it on the official forums and I'll say it here

if the mount reward from what is basically the grand finale and culmination of the Gilneas storyline after 14 IRL years is Scarlet themed and not Gilnean themed I feel like the community will riot. We have got more Scarlet themed cosmetics tailored for this group of light fascist cockroaches in the past few months thanks to the trading post, then worgen/gilneans have ever gotten over the course of an entire decade.

Completely agreed. This questline is going to be a litmus test for me as to whether we can actually expect any real improvement in the story from TWW and beyond. If the reclamation of Gilneas is sidelining the Gilneans themselves in favor of talking about how nice and helpful the Forsaken are, or trying to build up Scarlets again after they've become complete joke villains in the past decade, then there's no real reason to expect anything they do in this trilogy to have coherent or meaningful payoffs. It would demonstrate such a consistent and total inability to extract the basic essence from a story you're picking up that I'd earnestly expect higher quality work from middle schoolers.

Of course, that's probably what we're going to get, so buckle up! If nothing else, I hope that this proves to be a reckoning on stories being gutted by their desire to make them all faction neutral. There is such a wide, wide middle ground between faction neutrality to the point of absurdity and total faction war; they should probably find where it is before they keep disintegrating one of the defining elements of their IP with nothing to fill the hole. Hint: the middle ground is vanilla.

[Varodoc]

With new Scarlet Crusade cosmetic items from the Trading Post, it's only logical that they'll make a Scarlet-themed warhorse to complete the set.

Like it or not, the Scarlet Crusade IS a popular villain faction, especially amongst RPers.

Alternatively, they'll make a Gilnean warhorse for Dragonflight and keep the Scarlet warhorse for Hallowfall, but I wouldn't bet on that.

[Murlocos]

I think it's more logical to reward a cosmetic that's more satisfying to the primary demographic that's most excited for this particular piece of content, and precisely because there's been an influx of Scarlet cosmetics already.

Read your audience instead of blindly doling things out.

[Lady Atia]

They handled it pretty well with Pelagos. You wouldn't really know it unless you read his quest text.

On the other hand, disagreeing with a story decision but also wanting it to happen because it would rile shit up makes you no better.

I'm not disagreeing with a story decision, I'm just not sure if they can handle it. And there is a difference between Pelagus and the bespoken trans-heir to the throne of Lordaeron. For the first it didn't even matter storywise, while for the second it would literally be what the character is about.

[Varodoc]

I think it's more logical to reward a cosmetic that's more satisfying to the primary demographic that's most excited for this particular piece of content, and precisely because there's been an influx of Scarlet cosmetics already.

Read your audience instead of blindly doling things out.

If you care so much about a Gilnean warhorse, why you don't try to get the Gilnean warhorse mount that's already in the game?

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Vicious_Gilnean_Warhorse


Just like you've waited 14 years for another Gilnean mount, you've also had almost 8 years to get this mount.

Meanwhile, there is no Scarlet-themed mount in the game yet. People who want to RP as a member of the Scarlet Crusade or simply enjoy the Crimson aesthetic are forced to use third party/budget mounts that don't actually have anything to do with the Scarlet Crusade.

[Murlocos]

If you care so much about a Gilnean warhorse, why you don't try to get the Gilnean warhorse mount that's already in the game?

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Vicious_Gilnean_Warhorse


Just like you've waited 14 years for another Gilnean mount, you've also had almost 8 years to get this mount.

Meanwhile, there is no Scarlet-themed mount in the game yet. People who want to RP as a member of the Scarlet Crusade or simply enjoy the Crimson aesthetic are forced to use third party/budget mounts that don't actually have anything to do with the Scarlet Crusade.

How about the poor, neglected Scarlet RPers just get their mount on the trading post like they've gotten all their other cosmetics? How about we give the audience that's been waiting for this event for 14 years something appropriate instead of serving an already-served audience rewards for an event they had no association with until just now? This stuff matters. Thinking solely of terms of "oh we need a Scarlet mount, let's throw it on.... the Gilneas reclamation storyline" is the kind of thinking that all you need to do is tick boxes that makes the developers feel out of touch.

[Xilurm]

I'm not disagreeing with a story decision, I'm just not sure if they can handle it. And there is a difference between Pelagus and the bespoken trans-heir to the throne of Lordaeron. For the first it didn't even matter storywise, while for the second it would literally be what the character is about.

It would most likely be the same case as Pelagos though. For the story to matter in such a way it would have to mean that being trans (or any gender) actually matter in the universe of Warcraft. But it doesn't. I can't recall any time where a gender of a character mattered. Anyone can be a leader or as powerful as need be regardless of gender. The people of Warcraft never had any issues with that. They don't have issues with people being gay either. They just accept them regardless. It's not even a matter of acceptance, it's completely normal.

For it to suddenly matter would be weird and out of place.

[Lady Atia]

How about the poor, neglected Scarlet RPers just get their mount on the trading post like they've gotten all their other cosmetics? How about we give the audience that's been waiting for this event for 14 years something appropriate instead of serving an already-served audience rewards for an event they had no association with until just now? This stuff matters. Thinking solely of terms of "oh we need a Scarlet mount, let's throw it on.... the Gilneas reclamation storyline" is the kind of thinking that all you need to do is tick boxes that makes the developers feel out of touch.

Are we now really discussing an encrypted mount that may or may not be another horse? Btw, it would be weird as fuck to give a scarlet reward for a worgen questline, especially if they are planning on using the same style for Hallowfall/Avaloren anyways. Besides that, they already have the trading post for giving out rewards that would feel out of place, so I agree, if they are doing a scarlet crusade themed mount it would be from there.

- - - Updated - - -

If you care so much about a Gilnean warhorse, why you don't try to get the Gilnean warhorse mount that's already in the game?

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Vicious_Gilnean_Warhorse


Just like you've waited 14 years for another Gilnean mount, you've also had almost 8 years to get this mount.

Meanwhile, there is no Scarlet-themed mount in the game yet. People who want to RP as a member of the Scarlet Crusade or simply enjoy the Crimson aesthetic are forced to use third party/budget mounts that don't actually have anything to do with the Scarlet Crusade.

I'm actually hoping for a recolour of that wooly warhorse that's not locked behind the annoying pvp grind. They already did the same with the Orcs/Humans/Undead mounts.

[Dracullus]

I still don't get why we have no profession knowledge catch up so late into expansion, months after even casual people who played regularly could finish whole tree on main professions.

I hope 10.2.6 will fix it, but to be honest all we need is hotfix with dragon shards vendor, let's say for supplies.

[Schwert]

Sincerely hoping there's a hidden customization unlock for the Worgen right now they've been asking for since the Cataclysm alpha because man, so far, none of this outside the city being back in general is anything what any Worgen player I've ever met has asked for in the last 12 years. We got Darkfallen with the undead questchain, which was one of the most requested things in the game in general and has remained immensely popular since it's introduction. (Amount of Dark Rangers / San'layn running around on the RP servers still after the hype died down is insane, and I still have like 5 San'layn.)

Throw them a bone.
So no, it shouldn't be a scarlet theme mount. We've had little to no involvement with Scarlets upfront - it was Worgen vs Forsaken that was sold to us originally and hyped up for over a decade.

At least hoping the transmog is a better recolour of the heritage set too, because that whole quest chain and it's reward were also extremely off the mark as to why most people enjoy the whole werewolf thing. "It's bad! Don't do it Princess"! - ...it could have been literally anything but a story about how the cool thing about your race is bad.

If you care so much about a Gilnean warhorse, why you don't try to get the Gilnean warhorse mount that's already in the game?

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Vicious_Gilnean_Warhorse


Just like you've waited 14 years for another Gilnean mount, you've also had almost 8 years to get this mount.

Meanwhile, there is no Scarlet-themed mount in the game yet. People who want to RP as a member of the Scarlet Crusade or simply enjoy the Crimson aesthetic are forced to use third party/budget mounts that don't actually have anything to do with the Scarlet Crusade.

People in this game are so allergic to PvP they won't even do the most casual forms of it for extremely easy to obtain cosmetics.

[Nightshade711]

Would be cool if we got options for Worgen to not have a hunch like the Orcs did.

And a carriage mount would be neat to finally have.

[Ersula]

Would be cool if we got options for Worgen to not have a hunch like the Orcs did.

And a carriage mount would be neat to finally have.

Worgen don't have a hunch. That's just how you fit a non-bipedial creatures' head onto a biped body. If you straightened out a Worgen or Tauren their faces would be pointed directly upwards.

[Nightshade711]

Worgen don't have a hunch. That's just how you fit a non-bipedial creatures' head onto a biped body. If you straightened out a Worgen or Tauren their faces would be pointed directly upwards.

Worgen males have a very clear and obvious hunch in their back that the females don’t have.

Here’s an example showing it:



Versus

[Woggmer]

Would be cool if we got options for Worgen to not have a hunch like the Orcs did.

And a carriage mount would be neat to finally have.

Would be cool if the carriage mount can hold up to maybe 4-5 players (with the 5th one being the driver). Even if it is a ground mount, it can make transportation through a dungeon or raid a fun joy ride.... provided that whoever is driving isn't a total jerk and drives off a cliff.