Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Murlocos]

Everything surrounding Ysera in Dragonflight is emblematic of the problems with their decision making. Someone on the team wanted to bring her back, nobody wanted to say no to the idea, so a strained narrative was created to justify it with mythological analogies being invoked that had zero relevance to the story being told. The players naturally reacted with confusion because no sizeable audience neither expected nor wanted Ysera to come back, and the team comes to a crossroads: they've committed to a bad idea and thrown it out into the public, and now they either have to keep with it all the way or walk it back.

What follows is them attempting to do both, and so the whole ordeal ends up having no real purpose as the characters do nothing before leaving. Its presence is an active drag on the story as it only distracts the audience with questions that the team did not intend to be asked. These questions often end up being very surface level and very obvious questions that the team should have had answers for before the content was even available for public testing, but instead they appear to be figuring it out at about the same pace as the players.

The chief problem is that, in most cases, they seem to be approaching storytelling with a mindset of "I want to tell this story", they grab a handful of characters for it without a second thought, and try to make it work. They're not asking how a certain character would react to a particular scenario, why a character would be willing to do a certain action, etc. The writers view the world and characters as a set of disconnected tools to tell whatever story they come up with on the spot while the audience is still viewing them as actual places and people with their own personalities and agendas with stories that can be more naturally spun from those elements.

I'd like to think that this gets better with the Worldsoul Saga, but one of the glaring problems is just how often they are coming up with bad ideas and apparently not able to recognize them.

This team decided not to mention anywhere in game that Fyrakk is Alexstraza's cousin, not even in the ending quest lines or cinematic after his defeat. Are they that piss poor they thought it wouldn't be important to mention, or was it added to the book last minute to try and make him seem more like a proper end boss?

WoW's always had a problem with story content being shoved into books, probably at its worst around Cata and MoP, but Sylvanas and War of the Scaleborn feel more like them figuring out the story they actually want to tell at the end of the expansion and then publishing it. They're so disconnected from the game they might as well be considered take twos.

[Sondrelk]

The original storyline was likely some variant of Ysera coaching her daughter to take up her reins, her last dialogue suggests as much, while Malf took a possibly indefinite timeout, both due to power issues and because he's had nothing to do or any role that made sense for the entire course of the game and his only good MMO moments were parts of A Good War and thirty seconds of a Darkshore cinematic. However, they backtracked on this due to player complaints and so the whole thing got shelved and went nowhere.

It would certainly explain a whole bunch of weird zigzagging on Ysera if we assume that it's all down to using her and Malfurion as plot devices.

Ysera didn't leave immediately in SL because they wanted that big moment of her returning in DF.
Then they had Malfurion take her place solely to remove Malfurion from the picture.
Once Ysera was set to return, the backlash against not making her daughter the new aspect got loud enough they scrapped all the stuff with her in DF, which they didn't replace with anything since why bother.

I imagine they also scrapped a bunch of stuff once it became clear this would be a shorter expansion. The developers probably assumed they had more time for small events, which never manifested when the Bronze Dragonflight stuff took up so much time in the middle of the expansion.

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This reminds me: Vakthros. This looked like it'd play a huge part, and Raszageth even seemed to imply such, yet here we are. A big nothing area of Azure Span.

Wasn't it confirmed somewhere it was supposed to be the lead-in to the raid? Some endgame questline would see it destroyed or deactivated, which would lead to Razsageth flying to the raid, and Kalecgos and Khadgar following after.

What I am more curious about though is the Oathstones plotline. It seemed to be leading somewhere, and then it just disappeared after the pre-raid quest, never to be mentioned again.

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This is one of the big reasons I suspect there was a major patch cut from Dragonflight. They made such a big deal about Ysera coming back temporarily to help, but she ended up doing nothing except channeling a shield for a bit and motivating Merithra. Instead we got Alexstrasza and Vyranoth taking the lead in a patch focused on the Emerald Dream and Green Dragonflight, while the Reds as a whole were ignored for the entire expansion.

It feels like there should have been one more patch there- with Ysera and Merithra taking Alexstrasza and Vyranoth's place in 10.2, followed by a 10.3 focused on the Red Dragonflight (probably facing Iridikron- it seemed like they were building him up as the final boss early on, and I suspect Dragonflight changed because Metzen wanted to save him for the Saga when he came back just after launch).

DF doesn't really feel like it's missing a major patch like SL. But rather that it lacked a large amount of filler quests that would explain a bunch of stuff, and flesh out motivations.
Vyranoth going straight from Primalist ally, directly to being friends with Alexstrasza again. That one definitely felt like it was missing at least a patch of her being a free agent before joining us.

A Titan themed patch to bring in all the various plot points wouldn't have gone amiss. Though that one definitely feels like it might have been shelved in favor of putting all their eggs into the Last Titan basket.

[Varodoc]

Vakthros in the Azure Span reeks of cut content.

I mean, literally the first shot we get of the Dragon Isles is Vakthros, clearly they wanted it to play some kind of major role:




And do you really want to tell me that it's just a coincidence that the area around Vakthros eerily looks like an Old God silhouette?




Vakthros can join Azjol-Nerub, Abyssal Maw, and Shattrath City in the list of scrapped raids.

[Valysar]

The reclaiming of Gilneas gives a fox mount

[elbleuet]

The reclaiming of Gilneas gives a fox mount

Mind giving us a screenshot ?

[Valysar]

Mind giving us a screenshot ?

I just saw the icon on a stream, sorry
(and I'm from EU so can"t check IG )

[Sondrelk]

WoW's always had a problem with story content being shoved into books, probably at its worst around Cata and MoP, but Sylvanas and War of the Scaleborn feel more like them figuring out the story they actually want to tell at the end of the expansion and then publishing it. They're so disconnected from the game they might as well be considered take twos.

I imagine this is more to do with when the book comes out. It being at the tail end of the expansion definitely gives the writers noe time to ruminate on the various failings of the expansion. But the books have always felt like an idealized version of the story they ACTUALLY wanted to tell.

Before the Storm, and to some extent A Good War, does the same for BfA. Telling a story of the Hordes failings as a nation, and gives context to actions that are sorely lacking in the game. Painting a picture of a morally complex war created by one person for nebulous reasons, and perpetuated by the naive.

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Vakthros in the Azure Span reeks of cut content.

I mean, literally the first shot we get of the Dragon Isles is Vakthros, clearly they wanted it to play some kind of major role:

[IMG]


And do you really want to tell me that it's just a coincidence that the area around Vakthros eerily looks like an Old God silhouette?

[IMG]


Vakthros can join Azjol-Nerub, Abyssal Maw, and Shattrath City in the list of scrapped raids.

I stand by Occam's razor in this case. It was going to be the intro to the raid. It got scrapped for whatever reason. And the writers didn't know what to do with it beyond just keeping the quests already associated with it.

Now why exactly they would scrap that part of the story is anyone's guess. On a cursory glance it really doesn't make sense for any reason beyond miscommunication between the world designers and the writers, but who knows.

[Super Dickmann]

Vakthros can join Azjol-Nerub, Abyssal Maw, and Shattrath City in the list of scrapped raids.

Vakthros was just Vault of the Incarnates before a rewrite and the raid entrance was moved for no adequate reason. Razsageth is going after it and it's very important, whereas she just waltzes into VoI, Vakthros is guarded and is the focus of a zone where VoI is just there, VoI has no lore or mentions before or since except in a tie-in book released much better, there's frost tunnels and frost spiders that otherwise only show up in Azure Span under VoI, despite VoI being a lava biome, etc. etc.

[Varodoc]

A fox? Odd choice for a mount.

From a HUMAN kingdom, you'd expect a steed or even a gryphon as a reward. Not really a fox.

[Super Dickmann]

A fox? Odd choice for a mount.

From a HUMAN kingdom, you'd expect a steed or even a gryphon as a reward. Not really a fox.

Please god, no more fucking horses. Besides, Gilneas has foxes in the starting experience, so they're native.

[Varodoc]

Please god, no more fucking horses. Besides, Gilneas has foxes in the starting experience, so they're native.

BfA was 5 years ago, this is a reminder in case the Pandemic shifted your perception of time.

Majority of Alliance playebase has gotten over the Horse fatigue from BfA/Kul Tiras.

You see this in this very thread, where people wanted a new Gilnean warhorse.

[Nymrohd]

Vakthros was just Vault of the Incarnates before a rewrite and the raid entrance was moved for no adequate reason. Razsageth is going after it and it's very important, whereas she just waltzes into VoI, Vakthros is guarded and is the focus of a zone where VoI is just there, VoI has no lore or mentions before or since except in a tie-in book released much better, there's frost tunnels and frost spiders that otherwise only show up in Azure Span under VoI, despite VoI being a lava biome, etc. etc.

There is an interactible item on top of Vakthros that pretty much confirms it; it was used to power the Vault by diverting the local ley lines. It's why Razsageth attacked it. We know from datamining the Vault would be on an Island just off the coast nearby in Azure Span.

[Super Dickmann]

BfA was 5 years ago, this is a reminder in case the Pandemic shifted your perception of time.

Majority of Alliance playebase has gotten over the Horse fatigue from BfA/Kul Tiras.

You see this in this very thread, where people wanted a new Gilnean warhorse.

Yes, but there's one too many horses while precious few foxes, foxes are a better commodity, more bang for the buck. Especially if it doesn't use the vulpin model.

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There is an interactible item on top of Vakthros that pretty much confirms it; it was used to power the Vault by diverting the local ley lines. It's why Razsageth attacked it. We know from datamining the Vault would be on an Island just off the coast nearby in Azure Span.

Good catch, though I've no idea why they changed it, VoI's surroundings are very generic and we're far past latency issues being the reasoning like the Argent Tournament being away from Dala.

[Sondrelk]

A fox? Odd choice for a mount.

From a HUMAN kingdom, you'd expect a steed or even a gryphon as a reward. Not really a fox.

Gilneas doesn't really have any history with gryphons, so probably not one of those, and we have s bunch of horses already. I doubt another one would be all that different or interesting to look at compared to all the ones we already have.

Foxes though are a rare thing to have as a mount. Not counting the amazing technicolor vulpins from Ardenweald I think there are only two fox mounts. One is a vicious saddle mount,and the other is way up there in terms of rare drop mounts.

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Yes, but there's one too many horses while precious few foxes, foxes are a better commodity, more bang for the buck. Especially if it doesn't use the vulpin model.

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Good catch, though I've no idea why they changed it, VoI's surroundings are very generic and we're far past latency issues being the reasoning like the Argent Tournament being away from Dala.

Honestly, I am less so wondering about why Vaktgris was written out, and more so why the Mother Oathstone was written in. It was only mentioned that once and never again.
Smacks to me of writers scrapping an idea without a good one to replace it. Realizing too late that they can't do anything about it.

[milkmustache]

Gilnean quest was interseting.

Things to note: the dialogue box in the quest menu for the final Scarlet leader says "This will not be the last time we see the Scarlet Crusade", along with her turning into a light creature, like the one in Exile's Reach. Yellow voidlord NPC. However, the NPC is named "Hallowed Monstrosity", which feels far too on the nose considering we're going to venture to a place named [I]Hallow[/I]fall, a zone full of light worshipping humans. Arathi and Scarlet tie in feels inevitable.

Also, Genn wandering of; this trope is okay every now and then, Blizzard, but god it feels like every time they have other usages for a lore character they will abdicate their throne and then wander to find an old friend. Not that big a deal, just tiring. Anyway, going to see Anduin I suppose?

EDIT: Hid for spoilers.

[Super Dickmann]

Honestly, I am less so wondering about why Vaktgris was written out, and more so why the Mother Oathstone was written in. It was only mentioned that once and never again.
Smacks to me of writers scrapping an idea without a good one to replace it. Realizing too late that they can't do anything about it.

The Mother Oathstone reeks more of a plot beat meant to fail, but they skipped the part where this is said explicitly. The whole gist of the plot is that the Aspects want to reclaim their powers by filling out the titan checklist, they do so by the end of the questing but it fails. So they all go on vision quests (except Alex, unless you count her Vyranoth reunion I guess) and then at the end of Amirdrassil they find out that the real power was the friends they made along the way and get the buff. The Oathstone in this exists to fail and for them not to use it.

You could skip and just do the same thing with them searching for Tyr to re-empower them, only to solve the problem themselves and have him feel lost, and the game in fact does this, making the Oathstone even more pointless, as the way it's written following it not working and Rasz calling them clowns at the very first patch there's not even an attempt to get it working again. As is, it's a redundant plot element.

[Nymrohd]

Honestly, I am less so wondering about why Vaktgris was written out, and more so why the Mother Oathstone was written in. It was only mentioned that once and never again.
Smacks to me of writers scrapping an idea without a good one to replace it. Realizing too late that they can't do anything about it.

The entire Oathstone plot was just stupid. It made the story worse by just adding another "Five items" unless they are meant to be the Five Torches. It was never explained, Tyr did not explain it once he came back. Imo we should have gotten to Valdrakken after the Centaur area, had proper questing storyline around Uldorus and then finished in Azure Span. That would have given them more quest time to expand on Tyr and better explain what happened at the Halls of Infusion so we did not have to find out why the entire war happened at a novel a full year after the expac was released. They also should have had some questing in Alg'ethar, that place had heavy design and it was so poorly used; it could have been a daily center easily.

[Super Dickmann]

The entire Oathstone plot was just stupid. It made the story worse by just adding another "Five items" unless they are meant to be the Five Torches. It was never explained, Tyr did not explain it once he came back. Imo we should have gotten to Valdrakken after the Centaur area, had proper questing storyline around Uldorus and then finished in Azure Span. They also should have had some questing in Alg'ethar, that place had heavy design and it was so poorly used; it could have been a daily center easily.

I'm impressed that the writers did the "Find the five plot dicks to proceed with the story" plot twice and both times they were both entirely unnecessary for the story being told and either dropped in and then forgotten (DF), or added retroactively and then forgotten (SL 9.1).

[Nymrohd]

I'm impressed that the writers did the "Find the five plot dicks to proceed with the story" plot twice and both times they were both entirely unnecessary for the story being told and either dropped in and then forgotten (DF), or added retroactively and then forgotten (SL 9.1).

Twice? Five Pillars of Creation, Five Covenant Sigils, Five Oathstones
I'm probably missing something else as well.

[Super Dickmann]

Twice? Five Pillars of Creation, Five Covenant Sigils, Five Oathstones
I'm probably missing something else as well.

I won't count the Pillars of Creation, because it was the first time and there they were actually repeatedly used over the course of the expansion and into the future and represented actual tangible items used in the story instead of disposable symbolic coupons.