Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Teriz]

But Draenor might not even exist anymore at this point.

Which facilitates Arrakoa and Ogres fleeing a dying Draenor and taking refuge on MU Azeroth. Yrel follows them with her army, and you got your expansion.

She would make a good antagonist, because unlike Sylvanas, her motivations would be very clear from the beginning, and she wouldn’t be pulling BS powers out of her hat to move the plot.

[Nightshade711]

Yrel and the Naaru that she serves could easily find another route to Azeroth

Not in any way that’d make sense. Neither are known for any form of time travel.

Also “ Light is Bad” is a good way to introduce a fracture in the alliance, since Turalyon and the Draenei could sympathize with Yrel.

There’s no reason for there to be a fracture in the alliance.
And given Velen’s arc, especially in Legion, there’s no chance he’d ever side with the “bad light”

I really don’t think people want to deal with more Shadow stuff after Shadowlands.

I disagree. Nobody seems to have an issue with the void stuff in 10.1, people seem to like it if anything.
The speculation for the void chains in Abberus is one example.
(Plus death ≠ void)

Also I doubt Blizzard would do another neutral race after the Dracthyr. Ogres and Arrakoa are very popular options that could actually go to the factions

Ethereals wouldn’t have to be a neutral race.
Naga can be the other race to go with them given we know they’ll probably resurface again when Azshara returns from the void. (As was hinted in 10.0.7)
The only reason why Naga weren’t added in Vanilla was the concern of “how would Naga wear boots”, but given the Mechagnomes and Dracthyr, the solution to that problem is clear.

There’s almost no shot that Ogres are going to happen. If there was a possibility for them to happen they would have.

[huth]

Which facilitates Arrakoa and Ogres fleeing a dying Draenor and taking refuge on MU Azeroth. Yrel follows them with her army, and you got your expansion.

No, it doesn't. You're thinking of Draenor fading. I'm talking about it being one step further already. I.e. there's no Arrakoa, Ogres or Yrel to go anywhere.

[Khaza-R]

But Draenor might not even exist anymore at this point.

One can only hope.

Honestly I would much rather have an expansion take place on some long lost pieces or MU Draenor or where ever those other dark portals led too, than have any more AU shenanigans.

[huth]

Ethereals wouldn’t have to be a neutral race.
Naga can be the other race to go with them given we know they’ll probably resurface again when Azshara returns from the void. (As was hinted in 10.0.7)
The only reason why Naga weren’t added in Vanilla was the concern of “how would Naga wear boots”, but given the Mechagnomes and Dracthyr, the solution to that problem is clear.

There’s almost no shot that Ogres are going to happen. If there was a possibility for them to happen they would have.

The argument is silly anyway. Dracthyr are the second "neutral" race coming in the wake of Blizzard de-emphasising faction segregation as something that affects player interaction. If anything, chances of races being available to both sides are going up, not down.

[Nightshade711]

No, it doesn't. You're thinking of Draenor fading. I'm talking about it being one step further already. I.e. there's no Arrakoa, Ogres or Yrel to go anywhere.

True.
Besides, Draenor was dying by the time we see it.
With how time worked on Draenor 2 years on Azeroth was several decades.

Canonically it’s been 6-7 years on Azeroth since then, so who knows how many hundreds of years it was for Draenor so Draenor would be completely dead by now.
That’s if the timeline wasn’t completely wiped when the path to Draenor was closed forever.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Some people are really trying to stretch for conflict in the Alliance like stop it. Lets not repeat BFA and MoP(The tear the x faction apart cause reasons and make fans suffer).

I disagree. Nobody seems to have an issue with the void stuff in 10.1, people seem to like it if anything.
The speculation for the void chains in Abberus is one example.
(Plus death ≠ void)

Eventually we will have to deal with it in a big way but its good to poke at it every 2 years or so. Not that people are tired of the Void. Like its barely touched on in such ways that Death was or say the Legion.

[Teriz]

Not in any way that’d make sense. Neither are known for any form of time travel.

Neither was Garrosh. He got ported there by a Bronze Dragon. Evil Chromie could make it happen as a final middle finger for stopping their plans. It's really as simple as that.

There’s no reason for there to be a fracture in the alliance.
And given Velen’s arc, especially in Legion, there’s no chance he’d ever side with the “bad light”

That's the thing though, they're not "bad", they're simply fanatical, which is only bad depending on your perspective. To Yrel she's doing the greater good by turning everyone to the light in order to save them from the Void. To some (possibly Turalyon and the LF Draenei) that isn't a terrible thing, given the horrors they saw with the Legion.

I disagree. Nobody seems to have an issue with the void stuff in 10.1, people seem to like it if anything.
The speculation for the void chains in Abberus is one example.
(Plus death ≠ void)

Yeah, because we're not dealing with it constantly like we did in 8.3 and in Shadowlands.

And to a casual gamer (the majority of WoW's audience) they're not going to see the difference between Void and Death. They'll just see more gloomy colors and lots of shadow magic flying around. Heck, even the Ethereal were present in Shadowlands.

Ethereals wouldn’t have to be a neutral race.
Naga can be the other race to go with them given we know they’ll probably resurface again when Azshara returns from the void. (As was hinted in 10.0.7)
The only reason why Naga weren’t added in Vanilla was the concern of “how would Naga wear boots”, but given the Mechagnomes and Dracthyr, the solution to that problem is clear.

There’s almost no shot that Ogres are going to happen. If there was a possibility for them to happen they would have.

Why weren't Naga added in BFA?

As for Ogres, they just didn't have a good reason to be brought into the factions. With the Maghar Orcs joining the Horde in BFA via fleeing Yrel's army is a good precedence to fall back on, especially if Draenor is dying and they need a new home. Heck, even bring Rexxar into the mix to help out.

[Dracullus]

Some people are really trying to stretch for conflict in the Alliance like stop it. Lets not repeat BFA and MoP(The tear the x faction apart cause reasons and make fans suffer).

Of course now it's too soon, but nothing in game stops them from repeating faction war expac in future. Nothing. Every mechanic change since 9.2.5 just reflect cooperation that was a thing during most of last 20 years. But factions still exist.

And it's not like it was bad theme (until they went with evil Sylvanas and threw away all nuances). Some people hate it, sure, but overall BfA was easily most hyped launch in WoW history. If only game had DF design and support back then...

[Teriz]

There is absolutely no connection between Void and the Shadowlands.
Death ≠ Void.

Again, the casual player isn't going to see a difference.

You should accept that the Draenor Arc is completely closed.
There are so many other avenues to explore. Dragonflight has opened many doors.

Uh it's not completely dead since Yrel is still out there.

I do agree that DF has opened other doors, but a light invasion seems like the most obvious, since the set up is already there, and we as players have never went against a light-affiliated adversary before. You also have an opening to implement two very popular races into the playable column.

[Nightshade711]

Neither was Garrosh. He got ported there by a Bronze Dragon. Evil Chromie could make it happen as a final middle finger for stopping their plans. It's really as simple as that.

Yeah, a bronze dragon… using an artifact that no longer exists.

Yeah, because we're not dealing with it constantly like we did in 8.3 and in Shadowlands.

And to a casual gamer (the majority of WoW's audience) they're not going to see the difference between Void and Death. They'll just see more gloomy colors and lots of shadow magic flying around. Heck, even the Ethereal were present in Shadowlands.

I’m pretty sure everyone knows the difference between death and void. Color palettes are completely different lmao… this is made clear in Abberus.

And there were no Ethereals in SL, as brokers aren’t Ethereals.

Why weren't Naga added in BFA?

They didn’t fit criteria for an allied race as they don’t share a skeleton with anything currently playable.

As for Ogres, they just didn't have a good reason to be brought into the factions. With the Maghar Orcs joining the Horde in BFA via fleeing Yrel's army is a good precedence to fall back on, especially if Draenor is dying and they need a new home. Heck, even bring Rexxar into the mix to help out.

There are Ogre factions were always part of The Horde. Just like the Dark Iron were part of The Alliance during/after Cataclysm.
There’s a reason why they chose Goblins (a historically neutral race) over Ogres (a horde race) in Cataclysm.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

"Casual gamer" overused term and I'm sure people know the damn difference between Void and Death in WoW. >.>

[Teriz]

"I don't think people want to deal with more Shadow stuff after Shadowlands"

The Shadowlands are the Realm of Death, not the Realm of "Shadow", which is embodied VIA the Void and whatnot. Beyond name, and the Maw embodying despair and eternal Darkness, the Shadowlands are not Shadow.

The Void Lords, the Old Gods, Cosmic Void, stuff regarding the Rogues and "Shadow" or any type of Shade, the Dark, non existence, etc are all aspects of the influence of Shadow. The Void Lords are basically the "Pantheon of Shadow".

I understand the lore fine. I'm simply telling you that the casual player is not going to see a difference. They're going to see another shadow expansion and be instantly turned off. Especially if it goes cosmic, which seems to be indicated if Ethereals become playable.

[Nightshade711]

I understand the lore fine. I'm simply telling you that the casual player is not going to see a difference. They're going to see another shadow expansion and be instantly turned off.

Idk man, I think anybody with even a 1/4 of a brain cell can tell the difference between this:

And this


As I said… COMPLETELY different color palettes and themes.

Especially if it goes cosmic, which seems to be indicated if Ethereals become playable.

So a Shadowguard/Void invasion is cosmic but a Yrel/Light invasion isn’t?

[Teriz]

Idk man, I think anybody with even a 1/4 of a brain cell can tell the difference between this:

I think you're grossly overestimating the casual player.

As I said… COMPLETELY different color palettes and themes.

You really think an entire void expansion is going to look like the bottom picture? There's a reason the whole of Shadowlands doesn't look like Icecrown or Undercity.

So a Shadowguard/Void invasion is cosmic but a Yrel/Light invasion isn’t?

Yes, because if we're fighting the void, there's little doubt we're going to be taking the fight to them, which facilitates us doing cosmic junk. Again, you wanting the very cosmic Ethereals as a playable race backs that up.

You fight Yrel, you beat her on Azeroth, and that's it. Draenor isn't all that cosmic anyway, since multiple playable WoW races come from there.

[huth]

Yes, because if we're fighting the void, there's little doubt we're going to be taking the fight to them, which facilitates us doing cosmic junk. Again, you wanting the very cosmic Ethereals as a playable race backs that up.

You fight Yrel, you beat her on Azeroth, and that's it. Draenor isn't all that cosmic anyway, since multiple playable WoW races come from there.

Having to chase Yrel to the Spires of Light or whatever would facilitate it just as much. You're just making random assumptions on what the respective plots would be.

And Ethereals aren't any more cosmic than Orcs. They're from the Material Plane just like the latter.

[Nightshade711]

I think you're grossly overestimating the casual player.

Pretty sure the casual player can tell the difference between black chains & death and purple lovecraft tentacles.

You really think an entire void expansion is going to look like the bottom picture? There's a reason the whole of Shadowlands doesn't look like Icecrown or Undercity.

Of course not, we’ve seen plenty of instances of the void that didn’t look like the bottom picture. (Each of the Old Gods for example. The Cosmic Void in Abberus, and everything else about the void we’ve seen)

Yes, because if we're fighting the void, there's little doubt we're going to be taking the fight to them, which facilitates us doing cosmic junk. Again, you wanting the very cosmic Ethereals as a playable race backs that up.

You fight Yrel, you beat her on Azeroth, and that's it. Draenor isn't all that cosmic anyway, since multiple playable WoW races come from there.

You can fight the Rafaam/Void Ethereals on Azeroth just like you can fight Yrel/Light Draenei on Azeroth.

Ethereals are just about as cosmic as the Naaru and the Draenei with their spaceships.

[Teriz]

Having to chase Yrel to the Spires of Light or whatever would facilitate it just as much. You're just making random assumptions on what the respective plots would be.

We don't need to chase Yrel to whatever locus you're talking about. We could even fight her in Stormwind if we want to get really grounded.

And Ethereals aren't any more cosmic than Orcs. They're from the Material Plane just like the latter.

I disagree. That looks like a galactic ghost.

- - - Updated - - -

/snip

Alright, alright. No need for a redundant back and forth. We'll see what's coming in less than 6 months.

[Nightshade711]

We don't need to chase Yrel to whatever locus you're talking about. We could even fight her in Stormwind if we want to get really grounded.





I disagree. That looks like a galactic ghost.

Yes. Fighting time traveling intergalactic space goats with the aid of cosmic forces is grounded.

[huth]

We don't need to chase Yrel to whatever locus you're talking about. We could even fight her in Stormwind if we want to get really grounded.

Based purely on your preconceived notions of what each respective expansion's story would be like. We could have a Void expansion that is entirely set on Azeroth, or a Light expansion with Yrel as the central character that isn't. You have not provided anything to show otherwise.

Yes, we could fight Yrel in Stormwind. We could also fight whoever the Void picks as its champion du jour in Stormwind. That's not an argument for or against either. Anything you claim here can easily be thrown back at you.

Also, what the Ethereals look like is immaterial. They're from the same plane as Azeroth and Draenor. They also first showed up in TBC, which wasn't a very Cosmic expansion.