Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Thomir]

I hope they don't, and I hope Metzen backtracks hard on Danuser's attempt to downgrade his Creation from an Omniscient lore compendium to just an in-universe diary of the Titans.

Especially since many parts of the Chronicles are detailed accounts of a person's psyche that a Constellar wouldn't know about. How does a Constellar know what was going through Lich King Arthas' mind or what Illidan was thinking?

That unfortunately won't happen. The first chronicles clearly states that the Titans are benevolent and that their mission is to protect life across the cosmos. It has to be in-universe and biased towards them otherwise Danuser's 'Titans bad' plot, which it really seems like they're continuing with in the World Soup Saga, would collapse.

[Varodoc]

That unfortunately won't happen. The first chronicles clearly states that the Titans are benevolent and that their mission is to protect life across the cosmos. It has to be in-universe and biased towards them otherwise Danuser's 'Titans bad' plot, which it really seems like they're continuing with in the World Soup Saga, would collapse.

And I suppose that the Titans also sent microchips inside Arthas' brain?

Otherwise I cannot explain this passage:





I mean, if the Titans are supposed to be the final villains of the first 20 years of WoW lore, then giving them the ability to literally read someone's mind seems fittingly overpowered.

[Cheezits]

I think Chronicle would be a lot less controversial if the devs just said "whoever wrote the book was right at the time but we change things"

[Kiivar86]

For anyone interested, Portergauge on Twitter is looking through NPCs that got added into the files that look to be tied to the Draenei and Troll heritage armor quests.

Draenei-wise, looks to involve Auchindoun to some degree. D'ore, the naaru interred in Auchindoun is one, bunch of Soulpriest NPCs, deceased Exarchs including Maladaar, Vigilants (real happy to see those, I love their design).

Troll-wise, bunch of new or unused loa (Kevo ya Siti - Loa of Stealth, Lukou - Loa of Regeneration, Jani again, Har'koa who is Loque'nahak's mate), Mueh'zala's back (titled Imprisoned Loa of Death for what its worth) and some NPC that's an avatar of his, Bwonsamdi of course.

I'm certainly excited, especially for the draenei.

[Thomir]

I wish I could play the Draenei heritage quest as a Lightforged.

[exochaft]

I think Chronicle would be a lot less controversial if the devs just said "whoever wrote the book was right at the time but we change things"

I think even then there'd still be just as much controversy. When you put out a book (or three) and tell your customers that it's basically a compedium of all the actual lore in the timeframe the books cover, that's what you expect it to be. To retroactively say "nah, it wasn't what we told you, it's just subjective stuff that may not be true"... you accomplish two things: you waste peoples time/money, and you instill the idea in said customers that there's no guarantee that anything you're told from that point on is the truth so why bother getting invested in the lore.

Personally, I felt both of those things when they announced that the Chronicle books weren't lore anymore, and it was just a sign of what was to come in terms of the lore they're trying to shove down people's throats now. At that point, I gave up buying anything outside the game for extra lore because Blizz had shown at that point that you're gambling whether it'll be what you want or not. Also didn't help that I started to care less and less about the game's lore due to the combination of the Chronicles debacle and the direction/execution of the story/lore in the game at the time. Unfortunately, I wanted to be invested in the game's lore, but Blizz's actions made it clear that one shouldn't bother because it may all just be subjective or change in the end (depending upon the mood of whoever is in charge of writing at the time).

[Raetary]

I hope they give a face to the in-universe author of Chronicles. It must be a constellar, maybe even Algalon?

They'd have to make one up first, as no such author exists.

[Lady Atia]

That unfortunately won't happen. The first chronicles clearly states that the Titans are benevolent and that their mission is to protect life across the cosmos. It has to be in-universe and biased towards them otherwise Danuser's 'Titans bad' plot, which it really seems like they're continuing with in the World Soup Saga, would collapse.

"Titans bad" plot was already there in Uldaman and Ulduar, you just didn't want to see it.

[Varodoc]

"Titans bad" plot was already there in Uldaman and Ulduar, you just didn't want to see it.

Ah Yes, a completely different lore team had already planted the seeds for this plotline in 2004 and 2008, literal decades before it actually played a role. Because that makes sense.

[Jaggler]

Ah Yes, a completely different lore team had already planted the seeds for this plotline in 2004 and 2008, literal decades before it actually played a role. Because that makes sense.

That's not what they're saying.
They're saying that the titans being a purely benevolent force was not something that was ever the case.

[Varodoc]

That's not what they're saying.
They're saying that the titans being a purely benevolent force was not something that was ever the case.

You can count the "purely benevolent forces" in the Warcraft setting on the fingers of one hand, despite Blizzard's attempt to turn this into Warcraft: the Avengers where everyone is a good hero. If you dig deep enough, you'll find dirt for every major faction.

The Titans objectively have helped Azeroth far more times than they have "harmed" it.

The Titan Keepers in Ulduar helped the players defeat Yogg-Saron and save Azeroth.

The Titan powers in Cataclysm allowed the Dragon Aspects to empower Thrall/Dragon Soul, destroy Deathwing, and save Azeroth.

The Titans themselves in Legion saved the players and allowed them to defeat Argus the Unmaker and save pretty much the entire Cosmos.

On top of the fact that it was the Titanic Pillars of Creation that closed the Demonic breach and ended the largest Legion invasion in history.

Finally, it was the Titanic Forge of Origination that destroyed N'Zoth in BfA and once again saved Azeroth.

I fail to see how these guys are the Enemy. As opposed to, you know, the tentacle fleshy blobs of evil that have tried to genocide the planet since the beginning.

This "Titans bad!!! Titans final villain!!!" is just revisionist nonsense from a New Gen. that has no respect for Metzen. I suspect that they will strong-arm Metzen into going along with their nonsense that Aman'thul is the secret evil mastermind.

[Jaggler]

You can count the "purely benevolent forces" in the Warcraft setting on the fingers of one hand, despite Blizzard's attempt to turn this into Warcraft: the Avengers where everyone is a good hero. If you dig deep enough, you'll find dirt for every major faction.

The Titans objectively have helped Azeroth far more times than they have "harmed" it.

The Titan Keepers in Ulduar helped the players defeat Yogg-Saron and save Azeroth.

The Titan powers in Cataclysm allowed the Dragon Aspects to empower Thrall/Dragon Soul, destroy Deathwing, and save Azeroth.

The Titans themselves in Legion saved the players and allowed them to defeat Argus the Unmaker and save pretty much the entire Cosmos.

On top of the fact that it was the Titanic Pillars of Creation that closed the Demonic breach and ended the largest Legion invasion in history.

Finally, it was the Titanic Forge of Origination that destroyed N'Zoth in BfA and once again saved Azeroth.

I fail to see how these guys are the Enemy. As opposed to, you know, the tentacle fleshy blobs of evil that have tried to genocide the planet since the beginning.

This "Titans bad!!! Titans final villain!!!" is just revisionist nonsense from a New Gen. that has no respect for Metzen. I suspect that they will strong-arm Metzen into going along with their nonsense that Aman'thul is the secret evil mastermind.

You seem to lack reading comprehension to a degree which makes further discussion fruitless tbh. If you don't want to get the point, It's useless.

[Varodoc]

You seem to lack reading comprehension to a degree which makes further discussion fruitless tbh. If you don't want to get the point, It's useless.

You have no point.

All you said is that the Titans are not a purely benevolent force, which everyone already knew. Very insightful.

But, guess what, even Anduin Wrynn or Jaina Proudmoore are not "Purely benevolent forces". That doesn't make them villains. So YOU are the one missing the point, like this New gen. that tarnished Metzen's craft.

[Alanar]

Looks like one of Metzen's first acts since his grand return is rectifying the terrible mistake: "Chronicles are irrelevant as they are just the Titans' diary."

It will be interesting to see how Metzen handles the BfA-SL plot arc, since he wasn't there for that mess.

Had Metzen been in the team back then, that mess probably would have been averted in the first place. All direction and logic was lost when Metzen left.

Let's see if Metzen can try to make sense of Afrasiabi AND DANUSER's clusterfuck.

Still suprise me people actually believe this. That one person can change the world. We have a literal avenger saga copy and you act as this has never been done and that one man will save the world.

Yes hes an icon, but please dude get a damn grip on life. So many factors come into it and how these things work in the end, not just one guy.. projects dont come together like that.

[Black Rider]

Look what's back!
Yay! <3
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1506731910/

[Echil46]

You have no point.

All you said is that the Titans are not a purely benevolent force, which everyone already knew. Very insightful.

But, guess what, even Anduin Wrynn or Jaina Proudmoore are not "Purely benevolent forces". That doesn't make them villains. So YOU are the one missing the point, like this New gen. that tarnished Metzen's craft.

The point is, we don't know everything, and because we don't know everything, it is all subject to change in whatever direction Blizzard wanna go. Though experiment of that :

Act 1 - You come across a hunting party. Hunters have gathered a group of cute puppies, and released them in a closed park where they'll be hunted down one by one. There, you meet two people : a stranger who've been following the hunters, trying to rescue the puppies, and a hunter who's at the breaking point and decides they're done with the hunting. You, the rescuer and the reformed hunter go through hell to save the puppies.

Who's the bad guy, who's the hero, and is there a pure benevolent force ?

Act 2 - Turns out the rescuer only wanted to rescue one puppy. He's the one who sold the whole lot to the hunters to begin with, because he was experimenting on/torturing them. He had a successful operation on one of the puppies, which he mistakenly sold with the rest of the litter. Now, you and the reformed hunter have to go through hell to rescue the puppy and all the remaining test subjects.

Again. Who's the bad guy, who's the hero, and is there a pure benevolent force ?

Act 3 - Turns out the puppy is the host to a extremely dangerous parasite which could wipe out the world, built and financed by people, some of whom hunted the puppies in Act 1. The rescuer was part of the team who designed the parasite, and his experiments were aiming to neutralize the parasite without killing the host. The reformed hunter is contaminated, the rescuer is dead. You're the only one left, and you have to go through hell to save the whole world and destroy the parasite.

Again. Who's the bad guy, who's the hero, and is there a pure benevolent force ?

[Varodoc]

The point is, we don't know everything,

Because of bad writing.

When Metzen was at the helm, we pretty much knew everything, as the Chronicles were the Almighty Lore Compendium that no one could defy.

Crazy theories like "The Titans/Eonar are bad!" were considered wild, illogical, and pushed to the fringe of the speculation world. No one really took them seriously. This was back in 2018/2019, before the Great Retcon of the Chronicles from Danuser.

It's ever since this new team made up mostly of Danuser and New Gen. youngsters that the original course of the lore was deviated.

Metzen's story was simple and straightforward (hence why it was successful and beloved).

ACT I: The Legion has returned! Quick! Gather the Titanic Pillars of Creation, because the Titanic Good Guy McGuffins are the only way to save Azeroth! Oh No, Gul'dan has the last Titan Good Guy McGuffin we need! Kill him!

ACT II: Nice! You have gathered all the Good Guy/Titan Pillars of Creation! Now use them to close the breach and end the invasion once and for all!

ACT III: Oh Nice! JUST AS WE EXPECTED, JUST AS WE IMAGINED, the Titans and their artifacts saved Azeroth! Now go to Argus, team up with the Titan Pantheons, and defeated the Legion (True Villain, NOT the Titans) once and for all!

A simple and straightforward story. No twist, no bullshit, no "Actually from a certain point of view the Titans were the real villains all along" nonsense. A simple and easy to understand story, the Metzen classic. The Titans are Good, the Legion are Bad, Simple.

The New Gen. team makes a presumptuous story. They pretend like the Titans were the villains all along, but forget that Metzen had the Titans save the world and end the Demons with their powers and artifacts in Legion.

Never forget this: It is thanks to the Titans and their Plot McGuffins that Azeroth didn't fall to the Legion.

The Titans must be the most incompetent Villains in history, because they constantly save Azeroth and its people.

[Dracullus]

Can't wait for Alpha to see how far they want to go with Warbands. What we have confirmed:

- special bank for all chars
- new login screen (chars from every server, campfire for 4 favourite alts)
- transmog is learned no matter if your class can use this item or not
- account wide reputations (at least TWW/DF at launch, rest TBD)
- account wide achievements and achiev progress
- extra item drops with lower item level that you can send to alt
- account wide map/flight path exploration

What I still wait for:

- fully account wide professions - if not possible, at least account wide recipes book, so you don't have to learn any profession twice
- weapon transmog applied for both slot at once with combinations that your spec can use (so for example Mage could put Staff transmog over
- details about farming set items for other classes in old raids
- more account wide questlines (with option to repeat them any time) + more options to skip non-repeatable quests, especially in main city - to avoid mess in Valdrakken with
ton of fluff quests you have no intention to repeat
- option to save & load your action bars, currently possible via addon, would be nice as build in feature
- probably unlikely, but I would love if gold was just account wide like in Diablo
- option to look into stats about your alts any time, in general I would love if Altoholic addon would become obsolete.

Anything I missed?

[Lady Atia]

Can't wait for Alpha to see how far they want to go with Warbands. What we have confirmed:

- special bank for all chars
- new login screen (chars from every server, campfire for 4 favourite alts)
- transmog is learned no matter if your class can use this item or not
- account wide reputations (at least TWW/DF at launch, rest TBD)
- account wide achievements and achiev progress
- extra item drops with lower item level that you can send to alt
- account wide map/flight path exploration

What I still wait for:

- fully account wide professions - if not possible, at least account wide recipes book, so you don't have to learn any profession twice
- weapon transmog applied for both slot at once with combinations that your spec can use (so for example Mage could put Staff transmog over
- details about farming set items for other classes in old raids
- more account wide questlines (with option to repeat them any time) + more options to skip non-repeatable quests, especially in main city - to avoid mess in Valdrakken with
ton of fluff quests you have no intention to repeat
- option to save & load your action bars, currently possible via addon, would be nice as build in feature
- probably unlikely, but I would love if gold was just account wide like in Diablo
- option to look into stats about your alts any time, in general I would love if Altoholic addon would become obsolete.

Anything I missed?

Accountwide gold would literally kill BMAH participation for any but a few whales, making it even worse than it's currently.

[Dracullus]

Accountwide gold would literally kill BMAH participation for any but a few whales, making it even worse than it's currently.

It's ridiculous you present argument against relevant for 1% while it's QoL change relevant for everyone. Not to mention it's easily avoidable, just put cap on BMAH auctions.