Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Marlamin]

Remember how that sounded so cool, and is now basically meaningless because they layed off hundreds of people between Blizzcon & now? I don't think they have "more people than ever" working on 12.0 anymore.

Barely anyone on the WoW team has been let go and if they were they weren't the type of dev working on content (or a dev at all), I think that more people working on the next expansion than ever is still very much correct although I'm sure there's a bit of a motivation dip right now.

Before you say "they said expansion content was not affected by the layoffs" that was clearly a lie, because they layed off a lot of asset designers. Those aren't the people making classic or late dragonflight content. Those are expansion jobs.

As you edited that in minutes after the above post, I'd love to see a source for "a lot of asset designers".

When a developer says "the layoffs will not affect future releases" there's zero reason to believe that's the truth. (Because that's what they always say)

I'm basing this off of what people I've seen being laid off as well as statements from colleagues on their team not being affected, not on what any PR blurb said.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I mean they're working within the parameters of 18 months production timeline rather than 24 months. Its' going to be harder to deliver a great product than ever before in WoW's long winded production history.

Its just a shame Blizzard decided to keep this hidden away from their audience until Alpha/Beta interviews may provide a clarification if they are kind enough. But, unfortunately it benefits them more to stay quiet that we are no longer a 24 month cycle product and keep it a surprise for 11.2 end of The War Within.

[Cheezits]

No, you're right. I re-read it and it does specifically say it is an event for patch 10.2.6 of Dragonflight, available to all players with a subscription.

So WoW Modern, but not on the Dragon Isles I guess.

Which checks out with a Plunder Isle patch that is completely divorced from Dragonflight, but it feels incredibly unlikely we are getting a new landmass. Based on the quality of 10.2.5, and their post-expac reliance on "shit that's already in the files/doesn't require the art team" it will probably just be long questline puzzle with some freebie low-effort stuff (Druid of the Flame skintone, Bakar mounts)

I think people are mad and disappointed about the size/scope of the post-expac content, but it's still content, so it's not like they are lying. A single questline that rewards a mount and tmog is content.

Heritage quests will be one each, Harbinger quests may just be an hour tops like Gilneas (if that), Pandamonium may just be an entire expansion rehash through timewalking. They don't have creator devs for these patches and have to cobble together stuff.

[Reive]

That frustration is understandable, I think this is due to pretty much only a part of the open-world/systems teams only still being on Dragonflight and everyone else being on TWW, its patches and some already on Midnight (yup).

i don't like this tbh. their approach is delivering faster content with no depth or quality. we're getting less features in favor low quality events and storylines.

[Cheezits]

i don't like this tbh. their approach is delivering faster content with no depth or quality. we're getting less features in favor low quality events and storylines.

As opposed to no content? Because that is the alternative, and I doubt these tiny patches are taking away from TWW/Midnight development.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I mean I like the Minor Patch spam that happened in Dragonflight since it suits my playstyle more, but I also recognize that the Major Patches for Dragonflight cannot be the norm going forward.

We need strong Major Patches with bold ideas, creative output and concepts.

The Minor Patches cannot take the role of Major Patches. I think having this surprise concept for Major Patch would be way better received than doing this with a Minor Patch after you cut the expansion abruptly after the Tree Story pivot in a Dragon focused expansion and a miserable 10+ year story conclusion to Gilneas being reclaimed done in the span of a 15 minute questchain.

Obviously, I also recognize that Minor Patch Spam will at some point become a detriment and if they are going to keep spamming them at the current frequency and even increase frequency due to the removal of future Major Patches then we're going in a very weird territory with a much more social, RP, Hangout World environment than a Progression style MMORPG.

[Cheezits]

I mean I like the Minor Patch spam that happened in Dragonflight since it suits my playstyle more, but I also recognize that the Major Patches for Dragonflight cannot be the norm going forward.

We need strong Major Patches with bold ideas, creative output and concepts.

The Minor Patches cannot take the role of Major Patches. I think having this surprise concept for Major Patch would be way better received than doing this with a Minor Patch after you cut the expansion abruptly after the Tree Story pivot in a Dragon focused expansion.

BFA tried that, it failed horribly, and every major patch after was fairly standard. It's not feasible to experiment for big patches that are supposed to hold players for months, because if most players dont like it, Blizz can't just repair it in a snap and have to waste minor/major patch time to fix their mistakes.

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Obviously, I also recognize that Minor Patch Spam will at some point become a detriment and if they are going to keep spamming them at the current frequency and even increase frequency due to the removal of future Major Patches then we're going in a very weird territory with a much more social, RP, Hangout World environment than a Progression style MMORPG.

If anything it will get better once players reign in their expectations for post-expansion content. These baby patches are very very different than Forbidden Reach and Dawn.

I'm sure that mid-expansion patches will be decently sized in TWW, but once the story is over, the devs have to focus on the next expansion.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

BFA tried that, it failed horribly, and every major patch after was fairly standard. It's not feasible to experiment for big patches that are supposed to hold players for months, because if they dont like it, they can't just repair it and have to waste minor patch time to fix their mistakes.

Sure, but they still experimented and again I am not talking about System Design in these Major Patches. I'm talking more Evergreen Feature development and more diversity in the Major Patches than just Zone and Raid Copy & Paste.

If anything it will get better once players reign in their expectations for post-expansion content. These baby patches are very very different than Exiles Reach and Dawn.

I'm sure that mid-expansion patches will be decently sized in TWW, but once the story is over, the devs have to focus on the next expansion.

Okay, this is such a ridiculous thing because of the way game development works.

1) I mean Blizzard want people to get accustomed to this new reality because it suits their business interest. If players are happy and acceptable of 15 minute quest chains and quirky stuff instead of a Zone and Raid then they can cut the budget going forward.

2) Either, we have to assume that all planning for expansions is done within the expansion or we have to assess the fact that The War Withins' ending point has already been established as being 11.1/11.2 due to their coyness of recognizing the sensitivity of answering straightforward what is going on with The War Withins' major patch amount.

3) The story is over when they say its over, considering their track record and how we ended up at the top of Amirdrassil this does lead me to believe they don't have the best interest at heart for the Intellectual Property or the consumer in that regard so I'd say that to assess their decision of ending the story as anything but for business interest is quite silly at this point in time.

[Cheezits]

2) Either, we have to assume that all planning for expansions is done within the expansion or we have to assess the fact that The War Withins' ending point has already been established as being 11.1/11.2 due to their coyness of recognizing the sensitivity of answering straightforward what is going on with The War Withins' major patch amount.

They will never, ever say this for obvious reasons but your safest bet is to assume that all expansion stories moving forward will end by 10.2 or the next mid-patch. Because they have done it twice now and have gotten away with it.

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Wouldn't surprise me if it's called something along the lines of "The Stranglethorn Bonanza" or something, involving players running around STV for a month to discover secrets, fight pirates, and perhaps even unlock special abilities.

I just hope they bother to rehaul STV if this is the case. Would make sense with how they have talked about a very slow progressive revamp "when it makes sense", and also people running around crappy-looking Cata all patch would just look bad for marketing.

[Reive]

As opposed to no content? Because that is the alternative, and I doubt these tiny patches are taking away from TWW/Midnight development.

it's the opposite actually. their need to develop multiple new expansions at the same time is taking away from the current one. dragonflight was barebones. major patches were the usual 1 raid (with less bosses than in the past), a new season for m+ and arena and and a lazy open world event while minor ones were mostly about low quality 10 minutes long questlines+ some catchup event. in all this, the .3 major patch is now gone in favor of fated season

[Cheezits]

it's the opposite actually. their need to develop multiple new expansions at the same time is taking away from the current one. dragonflight was barebones. major patches were the usual 1 raid (with less bosses than in the past), a new season for m+ and arena and and a lazy open world event while minor ones were mostly about low quality 10 minutes long questlines+ some catchup event. in all this, the .3 major patch is now gone in favor of fated season

Yeah, the 3 major patch model was likely determined to be unfeasible. I wouldn't be surprised if they have hard data that not enough players engage through a 3-patch expansion to keep going with them.

It's not coming back outside of a sheer miracle. Faster patches and expansions, even if they are smaller, bring more subs and engagement and thus keep the game alive, albeit maybe not in the state people would like.

It's not quite ESO mode and a far cry from maintenance mode.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

They will never, ever say this for obvious reasons but your safest bet is to assume that all expansion stories moving forward will end by 10.2 or the next mid-patch. Because they have done it twice now and have gotten away with it.

I mean, that's my assumption but then next time its' 11.1 and welp. I guess its only 1 Major Patch before next expansion.

Obviously, they said as much. Ion did misspeak once that the Patch cadence would include BFA, SL, DF cadence in his assessment only to change to SL/Dragonflight cadence going forward.

So yeah, I mean I don't really have a problem if this sticks but will it stick? I don't know. The whole marketing for The War Within and The War Within itself is just.. So icky. The War Within can just be abandoned relatively quickly due to Midnights intense "New Sales Record" energy. It will be very tempting for the executive side to make a quick exit with 11.1 and then they can cut expansions at the first Major patch and get praised when they don't.

[milkmustache]

Given how Muffinus seems to be quite involved, I am also inclined to believe it is some type of mystery event with a questline. I think it'll be amazing for a certain type of player, and a huge letdown for others.

Using the old world in new ways seems to be something they want to do, based on the blog post and Ion's statements from last year.

Wouldn't surprise me if it's called something along the lines of "The Stranglethorn Bonanza" or something, involving players running around STV for a month to discover secrets, fight pirates, and perhaps even unlock special abilities.

Maybe it's Tanaris/Gadgetzan based. We do our mystery questline, tango with pirates, but eventually it leads us to our discovery of the Isle of Dorn or a way there perhaps. That'd be a fun version of it. Events that progress the story into the next expansion, let the player feel like they're working towards getting there rather than just pre-patch invasion

[Kiivar86]

Just throwing stuff out there but an idea came to me, given the Timecap'n Hooktail infinite dragon thing and pirates, a Plunder Isle that maybe has other infinites existing in more than one time (hence being able to be interacted with by both classic and live) sounds possible.

Probably not it but I like the idea.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Most common Classic+ conceptualization has always been Booty Bay Revamp - Pirate themed whether it involves The Island of Doctor Lapidis, Plunder Isle or other South Sea Island concepts.

So, I don't know maybe they are counting on it getting them onboard but yeah I don't get it either.

Either that or its a Concept that involves both Classic and Retail getting Pirate concepts into the game at the same time.

No idea how the fuck the Vampire Survivor mode fits in?

Maybe its a Pirate Themed Vampire Survivor gamemode? Its really weird, because of the vague tweeting having chicken reference attached to this so is it some Pirate Themed Vampire Survivor clone with Ship travel towards each level? I don't know, food for thought.

[Cheezits]

Most common Classic+ conceptualization has always been Booty Bay Revamp - Pirate themed whether it involves The Island of Doctor Lapidis, Plunder Isle or other South Sea Island concepts.

So, I don't know maybe they are counting on it getting them onboard but yeah I don't get it either.

Either that or its a Concept that involves both Classic and Retail getting Pirate concepts into the game at the same time.

It would be very funny if the reason it is a secret is because they are ripping a popular Classic+ idea and putting it into retail, basically confirming that Classic+ will never happen (which will cause rage upon reveal).

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

It would be very funny if the reason it is a secret is because they are ripping a popular Classic+ idea and putting it into retail, basically confirming that Classic+ will never happen (which will cause rage upon reveal).

I mean SoD is Classic+ in all but name. We're getting new Endgame content at the end of the level bracketing and Classic Raids. Not to speak of all the original content already existing in SoD.

My main thoughts at this point are:

1) Vampire Survivor with Ship Travel between levels and Evergreen which means they can add to it more and more with new updates going forward.

2) Its something silly like a Pirate Costume and Pirate Flag that waves and interacts with physics in a tiny questchain.

3) Its Plunder Isle (Lol, art asset cost go bing. Too high for the budget we're operating under these days.)

4) Reuse of Stranglethorn Vale for some Booty Bay shenanigans in Retail. The Island of Doctor Lapidis added back to the game (?)

5) Secrets of Azeroth style thing but Pirate themed with exploration around Islands being important.

At least thats' where my thoughts are. It could also be so completely left field that it would be impossible to guess or a combination of several options.

[Cheezits]

I mean SoD is Classic+ in all but name. We're getting new Endgame content at the end of the level bracketing. Not to speak of all the original content already existing in SoD.

No new zones/geography reworks to my knowledge. If that happens in Retail instead that will spell out the future of SoD.

[doledippers]

honestly, i love the confidence they have in doing something like this. I think it demonstrates that theyve sorta rebuilt a better relationship with the community compared to where we were in shadowlands. I dont think they couldve gotten away with something like this in SL, nobody would trust them.

And while i am a bit concerned about the lack of PTR, i think the fact that they are planning around it, hopefully means they are more diligent with their internal tests to make up for the lack of public testing. At the end of the day, i think im ok with a somewhat bumpy launch if it means we get to truly have a non spoiled patch in retail

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

To be fair, if we ever did get a way to start a Hearthstone match within the client that'd be super sick. I doubt it will ever happen though, lol. I've always wanted that functionality of being able to duel WoW players in-game to a game of Hearthstone.

I don't know, Stranglethorn Vale lol?