Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Teriz]

I wonder if all of this then if there's a potential consequence of Goblins using void magic at some point. If kaja'mite is theoretically the blood of Y'shaarj, would the empowerment from void energies of a kaja'mite influenced race like goblins create some sort of far more eldritch evil of them?

Sounds like the perfect way to make Gallywix a viable raid boss. I would incorporate some tech into it too, to make it look like something out of a bad anime.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The Ancient Kalimdor map doesn't show mounds of flesh. It shows Old God realms. Regions of mountains, rivers and fields that they each controlled, presumably spreading their long tendrils below the ground.

I mean it’s a quaint idea but it falls apart when you look at the other chronicles artwork which shows us what the black empire actually looked like where you can infact see mountains off flesh.



And if any of them were going to have a underground bass it would be N’zoth who was called the deep one even in early chronicles I think.

[Enrif]

Your right, though looking at chronicles maps, BI should atleast have it to given proximity.


As for Zin if they were trying to set that up having the Gilblins have some would be an obvious way to do it, don’t remember if they had azerite, though if they did they would likely use it given that it’s power is what freed N’zoth.

BI, could, but then we could consider the trajectory. Like, was the corruption spread evenly, was it mostly directed in certain direction. We can't tell here.

And the Gilbins could actually be the result of the used up Kaja'mite, perhaps? Like, there was Kaja'mite, the Gilblins evolved from that, but there wasn't as much as the Goblins have.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah I was about to bring that up. The heart bleeds a dark purple/black substance as well while it pumps. And the puddle of goo that is all that remains of it is the same black-purple.

I think this throws a wrench in the idea that kaja'mite is just Y'shaarj blood, but not in the idea that Kaja'mite is Azerite that got corrupted.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

And the Gilbins could actually be the result of the used up Kaja'mite, perhaps? Like, there was Kaja'mite, the Gilblins evolved from that, but there wasn't as much as the Goblins have.

I’d think it would more so be that Gilblins are the natural outcome of what ever goblins were before given that they are pretty stupid and Kaja'mite is known for making goblins smart.

Hell Gilblins could even be the original as I don’t think we are ever shown it outside of hearthstone which could be none canon.

[Enrif]

I’d think it would more so be that Gilblins are the natural outcome of what ever goblins were before given that they are pretty stupid and Kaja'mite is known for making goblins smart.

Hell Gilblins could even be the original as I don’t think we are ever shown it outside of hearthstone which could be none canon.

I think it was hinted or even stated that with the shortage of Kaja'mite, goblins turn up less intelligent and they urgently need a new supply to not devolve.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I think it was hinted or even stated that with the shortage of Kaja'mite, goblins turn up less intelligent and they urgently need a new supply to not devolve.

I believe it’s said they get dumber but not they devolve.

It’s likely goblins with it are just on average smarter but you can still have genius level goblins without having any.

Like for example I sought the black fuse company in dranor or any goblin slave is regularly importing the stuff.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I mean that's probably the Black Empire at the height of its power. The book describes them as big ol mounds of flesh indeed.

What I'm saying is that maybe, as the war rages on for thousands of years, they were increasingly on the defense. So instead of having this major Black Empire going on, you've got Old Gods hiding beneath the ground, spreading their corruption as much as they can, hidden from sight, while sending their armies to attack different targets above.

That's what lead Eonar to seek different ways of going about it. Using Life, she'd cleanse the corruption, contain it or whatever. But Aman'Thul is proud and vain, so he takes it down.

Instead, his solution is to simply imprison everything.

well that works for the other oldgods, Y'shaarj was pretty buff and tough and was owning the Keepers which is why the Titans got involved in the first place.

Also actually checking chronicles, It's pretty clear he was still a big ol mountain when they came for him and he squared up to throw hands.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I know, I had a look at that chapter earlier today as well. But we know Chronicles is their POV. It says nothing about Elun'Ahir. We also know some big secret about the Titans is going to be revealed in the coming years.

I mean it seems more plausible that Elun'Ahir just doesn't have any thing to do with with Y'shaarj and could just be the course of say un'goro.

Why would the Dark Trolls evolve into Night Elves around the well, when Earthen infused by azerite just become sort of... earthier? Unless, of course, the waters of the well is spiked with World Tree juice.

Given that the Earthen lack flesh, I don't know why we'd expect them to react the same way as a troll.

[Viridiel]

If you look closely on the Ancient Kalimdor map, you can kind of make out where Un'goro crater is, and it looked pretty much the same as today (circular mountain range with some mountains in the middle).

Exactly the same, in fact. Obviously creative liberties are likely to be involved because the Chronicle map showed literally no terraforming whatsoever other than cleaning up the Well of Eternity, which goes against the text it's accompanying which says the titanforged changed much of the landscape. But even so, neither Un'Goro nor Sholazar nor even Moonglade accurately fit the description given of where Elun'Ahir was planted. It's possible that the hole has been filled in with earth to cover it up, but then that somewhat defeats the purpose of looking for crater-shaped areas to begin with.

As far as I'm concerned, the most likely candidates are the Coreway, the Well of Eternity, or somewhere on the other side of the planet. I personally think Occam's razor points to the other side of the planet, but I'm really inclined to go with the Well of Eternity with an associated conspiracy re Y'shaarj.

There are some strong arguments for the Coreway though. If G'hanir was planted in a location in the Dream that actually corresponds to a location on Azeroth (which I'm not entirely convinced is true), based on what we know it must be near Khaz Algar if not right on top of it (we're told Al'Akir's domain was surrounding the highest peak and we're told G'hanir was planted on the highest peak, and we know Al'Akir's domain was between Uldum and Pandaria). Now that doesn't necessarily mean anything because we have no reason to believe Elun'Ahir was planted in an area corresponding to G'hanir, but the Coreway is a huge conspicuous hole leading down to the core of the planet and apparently nobody really noticed it or did anything about it until some time in the past few thousand years despite the fact that the Highkeeper's home was right next to it. That means it was either hidden or recently appeared -- I can't think of anything that could've possibly caused a hole to the core of the planet after the Sundering that we wouldn't have heard about, and we know that Eonar had a good incentive to keep the hole hidden. That said, new lore could always pop up to provide an alternative explanation or adjust the timeline for the earthen.

It's worth noting that the old lore had Ra and/or the mogu having killed Y'shaarj, before the change in Chronicle. It's possible that the Coreway is where Y'shaarj burrowed down to the core and it shifted during the Sundering or the Cataclysm, and either the mogu covered it up because they had already turned against Ra, or Ra himself covered it up to hide the fact that Y'shaarj had actually reached the core of Azeroth. Another possibility again is that the Coreway is where Xal'atath's body was if she was indeed an Old God killed by her brothers, but that would've happened before the Sundering and I'm not sure why it would've been hidden until recently.

As a total aside, what if the Un'Goro crater is actually above Hallowfall and is the crystal's entry point? It's the only crater on the Chronicle maps and depending on how the zones of Khaz Algar are oriented, it's very possible that it lines up.

[Scyth]

I really hope we get news on more hero-talents this week!

[Valysar]

hopefully alpha is coming right after 10.2.6 (let's hope before)

[Fahrad Wagner]

hopefully alpha is coming right after 10.2.6 (let's hope before)

That's my hope as well

[Ersula]

Bunch of interesting ideas in here.

At work so can't write anything lengthy, but I like where you're going with it.

Re: the Shaping of Azeroth, I think they focused a lot on sort of... fixing up the coastal regions and oceans around Kalimdor, as well as below ground. I think they did it specifically to "order" it for the purpose of controlling the Old Gods and the worldsoul, i.e. turning it into Alcatraz. So many regular mountain ranges and stuff are likely unchanged since the days of the Elemental unrest, because altering those didn't serve the same purpose.

Are old gods weak against landmasses? If Titans can shape the planet like a world editor, why do they use Earthen for basic construction purposes?

The Titans hid away the Dragon Isles, Thros & The Elemental Planes. And Helya & Odyn uses that same mysterious method to hide away each other in turn in their own pocket dimensions as well. There might be other places, for all we know, as the Titans had many secrets. (I feel like we could have gotten an entirely new azeroth if one of the Incarnates just destroyed the devises keeping these places hidden & separate, as Uldorus does for the Dragon Isles.)

Anyway, my point is "The Shaping of Azeroth" is not a thing. It's not a term found anywhere in the game. It's vaguely referred to in one in-game book, not of azeroth but of a metaphorical description of the Titan's influence on planets in general. There is a song track titled "the Shaping of the World" but that's it.

[Valysar]

Almost forgot about Alpha. Crazy to think it might be here within a month!

What are you guys hoping to see in that initial batch of datamining?

My hopes are:

- Some epic, Holy Light-themed transmog sets from the Arathi.

- Serious updates to character customisation for several races, like they alluded to after Dracthyr set a new bar in DF. Like, new face options and hairstyles, tattoos and beards, and maybe even poses?

- The long-awaited new class/race combos (unless they're slated for 10.2.7).

- Some fundamental changes to Professions after the mishaps in DF.

- Obviously a bunch of colourful new pets and mounts.

- Perhaps some clues that slip through the cracks and tease content beyond 11.0, for speculation.

Some world revamp models
New mounts is always exciting as a collector
New character customizations
Removal of Professions rank
New NPC models

[Dracullus]

For me most interesting will be details how Warbands work, what exactly is account wide and what not - especially with stuff they didn't talk about like professions. Delves are unknown too, but in general it's just giving struture to world content, not something groundbreaking.

[Cheezits]

Definitely interested in the Evolved Nerubian model and seeing if they are expressive/being modeled with players in mind.

[milkmustache]

Definitely interested in the Evolved Nerubian model and seeing if they are expressive/being modeled with players in mind.

I really find it hard to imagine that they're not at least leaving the door open on it. Dracthyr have essentially eased the curve for what could be considered a playable race with their armor restrictions.

That whole discussion is still intriguing to me. There's been a lot of push back on the lack of transmog ability with the Dracthyr, but in the same sense they're also the most customizable race to date. It's entirely possible an evolved nerubian would meet the same standards.

I can't help but think of the discussion surrounding the Nightborne models in this context; Suramar is a favorite amongst many due to the look given to it and the Nightborne, yet when they became an allied race, the players were given a new model that was just a reskinned night elf with some slight changes. While nice in theory, this pretty much took away all of the things that made the Nightborne such a cool race to players. Their heritage armor hardly even matches the style of armor we see on NPCs.

I wonder what the reception would have been had Blizzard released a playable Nightborne with the NPC models with optional armor similar to the Dracthyr, but with some slight transmog restrictions. I'm not sure the conversation would change much, just swap argument points from "Doesn't look like the NPC model" to "Doesn't feel like a player model".

Of course, the best case scenario would have been a Nightborne player model that was far more similar to the NPC models with more armor options, but that wasn't the case.

It's just something that's been on my mind whenever we consider the possibility of these new humanoid nerubians entering the fray. Earthen look to have the most customizations aside from Dracthyr, definitely maintaining a standard in player customability, but I think it's a point of interest to discuss Blizzard's philosphy on creature player models in a post-Dracthyr WoW.

[Sondrelk]

I really find it hard to imagine that they're not at least leaving the door open on it. Dracthyr have essentially eased the curve for what could be considered a playable race with their armor restrictions.

That whole discussion is still intriguing to me. There's been a lot of push back on the lack of transmog ability with the Dracthyr, but in the same sense they're also the most customizable race to date. It's entirely possible an evolved nerubian would meet the same standards.

Any future race with armour restrictions similar to Dracthyr will inevitably have to face the simple question: "What is transmog if not player model customization?"
Sure, Dracthyr has loads of customization options, and I do enjoy the flexibility it offers. And while the Dracthyr armour you get as customization options are nice, they do feel like a crutch to avoid having to let the Dracthyr actually use transmog properly.

Maybe the debate surrounding Drachtyr would have been different if we had reason to believe that the early developers tweet regarding Evoker sets being visible in dragon form actually came true then we might have had a different outlook on things. But as it stands it just means Dracthyr are seemingly arbitrarily locked out of a large amount of content.
You can make lots of cool transmog with the options available currently. But are we to expect that each expansion going forward will add more customization options to Dracthyr to justify the chunk of transmog we never get to see in Dragon form?

[Murlocos]

Dracthyr were a total miss in my book in the customization department. My eyes don't register them as looking unique the way I can see two members of the same regular race look wildly different, especially in silhouette. Measuring their popularity is impossible when they not only have an exclusive class but also an exclusive playstyle within that class, but I can't imagine they'd be nearly as played if other races had access to evoker and dracthyr had most of the other classes. I don't want them to keep going down this route of transmog-limited races that feel like you're playing an NPC model even with all the options dracthyr have.

Allied races make this frustrating because it's another example of the "wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle" philosophy. Elves and now dwarves having their customization fragmented across multiple different races doesn't feel good. It feels like you're playing half a real race, watching your old base game race with their one page of options look more and more outdated. Or you get the BfA -> Shadowlands debacle where a bunch of people race changed to their allied race counterparts because they got more customization, then SL gave the base races more customization than them, then some of that got backported to the allied races after launch.

I think earthen are the thing I'm most puzzled about with TWW. So many allied races bombed in popularity and I can't see the 3rd dwarf variant faring much better. Feels like their biggest value is padding the feature list of the expansion.

[Cheezits]

The problem with Dracthyr type models is that if people don't like the base model, it doesn't matter that they are or aren't armor equippable. People have to like the base design to make up for that and Dracthyr didn't win in that regard. Neither did Mechagnomes. So it may or may not lead to fewer of those races down the road.

Earthern are likely only playable because they are encountered in the first quarter of the expansion and they were easy to fit in as a race. The actually requested player races don't fit into this expansion besides (classic) Nerubians. They could've made Dorn a Vrykul island just to shove Vrykul in, but eh. I like Dwarves more as it's more creative.

Nerubians may be the "real" race addition but won't be playable for a bit because of the work needed to make them a race. Whereas Earthen don't need as much work and can come first.

As for "why don't they just do another customization pass", they can't sell that so they didn't do it, IMO. They can't sell troll beards so it isn't their focus.