Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Enrif]

And people are already showing pushback against the direction of making both sides friendly.

Sorry, but these people can suck it, to say id friendly. The factions were one of, if not the worst thing ever added to WoW. Playerbases should never, ever be divided in such a way. Faction balance was an issues since classic, and until recently, it extremely hurt the game with forcing people to go to the side the most player are instead of playing races they would enjoy more. Without that stupid outdated and unnecessary system the game would have been for the better.

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Again, there's already people having a lot of criticism about DF's "Friendship/Feelings" stuff and how it doesn't make sense.

This has actually nothing to do with the factions(Horde/Allaince), as the faction are not part of the expansion. And honestly, having a story about peace and coming together as a family isn't that bad, especially for the dragons, who started out as pretty much a family fighting a bigger threat.

[Reive]

Sorry, but these people can suck it, to say id friendly. The factions were one of, if not the worst thing ever added to WoW. Playerbases should never, ever be divided in such a way. Faction balance was an issues since classic, and until recently, it extremely hurt the game with forcing people to go to the side the most player are instead of playing races they would enjoy more. Without that stupid outdated and unnecessary system the game would have been for the better.

factions and faction pride was one of the coolest aspects of wow. since they started pushing for horde and ally to be friends the game lost its identity.

[Enrif]

I don't believe for a second that the Elves will achieve full peace with each other, at best we can only expect a temporary truce rather than anything permanent. Hoping for faction neutrality (or even worse, a 3rd faction) is never gonna go well. (The 3rd faction option is even worse in a pvp setting as all BGs and what not have to be built with the 3rd faction in mind and that 3rd extra faction is going to be the most dominant of the other two... i.e. Elder Scrolls Online.)

I'm just very skeptical about the whole thing and people are really expecting too much out of it.

There doesn't need perfect peace, if they go neutral together.

It will probably not a 3rd faction in the same vein as Horde/Alliance. It would more than likely be a permanent "Mercenary Mode" where you can always match up with any of the other two factions. In PvP you would be any of the sides that needs more players.

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factions and faction pride was one of the coolest aspects of wow. since they started pushing for horde and ally to be friends the game lost its identity.

bullshit. faction pride killed community more than it helped and made it a toxic swamp. Ever heard of the hostility is caused that went even so far that it reached real life, with bad consequences?

[Scyth]

I enjoyed factions being a thing for a while, it made sense until at least WotLK. But now? Couldn't care less about it. It's been done to death, it's not interesting and doesn't really make sense anymore.
That's not to say they shouldn't do some racial conflicts from time to time as obviously those won't completely disappear (there's obviously going to be an Orc or Human who goes off the rails and does some crazy shit at some point) but faction stuff just doesn't make sense in the current game imo.

[Viridiel]

I do wonder if dracthyr and earthen are a sign that new races (allied or otherwise) will be both factions from this point. I think I'd be OK with that as long as they make some adjustments to character creation -- every time I make a "neutral" race I forget to choose a faction and end up with the wrong one. I suspect they might overhaul character creation (and the race system in general) because it's already bursting at the seams.

We're still missing allied race equivalents for worgen and undead, who happen to be heavily thematically tied. Anything spooky would work for both, although I think particularly something vampiric and/or nathrezim-related.

[Pyrophax]

factions and faction pride was one of the coolest aspects of wow. since they started pushing for horde and ally to be friends the game lost its identity.

From WC3 and every expansion after it? Faction pride=/=faction war.

[Varodoc]

Blizzard is on full "cutting costs" mode and has fully taken the lazy route when it comes to world-building.

Until BfA included, the world-building was achieved by creating two separate questing experiences for the two factions, with Legion being an exception (aside from Stormheim). That was the key of the world-building.

You are Alliance, you will have certain quests in Outland/Northrend/Pandaria and certain hubs that the Horde doesn't have. Vice versa for the Horde.

The pinnacle of this was BfA, where the two factions did not even share the "main" continent. Alliance had outposts in Zandalar, but their main continent was Kul Tiras.

Notice how there was no faction war in Outland/Northrend/Draenor, and yet Blizzard still made different hubs and questlines for the two factions.

Faction war =/= Faction identity

In hindsight, all the people back in BfA who were doomsaying about the "Unifaction" were proven right. The world-building of the game has gone to shit since Shadowlands, where the questing experience is just unified because everyone is now part of Azeroth: The Avengers.

I would love if the Alliance and Horde had different entry points to Quel'Thalas like they did for Northrend or Pandaria, but I also know that there is a 99% chance that the Unifaction plot will continue, and Azeroth: The Avengers will have the same questing experience in Quel'Thalas.

I wonder how they'll handle Northrend in TLT, since the Alliance and Horde DO have different entry points there. Will they finally go back to making different questlines for the two factions, as opposed to a single questline for The Avengers Unifaction?

[Enrif]

Did anyone analyse those runic shapes on the Light crystal in Hallowfall? They like very naaruesque.

Wouldn't it be cool if, assuming the crystal is one of those shards of light which were flung out into the physical universe when the cosmos was young and then proceeded to infuse worlds with the spark of Life, this crystal in particular held some sort of consciousness?

Not a naaru per se. But like, imagine a young spirit, a female, innocent, defenseless spirit, a being of pure Light and energy. 5th element vibes, kinda, but more ethereal. Smashes into the rock we know as Azeroth, and sort of becomes the worldsoul?

Do you have an image of these runes? My current hypotheses for the crystal, it is the same thing as Oshu'gun, a naaru ship crashlanded on azeroth in the ancient past, and landed in the ocean, instead of land, or it was sunk beneath the earth during the sundering.
Oshu'gun has also runes around it, so it could make sense that they are similar or even the same

[Reive]

Blizzard is on full "cutting costs" mode and has fully taken the lazy route when it comes to world-building.

Until BfA included, the world-building was achieved by creating two separate questing experiences for the two factions, with Legion being an exception (aside from Stormheim). That was the key of the world-building.

You are Alliance, you will have certain quests in Outland/Northrend/Pandaria and certain hubs that the Horde doesn't have. Vice versa for the Horde.

The pinnacle of this was BfA, where the two factions did not even share the "main" continent. Alliance had outposts in Zandalar, but their main continent was Kul Tiras.

Notice how there was no faction war in Outland/Northrend/Draenor, and yet Blizzard still made different hubs and questlines for the two factions.

Faction war =/= Faction identity

In hindsight, all the people back in BfA who were doomsaying about the "Unifaction" were proven right. The world-building of the game has gone to shit since Shadowlands, where the questing experience is just unified because everyone is now part of Azeroth: The Avengers.

I would love if the Alliance and Horde had different entry points to Quel'Thalas like they did for Northrend or Pandaria, but I also know that there is a 99% chance that the Unifaction plot will continue, and Azeroth: The Avengers will have the same questing experience in Quel'Thalas.

I wonder how they'll handle Northrend in TLT, since the Alliance and Horde DO have different entry points there. Will they finally go back to making different questlines for the two factions, as opposed to a single questline for The Avengers Unifaction?

tbf blizzard has been lazy even with the content they make. it's clear (they even said it) that they're trying to release more expansions more frequently to make more money. quality has gone down by a lot

From WC3 and every expansion after it? Faction pride=/=faction war.

what's the purpose of factions and faction pride if there are no differences anymore between them? also, faction conflict was a thing up until shadowlands. in dragonflight horde and alliance act like best buddies

[Cheezits]

All the ones with this new model are so far allied explicitly with Xal'atath and our enemies. Considering that form is a gift given from the void soul. It's unlikely they'll join up whatsoever.

I can't believe they'd pass up on Tuskarr right now. They have a new capital. Female, male and child models. Perfect racial mounts, and are pretty unique to each faction look and feel wise. Plus, they've been one of the well received parts of dragonflight. It's right there, would be pretty well received, and they're not doing it.

As has been said, they probably got delayed to TLT to sell them as a Northrend related race/develop their animations more. They may even do this for the Nerubians as well as they have a presence in Nothrend.

They will want to sell races and not just add them to expansions people paid for already.

[Lady Atia]

As has been said, they probably got delayed to TLT to sell them as a Northrend related race/develop their animations more. They may even do this for the Nerubians as well as they have a presence in Nothrend.

They will want to sell races and not just add them to expansions people paid for already.

Well, one to the main features of allied races was that they could do more than one-two per expansion - so it's kinda weird that we only seem to get the dwarfes as allied race for TWW.

[Viridiel]

As has been said, they probably got delayed to TLT to sell them as a Northrend related race/develop their animations more. They may even do this for the Nerubians as well as they have a presence in Nothrend.

They will want to sell races and not just add them to expansions people paid for already.

That's not a bad idea. A group of nerubians returning to Northrend to retake Azjol-Nerub and subsequently joining the Alliance and/or the Horde is a great concept. I would worry that it could feel too outdated for us to get the evolved nerubians from the War Within in the Last Titan though, so maybe they undergo another change after they're freed of the Old Gods again or we end up with good old fashioned insects with more than two legs.

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Unrelated, I just remembered that there were wall-climbing mounts planned for the Azjol-Nerub zone in WotLK. Not really sure I see the use case for it in modern WoW, but that's definitely an appropriate concept for a dynamic ground mount. We might see one in TWW.

[Varodoc]

tbf blizzard has been lazy even with the content they make. it's clear (they even said it) that they're trying to release more expansions more frequently to make more money. quality has gone down by a lot



what's the purpose of factions and faction pride if there are no differences anymore between them? also, faction conflict was a thing up until shadowlands. in dragonflight horde and alliance act like best buddies

It will be interesting to see how they will write themselves out of their laziness in TLT.

Because the Alliance and Horde do have different hubs in Northrend.

Will they finally go back to making separate questlines and hubs for the two factions (which is what made WoW early world-building successful), or will they continue with their Avengers dilution and just allow Alliance players to interact with the Forsaken apothecaries spreading the blight in Howling Fjord?

[Cheezits]

Well, one to the main features of allied races was that they could do more than one-two per expansion - so it's kinda weird that we only seem to get the dwarfes as allied race for TWW.

Nerubians are gated behind their liberation questline, which seemingly is not finished by the end of the raid, and there aren't any other races besides Arathi Humans (who have been hidden so far besides placeholders and could fit the bill for another AR). Or there's something in Undermine/Uldaz?

ARs, like BFA, they can hide behind patches. We will see if the New Nerubians are released as ARs or are kicked back to be released as a real race.

[Woggmer]

Sorry, but these people can suck it, to say id friendly. The factions were one of, if not the worst thing ever added to WoW. Playerbases should never, ever be divided in such a way. Faction balance was an issues since classic, and until recently, it extremely hurt the game with forcing people to go to the side the most player are instead of playing races they would enjoy more. Without that stupid outdated and unnecessary system the game would have been for the better.

I didn't mention gameplay, as I said earlier, I have no issue if it was a gameplay feature and it doesn't effect the story. If it did and suddenly the Alliance and Horde are friends and diminished 40 years worth of hate, war, death, pain, suffering, and bigotry.. that's going to feel like a giant insult, not just for WoW players but for people who've been following Warcraft since the beginning. (It especially upsets me because BFA and SL ended on such a bad and confusing note that makes no sense in the context of DF unless you're playing a Drac'thyr and have no idea about the events prior to DF.)

As for it making the game better, that's up for debate on a different thread, but I'll just say this.. It won't make the community less toxic, even without faction pride the community will still be toxic to each other as they're more focused on your individual skill, gear, the class you play, and what addons you're using. That's still going to this day with Faction Pride practically non-existent.

[doledippers]

hero talents in like 3-4 hours pog

[Makorus]

People coping so hard with Nerubian Allied Races.

Allied Races are Races you have to unlock i.e. you have to ally with them first, simple as that. Just because we only get one doesn't mean there will be more.

[Murlocos]

My whole issue with dissolving the factions is that the argument for it is that they could tell more interesting stories by freeing up the various races to have more individual and unique storylines that aren't bound to follow the greater faction's movements in lockstep.

That's absolutely true! They could do that, but they aren't. Instead, we're seeing the races increasingly sanded down into the same homogenized template wherein the mere idea of conflict or strife is a nonstarter. The stories being told and the characters in them are becoming less interesting because they're all becoming about "working together" from start to middle to end, and the easiest way for everyone to work together is for everyone to have no differences.

This is my case for BfA being more damaging to the writing overall than SL was, because BfA made the core of Warcraft so toxic that their solution is to only tell SL-esque stories from here on out. It's hacking apart the pillars of your IP and replacing them with nothing.

Gameplay-wise? Yes, bring on all the cross-faction stuff. It doesn't take a lot of effort for my brain to accept that my cross-faction group killing a dungeon boss for the 40th time probably isn't canonical.

[Enrif]

If you google the crystal and zoom in, then they become super apparent. They look a bit like a naaru.

I think your hypothesis is fine as well. But I just can't seem to forget this passage from Chronicle:

"The cataclysmic birth of the cosmos also flung shards of Light throughout reality. These shards suffused the matter of myriad worlds with the spark of life, giving rise to creatures of wondrous and terrible diversity."

Huh, so like the old gods, but the light version instead. Could be interesting to see what is inside that crystal, perhaps a prime naaru like X'era, or even something more primal, a proto-naaru perhaps.

[milkmustache]

My whole issue with dissolving the factions is that the argument for it is that they could tell more interesting stories by freeing up the various races to have more individual and unique storylines that aren't bound to follow the greater faction's movements in lockstep.

That's absolutely true! They could do that, but they aren't. Instead, we're seeing the races increasingly sanded down into the same homogenized template wherein the mere idea of conflict or strife is a nonstarter. The stories being told and the characters in them are becoming less interesting because they're all becoming about "working together" from start to middle to end, and the easiest way for everyone to work together is for everyone to have no differences.

This is my case for BfA being more damaging to the writing overall than SL was, because BfA made the core of Warcraft so toxic that their solution is to only tell SL-esque stories from here on out. It's hacking apart the pillars of your IP and replacing them with nothing.

Gameplay-wise? Yes, bring on all the cross-faction stuff. It doesn't take a lot of effort for my brain to accept that my cross-faction group killing a dungeon boss for the 40th time probably isn't canonical.

I don't even mind cooperation being canonical, but we can't be lead to believe that 100% of both factions are bought into this new friendship. Subfactions should still be skirmishing, faction leaders should be struggling to maintain their troops from old hatreds.

My big fear is that the "unification of the elven tribes" in Midnight is literal and we see a "we are one elf society" storyline that homogenizes all of the elves.

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If you google the crystal and zoom in, then they become super apparent. They look a bit like a naaru.

I think your hypothesis is fine as well. But I just can't seem to forget this passage from Chronicle:

"The cataclysmic birth of the cosmos also flung shards of Light throughout reality. These shards suffused the matter of myriad worlds with the spark of life, giving rise to creatures of wondrous and terrible diversity."

Just to give some support on this one, here is the image you're speaking about, zoomed in on the crystal. Pretty clear Naaru runes.