Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[3DTyrant]

My question is how long before old gods/void lords inevitably show up. We already saw a few twilight cultists mucking about in the Waking Shores and it feels like Old gods are the last pieces of the triangle alongside Titans and dragons.


My only hope is that we don't get another "the bad guy was actually the good guy all along" plot twist where it turns out the reason Deathwing put all the Dracthyr away was because he felt himself slipping and was actually "saving" them from the old god influence so they could help fight them off.

Also don't forget the wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff that sends us back to the time of the Black Empire towards the end of Thaldraszus. Depending on if/how Old God/Void Lord stuff is implemented into the game this time round, I wouldn't be mad. Providing they don't pull a N'Zoth death again.

[Foolicious]

OK, now I'm really interested in him meeting a certain blazing beard we know... and hopefully kick his ass.

So i haven't keeping up with the timeline here. Tyr is basically pro dragon and odin is anti dragon. But was Tyr still alive when odyn started the propaganda machine that painted the titans as the ultimate good guys? Or will he offer maybe some interesting perspectives if he comes back?

[Sondrelk]

So i haven't keeping up with the timeline here. Tyr is basically pro dragon and odin is anti dragon. But was Tyr still alive when odyn started the propaganda machine that painted the titans as the ultimate good guys? Or will he offer maybe some interesting perspectives if he comes back?

How I read it is that Odyn isnt so much anti-dragon, as he is against letting dragons have free reign. They do however both seem to agree on ensuring the Dragons are aligned with the Titans.

[Fahrad Wagner]

So i haven't keeping up with the timeline here. Tyr is basically pro dragon and odin is anti dragon. But was Tyr still alive when odyn started the propaganda machine that painted the titans as the ultimate good guys? Or will he offer maybe some interesting perspectives if he comes back?

I believe Tyr was already missing, but I am confused at the timeline too. Could someone please clarify?

[Lady Atia]

Return of the outer big evil elemental dragons?
"New Cataclysm"
Return of tyr?
"Order restored"
Old gods say Hi!
Jailor comes back going i told you so.

Oh wait that is too many patches.

Tyr already returns in 10.0.^^

[Alanar]

OK, now I'm really interested in him meeting a certain blazing beard we know... and hopefully kick his ass.

Thats what I though!

[Revamp Man]

10.0.5 is coming

I'm expecting the primalist storms with the catch up gear
The incarnates broke out
Sabellian makes his move for the throne

[Nyel]

Forbidden reaches can be selected in the wow companion app alongside waking shores, on'ahra, azure span and thaldraszus, so it's defo going to become the new endgame open world zone. I'd bet on 10.1 for that as well

I hope it's more 10.0.5 than 10.1. Let 10.1 be something completely new.

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I can geek out like all of you and post a long one; however, the main thing I want to see for Dragonflight is the introduction of Murozond as a character in our timeline. Preferably, I would like for him to span several expansions. I'll be very disappointed if he enters in Dragonflight and dies (leaves) in Dragonflight. Set him up in Dragonflight as an antagonist throughout many patches/expansions. I am so over the "one and done" villains that either die in a single patch or single expansion.

Plot twist: Murozond won't be an enemy, he'll be the next logical step for Nozdormu and therefore replace him as an aspect.

[Nymrohd]

So just finished the Silver Purpose
We are getting Tyr back. What we were trying to save in Uldaman was pretty much his back up and we forge a new body in the quest. He looks cool as hell and as a human paladin, I hope beyond the aspect lore we get some further interaction with him, especially if we have his hand around . . .
@Aucald, I should keep this in spoiler right?

[Nyel]

The way i see it there are three main storylines that can be used for future patches. We have the Decay stuff with Decatriarch Wratheye still being around. Underground stuff, likely linking to Wrathion and Sabellian, with Djaradin as main enemies. And Titan/Dragon stuff, with the conflict between Primalists and Dragons being the current focus, but also having Murozond as a future hook.

I think Decatriarch and "underground stuff" can pretty much be the same thing, rooting underneath Azeroth.

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Also don't forget the wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff that sends us back to the time of the Black Empire towards the end of Thaldraszus. Depending on if/how Old God/Void Lord stuff is implemented into the game this time round, I wouldn't be mad. Providing they don't pull a N'Zoth death again.

Maybe we bring N'zoth back from another timeline and this time he's the REAL thing.

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By the way, can someone please tell me what's the requirement to unlock 2/9 at level 70? It tells me I need to level up my renown, but I can't find any information which renown levels are exactly required to unlock it.

[Ersula]

So just finished the Silver Purpose
We are getting Tyr back. What we were trying to save in Uldaman was pretty much his back up and we forge a new body in the quest. He looks cool as hell and as a human paladin, I hope beyond the aspect lore we get some further interaction with him, especially if we have his hand around . . .

I would honestly prefer Tyr as the villain to just the rest of the Primal Incarnates in succession.

Though it seems some of you aren't understanding why Tyr would be the villain in this situation: Tyr was loyal to Odyn. Odyn expressed desire to exterminate the mortal races at some point (his change of heart not happening until after Tyr died.) Loken on the other hand, liked the mortal races & encouraged their development: The Prime Designate records suggest the conflict between Loken & Tyr (the one that led to Tyr's death) was to stop Tyr from carrying out this order from Odyn.

So who wants to bet Tyr, upon resurrection, would carry out his last mission before he died: The extinction of the Mortal Races.

[BaumanKing]

Bring back netherwing dragonflight, please.

[Cheezits]

I would honestly prefer Tyr as the villain to just the rest of the Primal Incarnates in succession.

Though it seems some of you aren't understanding why Tyr would be the villain in this situation: Tyr was loyal to Odyn. Odyn expressed desire to exterminate the mortal races at some point (his change of heart not happening until after Tyr died.) Loken on the other hand, liked the mortal races & encouraged their development: The Prime Designate records suggest the conflict between Loken & Tyr (the one that led to Tyr's death) was to stop Tyr from carrying out this order from Odyn.

So who wants to bet Tyr, upon resurrection, would carry out his last mission before he died: The extinction of the Mortal Races.

Perhaps, but I don't think this means much when the Uldaman books suggest that he disagreed with how Odyn thought of the Dragons.

Considering Odyn is already canonically presented as an asshole, and that he was manipulative/didn't like Dragons, I can see us getting an Odyn vs Tyr fight over control/independence of the Dragon Isles.

[Sondrelk]

So just finished the Silver Purpose
We are getting Tyr back. What we were trying to save in Uldaman was pretty much his back up and we forge a new body in the quest. He looks cool as hell and as a human paladin, I hope beyond the aspect lore we get some further interaction with him, especially if we have his hand around . . .

So did you do any extra rep gain shenanigans to get there? My guess would be the human racial which I sadly not longer have.
Guess it should be easily possible if you get one alt to Renown 10, and then level another character from fresh with the bonus, and do all the quests once again.

[Nymrohd]

So did you do any extra rep gain shenanigans to get there? My guess would be the human racial which I sadly not longer have.
Guess it should be easily possible if you get one alt to Renown 10, and then level another character from fresh with the bonus, and do all the quests once again.

Human bonus only and Loremaster of the Dragon Isles. No exploits or anything that I know off, heck I should have held off some quests for Sunday to use the Darkmoon Buff (I am saving the reward from the quest, it's 2500 rep with Valdrakken)

I really expect Odyn to end up one of the villains of the expansion which is fine by me beyond the fact that we've already fought him so many times (unless we get an Ulduar patch and the keepers fully or mostly side with Odyn; an Odyn/Thorim/Hodir fight would work and heck I would not mind such a council fight for raid endboss.)

[Sondrelk]

Human bonus only and Loremaster of the Dragon Isles. No exploits or anything that I know off, heck I should have held off some quests for Sunday to use the Darkmoon Buff (I am saving the reward from the quest, it's 2500 rep with Valdrakken)

Well that certainly would have been a great idea... I only have a couple straggler questlines left for Loremaster. I was absolutely desperate for more Dragonriding customizations, which means my impatience has bitten my in the ass once more.

Suppose I should accept it is a flaw of me changing mains to a non-human and losing the rep buff.

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Suppose losing out on the extra rep is a bit of a bummer. Though I am more annoyed at Alchemy research being disabled. Makes me wonder what the devs will do to fix it. Simply removing it doesnt seem like a good option given how much the profession revolves around researching.

[Aucald]

Aucald, I should keep this in spoiler right?

Since the thread isn't tagged, I'd say try to keep overt spoilers behind tags, yes.

[Revamp Man]

I hope it's more 10.0.5 than 10.1. Let 10.1 be something completely new.

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Plot twist: Murozond won't be an enemy, he'll be the next logical step for Nozdormu and therefore replace him as an aspect.

Well we do know that moruzond is inevitable
One could argue instead of old god insane moruzond we get chaotic good moruzond

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Plot twist: Murozond won't be an enemy, he'll be the next logical step for Nozdormu and therefore replace him as an aspect.

That's actually a very fascinating idea. Although it does contradict the Infinites' portrayal thus far as naive extremists who don't realize that fucking with time in pursuit of short-term good will lead to long-term evil, I do think it would be consistent with the current game's circlejerk about "muh free will tho", and it would make for a very strong representation of the triumph of free will over destiny. It could be very interesting to have Nozdormu become Murozond as a representation of the rising power of individuality and free will, opening things up beyond the narrow worldview of days past. It's one of the few points where the individualism wank that plagued Shadowlands wouldn't annoy me that much.

However, it would still constitute a pretty unfortunate change because the Infinites are some of the few villains we have left with sympathetic motives and objectives yet whose success would cause terrible damage. I always found them interesting for that reason, so either making it so that their ends wouldn't have terrible and destructive unintended side effects kind of ruins the profundity of learning to understand your place in time and the universe and makes it so that the timeways become just another thing that the almighty power of individuality has conquered.

[Ersula]

Perhaps, but I don't think this means much when the Uldaman books suggest that he disagreed with how Odyn thought of the Dragons.

Considering Odyn is already canonically presented as an asshole, and that he was manipulative/didn't like Dragons, I can see us getting an Odyn vs Tyr fight over control/independence of the Dragon Isles.

Yes, he disagreed about the Dragons, not purging those with the Curse of Flesh. Two very different issues... We know Loken killed Tyr & as of right now, their only point of contention was that Loken liked the "mortal races" and was an outlier among the Watchers for it.

I believe Tyr was already missing, but I am confused at the timeline too. Could someone please clarify?

• Before the Titans left they told the Watchers & Keepers (Watchers, Keepers & their minions collectively called "Titan-forged") to create Dragon Aspects to protect the planet against potential extraplanar corruption like the Old Gods; basicially to ward against anything the Titan's constructs haven't already prepared for.
• Odyn is made Prime Designate by the Titans; basically he's in charge of all the Titan-forged.
• The Watchers observe the rise of the first "mortal" races; Constructs & Elementals* who are affected by the Curse of Flesh. (*Art book shows Djaradin with troll cultural aesthetics; suggesting Djaradin are the predecessors to Trolls.) Loken also observes introduction of mortal races with same characteristics in unrelated locations: Apparently a stop-gap to explain any "new" racial offshoots discovered in the future & suggest Djaradin-like troll predecessors across the entire planet.
• The development of Dragons took thousands of years, with the Incarnates being the first drafts. Soon after, Galakrond was corrupted by Yogg Saron, allowing him to organize dragons, including the Incarnates, against the Titan-forged.
• After the problems with Galakrond, Odyn expresses the desire to stop the Dragon Aspect project, and even expresses desire to scour the planet of the "mortal" races. He is apparently out-voted, as the Aspects were an expressed wish of the Titans themselves, but the exact reasons that didn't happen are unknown

Also we have no idea when a sort of revolution against the Titan-forged, centered at Avaloren, happened in this timeline, as Odyn rewrote history to keep secret anything that might cause dissent.

Current prediction: The final villain of Dragonflight will be Tyr, trying to eliminate the mortal races so that only Dragons will live on Azeroth. Or if Tyr is reasonable to the events of the last millennium, the climax and final raid will be Nozdormu taking the players back in time to Avaloren to fight alongside the so called "Heretics" to stop Murazond & Odyn from killing all the mortal races.