Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Ersula]

No, it's pretty obvious why a race of zombies, serving as the analogue of the WC3 undead, being added to the orcs is different from the titular Humans of a franchise that began with a game literally called "Orcs and Humans" being added to the same. In so far as the worgen, e.g. a werewolf analogue were possible to add to the Horde, it's a pointless hypothetical. The entire worgen lore as presented exists in order to lead into their conflict with the Forsaken and make them distinct from reggo humans. Their entire lore prior puts Gilneas as among the kingdoms least likely to join the Horde given that Genn was vouching to have every orc killed and quit the Alliance over this not happening and the worgen as a side-race that are 100% hostile to the only playable race nearby in the Forsaken. In so far as any gyrations were possible to put them Horde-side, they didn't happen and have zero info in the text and thus don't have anything to discuss.

If the forsaken had been nice to them instead of aggressive it would have made sense. Why is that so hard to imagine? As for Forsaken, all you're saying is Orcs could join the Alliance, just as long as they are so mutated enough that they do not resemble orcs. For example, a race of half-draenei or lightbound orcs.

[Makabreska]

That is why we might get a separate WoW Retail version for both PC and console. It might be a version without addons and with an slightly different interface, and maybe with some changes in combat, although I do not know how much work that will entail.

I also think that some of you do not realise how good playing in a controller feels and how easily many players do high content with a controller.

WoW will most certainly come to Xbox first, and probably PS5 at some point. I think that TWW is definitively the right moment to do so and I honestly wiill be surprised if we do not see more information about this topic during 2024.

1. So like, we will have two separate WoW player-bases? Because there is now way a no-addon players would be on par with PC players. You really think that this niche, console pool will be able to support itself when it comes to group content? And yes, the group content would have to be dumbed down, because:

2. Do you guys even stepped into 10+ Mythic dungeon or Mythic raiding? Can you honestly say that a gamepad player can reliably and quickly do complex mechanics while executing a proper rotation (with crapton of extra utility, but still important, abilities)? How would these players do for example Echo of Neltharion? Or Fyrakk? I am genuinely baffled listening to claims that this could work.

[Super Dickmann]

If the forsaken had been nice to them instead of aggressive it would have made sense. Why is that so hard to imagine? As for Forsaken, all you're saying is Orcs could join the Alliance, just as long as they are so mutated enough that they do not resemble orcs. For example, a race of half-draenei or lightbound orcs.

If orcs cease to be orcs in any model or aesthetic sense and don't meet the orc fantasy, sure. Ditto how when you play worgen, you do so to play a werewolf, not to play a dapper brit who never does anything, even if the latter has escaped Blizz for about ten years by this point. As far as the Forsaken being friends with Gilneas is concerned, sure, you could have written the story in that vein, but you'd have more hoops to jump through to get there, from Gilneas being opposed to the orcs being basically the sum of their prior characterization, to Gilneas having a crash with Lordaeron in particular and not doing anything during the Scourge invasion, to more mundane problems like the points mentioned in the quoted post and how making them friends means that entire area of the world has too many friendlies and thus no conflict.

[Darkarath]

there are already too many versions of wow lol. the game doesn't have 12m subs anymore

Are you aware of what has been going on with WoW in the past two years? We have more versions than ever and they keep making more. This is starting to look like Skyrim. They just cannot stop.

1. So like, we will have two separate WoW player-bases? Because there is now way a no-addon players would be on par with PC players. You really think that this niche, console pool will be able to support itself when it comes to group content? And yes, the group content would have to be dumbed down, because:

2. Do you guys even stepped into 10+ Mythic dungeon or Mythic raiding? Can you honestly say that a gamepad player can reliably and quickly do complex mechanics while executing a proper rotation (with crapton of extra utility, but still important, abilities)? How would these players do for example Echo of Neltharion? Or Fyrakk? I am genuinely baffled listening to claims that this could work.

1- We already have several WoW playerbases, yet all under one subscription. The weird thing is that WoW Retail has stayed with just one version for 20 years, but that is going to change soon.

I do not think that WoW for consoles will share current PC servers. Instead take the chance to make something new with the necessary changes. We could discuss these changes forever, as they can go big with them or just make the bare minimum.

Another possibility is a solo / offline version.

2- I am confident that any player can make most WoW encounters with a controller (with practise, of course), although I agree that some encounters would be too much and they might need to be changed / adapted. But again that would fully depend on what path they want to take with the release of the game in consoles.

Honestly, a more simpler WoW Retail version with an important reduction of skills and an "easier" combat, more focused on movement than in skills, would be awesome.

[Makabreska]

Another possibility is a solo / offline version.

You lost me there.

[Woggmer]

? We've seen him do exactly the opposite of what you suggest here.

Look back at the cutscene where Illidan destroyed Xera with his eyebeams.. Turalyon was literally going to attack Illidan, and Illidan stopped him only to show that Turalyon was blinded by the Light itself and can see the Light fade from his eyes after that.

If that happened once, it can happen again. I see him as a potential villain where he works along side Yrel and the other forces of the Lightbound.

[Darkarath]

You lost me there.

I think that a solo / offline version is just a matter of time. It will probably be many years away still. But if Dragon Quest X is doing it, I do not see Microsoft passing on an extremely easy opoortunity to grab money in the future.

Honestly they can even do it relatively soon. It would be just another game as a service. Drop the subscription and just pay for the expansions. Keep the PvP multiplayer and the rest solo with the appropriate changes.

[Pheraz]

I think that a solo / offline version is just a matter of time. It will probably be many years away still. But if Dragon Quest X is doing it, I do not see Microsoft passing on an extremely easy opoortunity to grab money in the future.

Honestly they can even do it relatively soon. It would be just another game as a service. Drop the subscription and just pay for the expansions. Keep the PvP multiplayer and the rest solo with the appropriate changes.

Offline means less triggers to buy stuff. So that's probably not happening. They need ways to constantly buy extra stuff amongst the sub

[Darkarath]

Offline means less triggers to buy stuff. So that's probably not happening. They need ways to constantly buy extra stuff amongst the sub

Well you will have the PvP multiplayer component. And let us remember that a solo version of the game will have a shared world, like Diablo 4, for example. An offline version would be different but people will buy anything. Just look at Genshin Impact, Assassins Creed, Diablo 4 (mostly solo games), and basically any game these days has some kind of monetization, it does not matter if it is a solo or multiplayer game.

Besides, WoW's store is already there, is not like they have to do something specific for a solo / offline version. And sadly, is getting closer and closer to the shitshow that D4 has become. It pains me to see my favourite game prostituted in such a way, but under Microsoft rule WoW will probably be monetized to the extreme.

[Nymrohd]

Look back at the cutscene where Illidan destroyed Xera with his eyebeams.. Turalyon was literally going to attack Illidan, and Illidan stopped him only to show that Turalyon was blinded by the Light itself and can see the Light fade from his eyes after that.

If that happened once, it can happen again. I see him as a potential villain where he works along side Yrel and the other forces of the Lightbound.

Turalyon fought a thousand year war with X'era who likely saved him many, many times and Illidan showed up and killed her after she risked everything to get him there.
He is also the person who then realized there is still a war to fight and continued on fighting alongside Illidan for the rest of the Argus campaign. The one who cared more for his wife who had disappeared for a very long time only to come back attuned to the void then what the Light compels and argued with X'era for her. Turalyon WOULD go potential villain; he'd do it for his wife and son. Not for the Light.

[Makabreska]

Turalyon fought a thousand year war with X'era who likely saved him many, many times and Illidan showed up and killed her after she risked everything to get him there.
He is also the person who then realized there is still a war to fight and continued on fighting alongside Illidan for the rest of the Argus campaign. The one who cared more for his wife who had disappeared for a very long time only to come back attuned to the void then what the Light compels and argued with X'era for her. Turalyon WOULD go potential villain; he'd do it for his wife and son. Not for the Light.

It is highly possible that Naaru can exert certain mind control over others via Light infusion, so it's a more probable avenue of villainy than willingly fucking over Alliance he finally rejoined. He is after all it's absolute hero.

[Nymrohd]

It was highly speculated that Naaru can exert certain mind control over others, so it's a more probable avenue of villainy than willingly fucking over Alliance he finally rejoined.

If Alleria does something that turns the world against her (and that may well happen in TWW or Midnight), Turalyon will stand next to her. Even if he knows she is wrong. That's the way I see it.

[Makabreska]

If Alleria does something that turns the world against her (and that may well happen in TWW or Midnight), Turalyon will stand next to her. Even if he knows she is wrong. That's the way I see it.

Don't buy it. He would rather try to mediate more than jumping blindly after her.

[Jastall]

I think that a solo / offline version is just a matter of time. It will probably be many years away still. But if Dragon Quest X is doing it, I do not see Microsoft passing on an extremely easy opoortunity to grab money in the future.

Honestly they can even do it relatively soon. It would be just another game as a service. Drop the subscription and just pay for the expansions. Keep the PvP multiplayer and the rest solo with the appropriate changes.

Blizzard doesn't really do solo. The last time they released content intended for solo play was Starcraft II's campaigns a decade ago now. They're all in on multiplayer.

And, IF they were going to make solo content, I'd much rather they build an actual game intended for that purpose. Rather than take a hacksaw to WoW to try and turn it into the sort of single-player RPG that it's, IMO, always been rather terrible as.

I'd personally love them to make a game like that, by the way. Imagine a turn-based RPG in the Warcraft world. A shooter or a tactical, XCOM-eque game set in Starcraft. A horror game set in Diablo. Or hell just try their hand at an RTS with a great campaign again like in ye olden days. They have such strong IPs that the possibilities are endless. But I strongly doubt any of those will ever come to pass, sadly.

[Varodoc]

You do realize Warcraft is more than just Alliance and Horde yeah?

Do you have a point?

[Darkarath]

Blizzard doesn't really do solo. The last time they released content intended for solo play was Starcraft II's campaigns a decade ago now. They're all in on multiplayer.

And, IF they were going to make solo content, I'd much rather they build an actual game intended for that purpose. Rather than take a hacksaw to WoW to try and turn it into the sort of single-player RPG that it's, IMO, always been rather terrible as.

I'd personally love them to make a game like that, by the way. Imagine a turn-based RPG in the Warcraft world. A shooter or a tactical, XCOM-eque game set in Starcraft. A horror game set in Diablo. Or hell just try their hand at an RTS with a great campaign again like in ye olden days. They have such strong IPs that the possibilities are endless. But I strongly doubt any of those will ever come to pass, sadly.

But Blizzard does solo as a service with multiplayer elements. Of course, I would also prefer a proper solo game in the Warcraft universe, but that is not happening.

Nevertheless, I am pretty sure that Microsoft will make them exploit the franchise with new games. It is insane that Blizzard has not expanded the Warcraft universe with more games besides HS and Warcraft Rumble. My bet is that by the time that the Worldsoul Saga is done a new Warcraft game will be almost ready for launch.

A Warcraft Genshin Impact will be an instant mega success. I think that Blizzard never really considered it an option because Genshin content updates will make them look like fools. They have no chance of following that cadence.

[Woggmer]

Blizzard doesn't really do solo. The last time they released content intended for solo play was Starcraft II's campaigns a decade ago now. They're all in on multiplayer.

And, IF they were going to make solo content, I'd much rather they build an actual game intended for that purpose. Rather than take a hacksaw to WoW to try and turn it into the sort of single-player RPG that it's, IMO, always been rather terrible as.

I'd personally love them to make a game like that, by the way. Imagine a turn-based RPG in the Warcraft world. A shooter or a tactical, XCOM-eque game set in Starcraft. A horror game set in Diablo. Or hell just try their hand at an RTS with a great campaign again like in ye olden days. They have such strong IPs that the possibilities are endless. But I strongly doubt any of those will ever come to pass, sadly.

They've done solo content in WoW before, especially now with AI followers, Torghast (despite its purpose being to get material for legendaries instead of gear), and now with Delves coming in.

You're also giving Blizzard too much credit to what they can do with those IPs, it'd be better to just have other developer studios take those IPs and make something new and fresh with them while still keeping it to the original source material, aka like what they do with Final Fantasy off-shoot games or Warhammer games (some successful and some less than successful.) They can't even go back to their RTS roots because they got rid of their RTS team after what happened to Warcraft 3 Reforged... and without Activision's grip that made many of the old team that left probably all moved on to their own projects or just retired.

Since Warcraft (the franchise/IP) is owned by Microsoft now, they can assign other dev teams to do something with it. Just like how they got different teams to work on a new Battletoads game or a new Killer Instinct if Rareware wasn't going to budge.

[Scyth]

Turalyon fought a thousand year war with X'era who likely saved him many, many times and Illidan showed up and killed her after she risked everything to get him there.
He is also the person who then realized there is still a war to fight and continued on fighting alongside Illidan for the rest of the Argus campaign. The one who cared more for his wife who had disappeared for a very long time only to come back attuned to the void then what the Light compels and argued with X'era for her. Turalyon WOULD go potential villain; he'd do it for his wife and son. Not for the Light.

He also stood and did nothing whilst X'era was forcefully about to change someone. Imo they did very well in that scene in showing how blinded he is by the Light.
Don't know whether that means he can be a villain though. Alleria has a bigger chance of becoming that lol

[Jastall]

They've done solo content in WoW before, especially now with AI followers, Torghast (despite its purpose being to get material for legendaries instead of gear), and now with Delves coming in.

You're also giving Blizzard too much credit to what they can do with those IPs, it'd be better to just have other developer studios take those IPs and make something new and fresh with them while still keeping it to the original source material, aka like what they do with Final Fantasy off-shoot games or Warhammer games (some successful and some less than successful.) They can't even go back to their RTS roots because they got rid of their RTS team after what happened to Warcraft 3 Reforged... and without Activision's grip that made many of the old team that left probably all moved on to their own projects or just retired.

Since Warcraft (the franchise/IP) is owned by Microsoft now, they can assign other dev teams to do something with it. Just like how they got different teams to work on a new Battletoads game or a new Killer Instinct if Rareware wasn't going to budge.

Solo content, to me, isn't the same thing an any actual solo mode. The game's had solo content since its inception, hell that was a major advantage WoW had over MMOs like Everquest. A solo mode would need a whole bunch of adjustments to not just be a really bad RPG.

But yes, you're probably right that other studios would have to leverage those IPs. Will it happen? Who knows, Blizzard might be protective internally and successfully argue that to be unnecessary. Microsoft might not see the potential we see. But if single-player games using Blizzard IPs happen they would probably be made by other studios indeed. And then they stop being truly Blizzard IPs, which would mark the end of an era for sure. But if it means good games set in the Warcraft or Starcraft universes, I'd be glad for the sacrifice to be made.

[Woggmer]

He also stood and did nothing whilst X'era was forcefully about to change someone. Imo they did very well in that scene in showing how blinded he is by the Light.
Don't know whether that means he can be a villain though. Alleria has a bigger chance of becoming that lol

Exactly, but the only reason why I don't think Alleria will turn evil is because of the horrific visions scenario, where Turalyon died to Alleria at the steps of the Cathedral and she became the "final boss" of that scenario.
Horrific visions aren't meant to be a prophecy of whats to come, but rather a possibility of what could happen if N'zoth succeeded. With Xal'atath on board now, she'll act as Alleria's opposite to gain more power and do where N'zoth failed. If Midnight is where we will deal with the Void "for good" then Turalyon and the forces of the Light will not have anything to hold back.