Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Varodoc]

...Who is that?

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That's a vocal minority.

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And even then, the Forsaken aren't the entire Horde.

It makes more sense and is more logical for the Horde to be the Villains, rather than the Alliance.

Just look at them...

[Scyth]

Mecha gnomes look pretty evil to me tbh, can’t trust those.

Anyway, this is very off-topic. Create a separate thread and talk about the factions there please.

[Gurahk]

Not sure if srs dude who keeps making "poor, wronged Horde" posts. You had to see his lore threads on the front page, he literally spams them each time he comes back from the ban.

Pretty sure it's Varodoc's alt by now, the posting quality is similar.

[Cherry123]

It's still weak. Anduin just got out of a very traumatising mind control in SL and is now coping with PTSD. Him getting under another influence would cheapen all of it and made him look pretty laughable, as being a constant puppet of the enemy.

looking laughable is Anduin thing. Crying at the second intro cinematic is too much, He will never become cool and interesting, I hope he finds a girl in TWW so that he doesn’t seem like a 30 year old virgin.

I always wondered why he acted differently from other teenagers. Always sad and depressed, only those with small carrots behave this way.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

Sometimes i feel some people take this horde and alliance stuff too seriously, taking stuff very personally like they're a part of these fictional factions IRL and spilled blood for them. ^^

Kinda weird, don't be too far gone into this fictional stuff, it's not real world in the end.

[Ersula]

Forsaken fans want to be Scourge 2.0.

Forsaken fans hate Calia Menethil because she's not an evil genocidal psycho like Sylvanas.

A large majority of Forsaken fans definitely want to play the Villain.

You're moving the goalposts by kilometers at this point. How people RP has nothing to do with whether or not the devs could or should give an individual Alliance leader a villain arc like they did for Garrosh, which is the topic. Although you took us here, when we were initially talking about human subraces in the horde and whether or not it was realistic to portray a giant nato-like military complex as occasionally grey morally speaking.

Specifically people hate Calia because she doesn't have the substantive backstory other faction leaders have, nor does she actually advocate for the race she portents to represent. She's like Jaina if you cloned her & the clone was constantly apologizing for being human.

[Valysar]

They will announce 10.2.6 this week, I guess

[Reive]

They will announce 10.2.6 this week, I guess

they should

[Woggmer]

I really don't care if the Alliance does or doesn't get villain batted, so long as they can stop being Yes-Men for Anduin every time he preaches about peace. Very few people agreed to that sentiment, and more people just see Anduin as a cringe Gary Sue who is never wrong.

[Makorus]

I really don't care if the Alliance does or doesn't get villain batted, so long as they can stop being Yes-Men for Anduin every time he preaches about peace. Very few people agreed to that sentiment, and more people just see Anduin as a cringe Gary Sue who is never wrong.

idk how people can say that when Anduin has been wrong time and time again?

It's very rare that Anduin is actually right, he sticks by his ideals and constantly gets fucked over.

[Fahrad Wagner]

They will announce 10.2.6 this week, I guess

iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii excited!

[Woggmer]

idk how people can say that when Anduin has been wrong time and time again?

It's very rare that Anduin is actually right, he sticks by his ideals and constantly gets fucked over.

Yeah, that's the point, the player base disagrees with his ideals, it's just that every other character on the Alliance always agrees with him. The only exception being Tyrande who actually wanted to hunt down Sylvanas to get revenge and Anduin was more concerned about bridging relations with the Horde... and she called him out to be a naive child who doesn't know anything.

[Skildar]

I don't want either the alliance or horde nor a third faction to be bad. That doesn't make sense, Russia isn't bad, USA isn't bad, etc. but they sure are rules by taking advantage of their strengths and grasp over resources, importance of their workforce and world presence, cultural impacts, etc. It doesn't have to get very political in wow (clearly the writers don't want to either) but factions should act in non-benevolent ways want it suits them.

Turalyon has spent a thousand years fighting with an army. He hasn't known peace nor politics or "faction" for a lot of time. The choice to put him at the head of Alliance was a surprising one but it should have brought a bit warmongering than it did. With him at the helm, it would be expected to have a return to Cataclysm style of the Alliance, where they take the initiative in getting ahead of the potential threats. If done right, it would mean Horde loosing territory and Alliance gaining some and maybe consolidating their borders, etc. That would not make Turalyon a zealot or a crazy hot head, just a leading army man not recognizing the existence of peace as long as uncertainty and the horde is out there.

But an ever existing issue with warcraft is the absence of resource management issue... Dragons don't have to feed, Alliance doesn't have any issue accepting pandarens, darkiron dwarves and void elves even if they bring no farmable land or no land at all. We get through every world crisis and there are no shortage of soldiers to send to the front (except for the last stand in front of orgrimmar in BfA) and no issue of famine, etc. So yeah, in a world of war such as this one, it's difficult to feel the urge to spit on your enemy even if you have an overwhelming advantage and every faction becomes a blanket of feel goodery :/

[Makorus]

Yeah, that's the point, the player base disagrees with his ideals, it's just that every other character on the Alliance always agrees with him. The only exception being Tyrande who actually wanted to hunt down Sylvanas to get revenge and Anduin was more concerned about bridging relations with the Horde... and she called him out to be a naive child who doesn't know anything.

No, the game itself disagrees with him.

Every single time he stuck with his ideals he got fucked over. Jaina disagreed with him a lot, obviously Tyrande, and even Genn.

Other than that, who does he interact with from the Alliance?

[doledippers]

if / when we get the 10.2.6 announcement im guessing itll be more of a teaser than an announcement. Just enough so players would have a general idea on where to go, what to do, and what to expect when they log in. Obviously im hoping to get an announcement this week, but im expecting itll be next week and then the patch launches on the 19th.

Hearthstone anniversary event is listed as a 10.2.5 feature on the roadmap, and calendar has it running from the 11th to the 18th (monday) so imo the 19th makes perfect sense

[Murlocos]

No, the game itself disagrees with him.

Every single time he stuck with his ideals he got fucked over. Jaina disagreed with him a lot, obviously Tyrande, and even Genn.

Other than that, who does he interact with from the Alliance?

Genn's disagreement with Anduin in 8.1 got neutered, unless there's something else I'm missing. On the PTR, he said something along the lines of not listening to the orders of a boy king before leaving for Darkshore, on live he's much more mild mannered about it.

I'll throw my hat in and broaden the issue to being that Anduin is overcentralizing to the story. Tyrande does part ways with him, but that story leads to her failing to get revenge with the ultimate lesson being that she was going too far. Anduin is right.

Who actually deals with Sylvanas and coaxes her into redemption? Anduin.
Who pulls Saurfang out of his stupor and convinces him to not give up? Anduin.

I don't think the game disagrees with Anduin because it always wraps around to vindicating him. One by one, we see characters go through the same arc over and over again: Anduin is too naive for them but he refuses to budge on his ideals, they finally decide to give him a chance and it turns out he was right. Anduin being naive matters less and less when the number of characters that are changed by him and join his surrogate family grows with each expansion, and the ones that reject his ideals are villains to kill off. Before Dragonflight, it was a common joke that Baine cared more about Anduin than the Horde or his own people.

Side note: it's really funny that Stormwind's spymaster is taking orders from Gilneas's king to not report information on Stormwind's missing king to their regent (who we are reminded several times is not as popular as the perfect king Anduin). I don't think the writers would see this as treasonous because they view the cast as a group of friends and not sovereign leaders of nations with their own interests and needs.

Warcraft's never had a true main character and instead relied on a rotating ensemble cast, but Anduin is the closest we've come to them trying to make one character the center of the world, and he's used as a cudgel to defuse any and all tension within the cast. He's a foil to Warcraft, and that works when he's one of many characters in the mix, not one where half the Horde leaders will jump to defend at all costs. Nobody will disagree with each other on anything because that's not what Anduin would want. Green Jesus is looking like a false prophet in comparison to the new kid.

[allegrian]

Genn's disagreement with Anduin in 8.1 got neutered, unless there's something else I'm missing. On the PTR, he said something along the lines of not listening to the orders of a boy king before leaving for Darkshore, on live he's much more mild mannered about it.

I'll throw my hat in and broaden the issue to being that Anduin is overcentralizing to the story. Tyrande does part ways with him, but that story leads to her failing to get revenge with the ultimate lesson being that she was going too far. Anduin is right.

Who actually deals with Sylvanas and coaxes her into redemption? Anduin.
Who pulls Saurfang out of his stupor and convinces him to not give up? Anduin.

I don't think the game disagrees with Anduin because it always wraps around to vindicating him. One by one, we see characters go through the same arc over and over again: Anduin is too naive for them but he refuses to budge on his ideals, they finally decide to give him a chance and it turns out he was right. Anduin being naive matters less and less when the number of characters that are changed by him and join his surrogate family grows with each expansion, and the ones that reject his ideals are villains to kill off. Before Dragonflight, it was a common joke that Baine cared more about Anduin than the Horde or his own people.

Side note: it's really funny that Stormwind's spymaster is taking orders from Gilneas's king to not report information on Stormwind's missing king to their regent (who we are reminded several times is not as popular as the perfect king Anduin). I don't think the writers would see this as treasonous because they view the cast as a group of friends and not sovereign leaders of nations with their own interests and needs.

Warcraft's never had a true main character and instead relied on a rotating ensemble cast, but Anduin is the closest we've come to them trying to make one character the center of the world, and he's used as a cudgel to defuse any and all tension within the cast. He's a foil to Warcraft, and that works when he's one of many characters in the mix, not one where half the Horde leaders will jump to defend at all costs. Nobody will disagree with each other on anything because that's not what Anduin would want. Green Jesus is looking like a false prophet in comparison to the new kid.

It works if the new direction is horde + alliance team vs the world (which as shown in DF it clearly is).

We're not going back to faction conflict since BFA ended with the alliance/anduin making sure every horde leader is one of his buddies. Thrall didn't interact with Anduin too much but they'll be sure to fix that in TWW, and the first thing that Baine says in the horde DF intro is how much he cares about Anduin. Patch by patch, blizzard is trying to make the playerbase come together and realise that horde content is now alliance content as well, and viceversa, as we are all the same now: the heroes of the story like the avengers.

[Makorus]

Genn's disagreement with Anduin in 8.1 got neutered, unless there's something else I'm missing. On the PTR, he said something along the lines of not listening to the orders of a boy king before leaving for Darkshore, on live he's much more mild mannered about it.

I'll throw my hat in and broaden the issue to being that Anduin is overcentralizing to the story. Tyrande does part ways with him, but that story leads to her failing to get revenge with the ultimate lesson being that she was going too far. Anduin is right.

Who actually deals with Sylvanas and coaxes her into redemption? Anduin.
Who pulls Saurfang out of his stupor and convinces him to not give up? Anduin.

I don't think the game disagrees with Anduin because it always wraps around to vindicating him. One by one, we see characters go through the same arc over and over again: Anduin is too naive for them but he refuses to budge on his ideals, they finally decide to give him a chance and it turns out he was right. Anduin being naive matters less and less when the number of characters that are changed by him and join his surrogate family grows with each expansion, and the ones that reject his ideals are villains to kill off. Before Dragonflight, it was a common joke that Baine cared more about Anduin than the Horde or his own people.

Side note: it's really funny that Stormwind's spymaster is taking orders from Gilneas's king to not report information on Stormwind's missing king to their regent (who we are reminded several times is not as popular as the perfect king Anduin). I don't think the writers would see this as treasonous because they view the cast as a group of friends and not sovereign leaders of nations with their own interests and needs.

Warcraft's never had a true main character and instead relied on a rotating ensemble cast, but Anduin is the closest we've come to them trying to make one character the center of the world, and he's used as a cudgel to defuse any and all tension within the cast. He's a foil to Warcraft, and that works when he's one of many characters in the mix, not one where half the Horde leaders will jump to defend at all costs. Nobody will disagree with each other on anything because that's not what Anduin would want. Green Jesus is looking like a false prophet in comparison to the new kid.

I don't understand these posts because when does Anduin do anything? The few times he does stuff, he fucks it up.

War of Thorns? Anduin messed that up.

Lordaeron? Anduin almost got everyone killed.

Darkshore? Pissed everyone off.

Dazar'alor? Achieved the complete opposite of what he wanted to achieve.

Literally everyone bar Jaina disagreed with the peace treaty, but yeah, they had to, because he is the High King.

He wasn't even the one who redeemed Sylvanas, it was Uther.

If you want an example of Mary Sue just look at Saurfang. Gets away completely scot-free with all the shit he has caused, with no repercussions, and gets celebrated as the biggest hero ever after he dies.

[Pheraz]

You wronged your propaganda pics. And forgot your CaNnOt pOsSiBlE bE VilLiAnS starter pack.
...


See, I can do it too.
But again, that is not a thread about AvH.

You forgot the quest in bfa alliance war campaign were you kinda kill thousands of goblins With that ratrher small, overpowered dark iron elemental

[Varodoc]

You forgot the quest in bfa alliance war campaign were you kinda kill thousands of goblins With that ratrher small, overpowered dark iron elemental

A Meme quest for a Meme race. Rather irrelevant for the actual Lore.