Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[allegrian]

They have understood that no one cares about Random Aspulled Realm #22. That formula got tired in MoP.

They'll most likely spend the next 20 years revamping the Old World. A gradual process that begins in Quel'Thalas and Northrend.

That depends on the reception of Midnight and TLT, but from the hype, you can feel people much more hyped for those to than TWW. TWW was probably planned before they came up with the world soul saga trilogy and they just have rewritten it a bit to make it fit. That's why I fear we'll see mostly Danuser's wrtiting in it's release patch.

[Varodoc]

That depends on the reception of Midnight and TLT, but from the hype, you can feel people much more hyped for those to than TWW. TWW was probably planned before they came up with the world soul saga trilogy and they just have rewritten it a bit to make it fit. That's why I fear we'll see mostly Danuser's wrtiting in it's release patch.

My theory is that Danuser planned TWW as a standalone expansion and then he wanted the Void and Titan expansion to take place in zErEtH uMbRa and ZeReTh OrDuS respectively, but Metzen stepped in and told him to settle down and remember that it's the World of Warcraft, not the World of Dragon Ball.

It was probably Metzen's idea to make the Void and Titan showdowns take place in Quel'Thalas and Northrend.

There comes a certain point in a game's history where you have to stop just adding new shit for the sake of it and start updating the old stuff that has been rotting there for years.

Enough with the new asspulled islands that were conveniently hidden behind a """"magical mist""" until last year. There is a breaking point, and frankly it was already reached with MoP.

There's also the problem that they want to have their cake and eat it too, i.e. asspull a random new island and populate with old world races that, by all accounts, shouldn't be there. That breaks the lore, as evidenced by the Centaur retcon in the Dragon Isles.

This is a Win-Win situation for Blizzard. People love the Old World and want to see it updated, and Blizzard will spend less time designing the new continent because they already have all the concept art and basic geography ready for inspiration, instead of having to design everything from scratch.

[Alanar]

He probably has a poster of Metzen above hes bed. Gotta be.

[Ersula]

Enough with the new asspulled islands that were conveniently hidden behind a """"magical mist""" until last year. There is a breaking point, and frankly it was already reached with MoP.

I think you're conflating Avaloren & Khaz Algar. Khaz Algar wasn't hidden. We were hypothesizing about how they were connected before the expansion was revealed but from what we know now, Avaloren is still hidden away by the Titans & Khaz Algar never was. It's just south of Silithus & west of Pandaria. As far as we know its a known area to the people of Azeroth, like Kazan & that Pirate country. Plus the existence of TWW's landmass is consistent with Metzen's version of Azeroth with this being the landmass that was originally called Ulduar (before the other Titan facilities were conceived)

[Lady Atia]

I think you're conflating Avaloren & Khaz Algar. Khaz Algar wasn't hidden. We were hypothesizing about how they were connected before the expansion was revealed but from what we know now, Avaloren is still hidden away by the Titans & Khaz Algar never was. It's just south of Silithus & west of Pandaria. As far as we know its a known area to the people of Azeroth, like Kazan & that Pirate country. Plus the existence of TWW's landmass is consistent with Metzen's version of Azeroth with this being the landmass that was originally called Ulduar (before the other Titan facilities were conceived)

But the Isle of Dorn is exactly that, a small island - not a huge continent like the original Ulduar.

[Varodoc]

I think you're conflating Avaloren & Khaz Algar. Khaz Algar wasn't hidden. We were hypothesizing about how they were connected before the expansion was revealed but from what we know now, Avaloren is still hidden away by the Titans & Khaz Algar never was. It's just south of Silithus & west of Pandaria. As far as we know its a known area to the people of Azeroth, like Kazan & that Pirate country. Plus the existence of TWW's landmass is consistent with Metzen's version of Azeroth with this being the landmass that was originally called Ulduar (before the other Titan facilities were conceived)

I think I'm obviously talking about the Dragon Isles, but Avaloren and Khaz Algar were also asspulled in 2022 in one codex of one dungeon.

Also, you can't possibly believe that Khaz Algar was already conceived by Metzen in 1999, that bar is so low even for you.

I will blow your mind: the "Ulduar" on that map got incorporated into Kalimdor and became Ahn'Qiraj and Uldum.

[Enrif]

But the Isle of Dorn is exactly that, a small island - not a huge continent like the original Ulduar.

The broken isles used to be just the tomb of sargeras with a bit around it. Things change.

[Lady Atia]

The broken isles used to be just the tomb of sargeras with a bit around it. Things change.

Sure, but there is a difference between increasing something or trying to tell me that the biggest continent got changed into an island lol. The original "Ulduar" was merged with Kalimdor. It would make more sense to say that the original place of Nazjatar got turned into Khaz Algar since it looks like a fissure on that map. But in the end, it doesn't matter since they will have to add new stuff to the map over time, but atleast now we know they are also willing to straight up revamp stuff instead of doing the "asspull landmass" every expansion.

[Ersula]

But the Isle of Dorn is exactly that, a small island - not a huge continent like the original Ulduar.

Irrelevant. The difference is being a huge continent above or below water. It's still the same size as any new expansion area.

Sure, but there is a difference between increasing something or trying to tell me that the biggest continent got changed into an island lol. The original "Ulduar" was merged with Kalimdor. It would make more sense to say that the original place of Nazjatar got turned into Khaz Algar since it looks like a fissure on that map. But in the end, it doesn't matter since they will have to add new stuff to the map over time, but atleast now we know they are also willing to straight up revamp stuff instead of doing the "asspull landmass" every expansion.

Something you can't possibly assume. Based on this concept it's simply a new area they haven't developed yet that has a mysterious connection to the Titans, which is what Khaz Algar is (thought in your defense in the most basic sense that is what every new continent has had.) Khaz Algar isn't inconsistent with the way Metzen created new WoW locations so somehow blaming Denuser for it is ridiculous.

[Varodoc]

The broken isles used to be just the tomb of sargeras with a bit around it. Things change.

And they changed for the worse, in that case.

Legion only gets carried and nostalgia for 3 reasons:

- Main storyline with iconic heroes and villains of the franchise;

- Class questlines;

- Suramar.

The Broken Isles in Legion are stupid as shit, a terrible retcon (they literally retconned what Gul'dan raised, originally he raised the ENTIRE landmass, then they retconned it to just the Broken Shore), and they retroactively make everyone from WC2 and WC3 dumb for never investigating the giant arcane bubble that was right there.

This is why Midnight/TLT and my concepts are superior. You won't have to retcon or "recontextualize" (aka Retcon) a single thing. Everything is already there and waiting to be reused.

[Ersula]

Things do change, yes. But this isn't the old lore, and Khaz'algar is already being incorporated in game, whereas the Broken Isles were only showcased in WC3 and had to be retconned quite a bit before being incorporated into WoW.

So do you feel that's a good thing or a bad thing. The point was Varodoc was trying to say Khaz Algar was Danusers asspull even though we already knew Metzen was working at Blizzard for almost a full year before it was formally announced he was in charge of the franchise. Danuser is long gone. You're going to need a new boogeyman to blame all your problems with wow on.

[Reive]

Danuser was just a scapegoat. Truth is, the whole narrative team is dogshit.

[Ersula]

And they changed for the worse, in that case.

Legion only gets carried and nostalgia for 3 reasons:

- Main storyline with iconic heroes and villains of the franchise;

- Class questlines;

- Suramar.

The Broken Isles in Legion are stupid as shit, a terrible retcon (they literally retconned what Gul'dan raised, originally he raised the ENTIRE landmass, then they retconned it to just the Broken Shore), and they retroactively make everyone from WC2 and WC3 dumb for never investigating the giant arcane bubble that was right there.

What are you trying to do? Legion zones are up there with wrath zones as most beloved expansion zones in the game. There is a nearly 100% chance Midnight will include entirely new, created wholesale, island masses north of Silvermoon, because current Quelthalas is tiny. Just like they did when designing the Broken Isles around the Temple of Elune.

[Varodoc]

So do you feel that's a good thing or a bad thing. The point was Varodoc was trying to say Khaz Algar was Danusers asspull even though we already knew Metzen was working at Blizzard for almost a full year before it was formally announced he was in charge of the franchise. Danuser is long gone. You're going to need a new boogeyman to blame all your problems with wow on.

He returned at Blizzard on December 2022, many months after the Uldaman codex name-dropping Khaz Algar was created by Danuser and his team.

As usual, you are objectively wrong.

Also, isn't the boogeyman of you people still Afrasiabi?

How did Dragonflight being Danuser's baby (without the evil Afrasiabi boogey influence) pan out?

What are you trying to do? Legion zones are up there with wrath zones as most beloved expansion zones in the game. There is a nearly 100% chance Midnight will include entirely new, created wholesale, island masses north of Silvermoon, because current Quelthalas is tiny. Just like they did when designing the Broken Isles around the Temple of Elune.

They have already confirmed that they will enlarge the currently-existing zones.

Try to keep up.

[Enrif]

Legion only gets carried and nostalgia for 3 reasons:

- Suramar.

Might be the minority here. but i think Suramar is extremely overrated and wasn't actually any good, it actually hurt roleplay far more, than it provided as a gameplay experience.

[Ersula]

He returned at Blizzard on December 2022, many months after the Uldaman codex name-dropping Khaz Algar was created by Danuser and his team.

As usual, you are objectively wrong.

Also, isn't the boogeyman of you people still Afrasiabi?

How did Dragonflight being Danuser's baby (without the evil Afrasiabi boogey influence) pan out?



They have already confirmed that they will enlarge the currently-existing zones.

Try to keep up.

The namedrop isn't metzens but you weren't criticizing the name. Your argument so far has been all geographical lore from warcraft 3 to present is bad & making the existing silvermoon huge is somehow better than normal worldbuilding (which is not what they said. When they said expanding on existing zones they didn't mean literally making them bigger. "Expanding on suramar" is what they did when they created the Broken Isles.)

[Varodoc]

Your argument so far has been all geographical lore from warcraft 3 to present is bad

Yeah you're hearing voices.

& making the existing silvermoon huge is somehow better than normal worldbuilding

Pray Tell, what "normal world-builing" is present in DF? Ripping-off totally-not-centaurs from Kalimdor and totally-not-tuskarr from Wrath? Dragon daycares? Totally-not-Deathwing as the main villain? HD Storm Peaks aka Valdraken?

When they said expanding on existing zones they didn't mean literally making them bigger.

That's literally what they said.

"We’re giving our world builders some free rein to expand. Those areas may be geographically larger than they were. That’ll give them more opportunities to introduce some of the smaller points of interest where you’ll have a culture or a local tribe and give them the ability to have storylines that center on that. We don’t want people to feel like, oh, wait a minute, it’s that same place I know. It’s gonna feel like the same place; it’s just that it is literally going to be a little bit larger than what you’ve experienced. Flight being much more accessible, we need to have a larger landmass for people to be able to explore.”

https://gamerant.com/world-of-warcra...he-last-titan/

As usual, only fake news from you.

- - - Updated - - -

What is your argument here? That Khaz'algar is bad or something?

You said it, not Me.

Your preconceived opinion of Khaz Algar is duly noted.

Imma just say this...

If Midnight doesn't end with us going to the ruins of K'aresh, and us fighting either a fully Void infused Azshara, or Dimensius at Full Power...I'll be slightly disappointed. Midnight seems like the perfect time to do that.

Only helps Midnight seems VERY similar to Legion, but for the Void instead.

Azshara will be the final boss of Patch 12.1, aka Sunwell Plateau.

Patch 12.2 will be K'aresh with Dimensius the All-Devouring as the final boss.

Azshara is a pawn, a tool of greater powers, unworthy of being the final boss of anything. Dimensius is signing her pay-check.

[Enrif]

Azshara will be the final boss of Patch 12.1, aka Sunwell Plateau.

Azshara again as a patch boss that leads to fighting the void? Would be a very close repeat of BfA with Nazjatar and then N'zoth.

I think she will tie in more with the elven unification story, but will not appear as a boss.

[Cheezits]

I hope they swap it up and have Azshara beat the Void Lords/Xal for power. Even if she extends to the next saga, she is pretty much the real final boss of Warcraft and responsible for the suffering of so many races and the planet itself.

Denathrius too, but he's not as important.

Considering they implied we lose in Midnight, maybe we beat Dimensius/lock him away but lose to Azshara?

[allegrian]

I hope they swap it up and have Azshara beat the Void Lords/Xal for power. Even if she extends to the next saga, she is pretty much the real final boss of Warcraft and responsible for the suffering of so many races and the planet itself.

Denathrius too, but he's not as important.

Considering they implied we lose in Midnight, maybe we beat Dimensius/lock him away but lose to Azshara?

Nah, the final boss is still Sargeras, who will probably be freed in TLT.