Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Varodoc]

I'm asking what your point was. There is no preconceived opinion. Would respect it if you actually answered the question I asked...

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Nice theory on Midnight tho. I kinda think similar, but I do wonder if they'll have us defeat a Void Lord THIS early in the conflict. Would make sense tho, especially if we're to assume Iridikron's gonna have Titan+ levels of power in TLT, which he likely will.

Power escalation has already reached its peak with Argus the Unmaker. A fully-formed Void Lord is only equal if not even weaker than a World-Soul. Chronicles said that the Void Lords are envious of the Titans' power. Who is stronger or weaker is irrelevant, they are clearly all in the same tier of "Crazy cosmic shit" that we have already seen in Legion. It wouldn't be anything crazy after Legion.

The hard part will be writing Dimensius the All-Devouring as a villain that people can care about and not just a purple voidwalker that spouts the usual one-liners.

For that they will first have to scratch his TBC design, made when he literally was just some random strong voidwalker, and give him a unique design and identity. Something like this:

Azshara again as a patch boss that leads to fighting the void? Would be a very close repeat of BfA with Nazjatar and then N'zoth.

I think she will tie in more with the elven unification story, but will not appear as a boss.

She is an infamous villain that players want to see more of, she has a unique design, and an interesting power-set (water-based spells mixed with Void), and is one of the main agents of the Void left after Cataclysm and BfA. Furthermore, she is the original cause of the Elven peoples' fragmentation, in an expansion that is all about reunifying the Elven peoples.

Furthermore, Blizzard does not shy away from reusing previous expansion's raid bosses, such as Kil'jaeden (TBC and Legion); Archimonde (TBC and WoD); Onyxia and Nefarian (Classic and Cataclysm); Kel'Thuzad (Classic/Wrath and Shadowlands); Ragnaros (Classic and Cataclysm).

Why would she NOT be a boss in Midnight?

[Cheezits]

Nah, the final boss is still Sargeras, who will probably be freed in TLT.

Sargeras at least has noble (kind of) goals, Azshara is just selfish and evil. Even if it comes back to Sargeras, Azshara fits more as the ultimate villain of the setting.

[Xilurm]

Azshara being a final boss would be welcomed. The only people that would complain that she's the final boss "again" would be the same people that would complain if we got a literal nobody as the final boss.

[Xilurm]

Also, the Void Lords are envious of the Titans power because the Titans have control over the physical realm. Each Pantheon is given different gifts from the Progenitors, and as a result, they're all equally jealous of eachother.

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Considering Dimensius is a Void Lord, and Void Lords are the literal cosmic embodiments of non existence...yeah...

Your only choices for the final boss of Midnight would be Azshara or literally nothing lmaooo

Reminder to not put the word "literal" in literally everything.

[Varodoc]

I hope they swap it up and have Azshara beat the Void Lords/Xal for power. Even if she extends to the next saga, she is pretty much the real final boss of Warcraft and responsible for the suffering of so many races and the planet itself.

Denathrius too, but he's not as important.

Considering they implied we lose in Midnight, maybe we beat Dimensius/lock him away but lose to Azshara?

Azshara is not final villain material for an expansion as crucial as Midnight.

Azshara fullfills the same villain archetype role as Gul'dan: a power-hungry mortal, who does not know her place, who thinks she is the real player, when in reality she is just a tool of greater (and more ancient) forces.

Because that's what Azshara has been for her entire existence. She was a pawn of Sargeras during the War of the Ancients, who was just being used by Sargeras to get a gateway opened on the Azeroth end. And she was a pawn of N'Zoth, who was just being used by the Old God to free himself, and her attempt to betray N'Zoth was doomed from the start as N'Zoth was fully aware of her plans.

Like Gul'dan, Azshara could have been the final boss of a smaller-scale expansion, like a Nazjatar-only expansion (like Gul'dan could have been the final boss of WoD, and probably it would have been better).

But having Azshara be the final villain of Midnight would be like Gul'dan as the final villain of Legion. Impossible.

she is pretty much the real final boss of Warcraft and responsible for the suffering of so many races and the planet itself.

Same argument can be made for Gul'dan, who played a huge role in destroying the homeworld of the Orcs and genocided the Draenei, and was the overarching villain of much of the RTS series. Yet this was his end; thrown away like trash, killed like an after-thought, while the story moved on to the REAL players (Kil'jaeden and Sargeras).





As for The Last Titan, it doesn't really make sense for Azshara to last that long. Any villain can overstay their welcome in the spotlight, even a popular one: just look at Sylvanas.

[Cheezits]

Dimensius will clearly get a redesign, is that even a question?

[Varodoc]

Azshara being a final boss would be welcomed. The only people that would complain that she's the final boss "again" would be the same people that would complain if we got a literal nobody as the final boss.

I would love to see Azshara be the final boss of the Quel'Thalas arc of Midnight, just like Kil'jaeden was the final boss of the Broken Isles arc of Legion (before the story moved to Argus).

I just don't see how Azshara fits as the final villain of an expansion like Midnight over Dimensius the All-Devouring, an actual Void Lord.

[Enrif]

She is an infamous villain that players want to see more of, she has a unique design, and an interesting power-set (water-based spells mixed with Void), and is one of the main agents of the Void left after Cataclysm and BfA. Furthermore, she is the original cause of the Elven peoples' fragmentation, in an expansion that is all about reunifying the Elven peoples.

Absolutely, that's why i said she will most likely closely tie into the elven unification story.

Furthermore, Blizzard does not shy away from reusing previous expansion's raid bosses, such as Kil'jaeden (TBC and Legion); Archimonde (TBC and WoD); Onyxia and Nefarian (Classic and Cataclysm); Kel'Thuzad (Classic/Wrath and Shadowlands); Ragnaros (Classic and Cataclysm).

Why would she NOT be a boss in Midnight?

Short Answer: Iridikron.

Long Answer: Blizzard seems to realize they can no longer throw away their villains each expansion. It seems they go for multi expansion arcs for their villains now. It started with Legion with Sylvanas and the seeds for Xal'ataht. Sylvanas got a trilogy of expansions (Legion, BfA, SL) to build her up and make her a boss. Xal'atath got development in BfA where she took a mortal form, and got currently reinforced in DF (implied not shown) and Season of Discovery ties into her too, before showing up in TWW, where we don't even know if she will be a boss or not.
Azshara is one of the last remaining big bads on Azeroth that has a long history and is widely known. Burning her in Midnight wouldn't be good. At best, she get's defeated in some sense, but i don't think she will be the boss of the expansion or a patch.

[Enrif]

Why is Iridikron the short answer?

When it was said we would know who will be the end boss of DF at the end of the Vault of the Incarnates, everyone pointed at Iridikron. But nope, Blizzard doesn't burn Iridikron in DF, they keep him around, built him up, so he can later be used instead of being another Zovaal. Building up Villains. Blizzard probably heavily regrets that Illidan and Arthas were used up so early in WoWs life. And besides these two the one other good villain endboss most people agree on, was Garrosh. Who, like Sylvans, Xal'ataht and Iridikron was built up over multiple expansions.

Now, Sylvanas was handled badly at the end and to much of her build up was not really shown. I hope they learned from these mistakes.

[Murlocos]

Xal'atath really needs a strong introduction in the main questline of TWW. Emphasis on introduction, because I don't think many players even know who this character is as her in-game presence has consisted of 1 of 36 artifact weapons followed by one side questline partway through BfA.

The loreheads know who she is, but she's another example of them needing to tell a coherent story entirely in-game if they want it to have real impact and not tell players to watch Youtube videos and read Wowhead/Wowpedia articles summarizing books and shorts for hours.

[Ersula]

As for The Last Titan, it doesn't really make sense for Azshara to last that long. Any villain can overstay their welcome in the spotlight, even a popular one: just look at Sylvanas.

What I like about Azshara as a villain she will only carry out her patrons' will to the extent she has to. If we're wondering who would infect the Sunwell with void magic it would be the woman who already did so and declared her intention to do so again Alleria

[Cheezits]

Minor Worldsoul Saga/TWW quibble. In an expansion about the sword in Silithus, on an island nearby Silithus, with an Old God cityzone... with transformed Aqir to look more humanoid.... why the hell is it Nerubians instead of Qiraji? Who are ALREADY humanoid?



The cynical answer is because the third expansion is Northrend, so they will just reuse all the models in TWW for new Nerubian stuff. But it feels like a huge waste of potential that we didn't get Qiraji AND Nerubians this saga. And Qiraji fit way more considering the themes and locale of this expansion.

[Varodoc]

What I like about Azshara as a villain she will only carry out her patrons' will to the extent she has to. If we're wondering who would infect the Sunwell with void magic it would be the woman who already did so and declared her intention to do so again Alleria

You want to see an Alliance character do something cool? Are you really sure that is what you want?

Because the Horde still hasn't gotten over Jaina killing 10 Blood Elves back in 2012. Are you 100% ready to see Alleria blow up the Sunwell?

[Varodoc]

Ah yes, I fought the Devil, an infinite Demonic army, Eldritch Horrors beyond mortal comprehension, insane elemental Dragons, etc...

But man, THOSE SPIDER GUYS GOT ME QUIVERING IN MY BOOTS!

That's fairly normal. If you asked the average player who they find scarier between Stalvan Mistmantle and the zOoVaL the DeViL!!!!!, they'd probably answer Stalvan.

Not everyone's existence revolves around tunnel-visioning on power levels and whatnot.

[Xilurm]

I would love to see Azshara be the final boss of the Quel'Thalas arc of Midnight, just like Kil'jaeden was the final boss of the Broken Isles arc of Legion (before the story moved to Argus).

I just don't see how Azshara fits as the final villain of an expansion like Midnight over Dimensius the All-Devouring, an actual Void Lord.

I mean in general Azshara would be a good final boss. Not necessarily for Midnight.

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Except my usage for "literal" absolutely makes sense there lol.

Mine didn't.

[Cheezits]

Also TLT is going to be really underwhelming if it consists entirely of reused models and assets from previous expansions.

-Legion: Vrykul
-Shadowlands: Scourge
-DF: Titan stuff, Tuskarr, Dragons
-TWW: Nerubians, Earthen
-Midnight: Amani (reused for Drakkari)

What will the one new model be? Wolvar? Magnataurs?

[Ersula]

Xal'atath really needs a strong introduction in the main questline of TWW. Emphasis on introduction, because I don't think many players even know who this character is as her in-game presence has consisted of 1 of 36 artifact weapons followed by one side questline partway through BfA.

The loreheads know who she is, but she's another example of them needing to tell a coherent story entirely in-game if they want it to have real impact and not tell players to watch Youtube videos and read Wowhead/Wowpedia articles summarizing books and shorts for hours.

Honestly they are doing it better than they have in a long time, just from the commitment they have had to showing it in SoD. Xal goes to different races & offers them dark magic. Whether is going to have a heel turn or not I think it's very interesting that one of the focus characters, Alleria has also been doing that exact thing with the high elves. Alleria going evil or xal actually being good. The only bad way they can take this story is having both of them be doing exactly what their alignment says, their characrerization stays the same the whole time with no growth & their involvement with void magic is irrelevant.

[Enrif]

Minor Worldsoul Saga/TWW quibble. In an expansion about the sword in Silithus, on an island nearby Silithus, with an Old God cityzone... with transformed Aqir to look more humanoid.... why the hell is it Nerubians instead of Qiraji? Who are ALREADY humanoid?



The cynical answer is because the third expansion is Northrend, so they will just reuse all the models in TWW for new Nerubian stuff. But it feels like a huge waste of potential that we didn't get Qiraji AND Nerubians this saga. And Qiraji fit way more considering the themes and locale of this expansion.

That is a good question. The answer could be a simple: the tip of the sword and the Qiraji will be in an patch zone.

[Murlocos]

Honestly they are doing it better than they have in a long time, just from the commitment they have had to showing it in SoD. Xal goes to different races & offers them dark magic. Whether is going to have a heel turn or not I think it's very interesting that one of the focus characters, Alleria has also been doing that exact thing with the high elves. Alleria going evil or xal actually being good. The only bad way they can take this story is having both of them be doing exactly what their alignment says, their characrerization stays the same the whole time with no growth & their involvement with void magic is irrelevant.

I'm talking about the actual storyline in retail. The SoD stuff is neat, but it should stay as fluff and not mandatory reading for 11.0.

[Enrif]

"I bet Blizzard heavily regrets using Illidan and Arthas up so soon"

Arthas was handled just fine, and Illidan had his moment to shine in Legion. Hell, he's likely going to return in TLT, which means his story's still going on til at least 2030. Idk what you mean by "this early in WoWs life" lol.

Well, they had to bring Illidan back to life for Legion, while it was assumed he was dead the whole time. It even looked multiple times during SL that they might bring back Arthas in a way too (not to mention the interesting choice to have a pre-scourge model of Arthas that only showed up in one of the Jaina cutscenes in BfA).

So yeah, they probably regret that these two character were already used. Illidan they could salvage, while Arthas was flushed down the toilet in SL.