Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Reive]

I mean, Dragonflight is purposefully connected to Northrend not only by location but by how it is a reflection (retroactively) of the original locales and things the Dragons liked from their homeland and subsequently built in Northrend. The Blue made a new Azure Archives through creation of Coldarra, the Red made a small red garden that resembles the Ruby Life Pools, the Wyrmrest tower was made to resemble Valdrakken. Etc. The devs probably looked at Dragonblight first and foremost when getting ideas for the Dragon Isles.

Dev-wise, yes, it means that they can reuse a lot of stuff from Dragonflight in Northrend. But they have to play it careful because it seems the bulk of the expansion will heavily rely on models and concepts from previous expansions. Even if there is a heavy Northrend influence in the Dragon Isles, they still updated a bunch of old models that were never updated before (Dragons, Dragonkin, Centaurs, Gnolls).

Midnight is still going to be the Big Expansion between the three as there is more hype for a revamped Quelthalas than Northrend, even if both were requested. Also it has the biggest potential for a new Class (void-themed equivalent to Paladin) and Race (Ethereals or Naga) vs TLT (Tuskarr are possible, still iffy on Vrykul, and Drakkari would be an AR as would Amani).

people won't care about this. no one wants to see tuskars and centaurs again just because the two continents share similar biomes.

[Varodoc]

This is why I hate Stormheim. It makes Revamped Utgarde Keep redundant.

This is why I hate Azure Span. It makes Revamped Grizzly Hills and Coldarra redundant.

This is why I hate asspulling random islands and populating them with pre-existing races that should not be there.

This is why Pandaria should have served as a model for world-building, as it was a new island populated with entirely-new and unprecedented cultures that didn't clash with or steal the aesthetic of pre-existing races from older continents.

Whatever, they will cut costs and recycle the Azure Span assets for the Revamped Grizzly Hills. I hope the Tuskar nostalgia in a Dragon expansion was worth it!

The Azure Span is peak.

In a vacuum, sure.

But it should have been in Northrend, and called "Grizzly Hills".

[Varodoc]

Also, aren't the Dragon Isles located right next to Northrend?

They could have been anywhere on the map. They could have said that the Cataclysm pushed them southward, simple. They chose to place them near Northrend because they wanted to bait people with the cheap Wrath nostalgia but also didn't consider that they would be making a Revamped Northrend expansion down the line.

Sometimes, different lands can share similar aesthetics...

That's what makes a world a world.

I'm sure the executives will be delighted that they now have a lorefriendly reason to cut costs.

[Ersula]

They could have been anywhere on the map. They could have said that the Cataclysm pushed them southward, simple. They chose to place them near Northrend because they wanted to bait people with the cheap Wrath nostalgia but also didn't consider that they would be making a Revamped Northrend expansion down the line.

You say that when It's more likely they were thinking "we can reuse all these topographical assets when we revamp Northrend."

This is why I hate Stormheim. It makes Revamped Utgarde Keep redundant.

This is why I hate Azure Span. It makes Revamped Grizzly Hills and Coldarra redundant.

This is why I hate asspulling random islands and populating them with pre-existing races that should not be there.

Are you saying all the elf, human & forsaken datamined assets that appeared over the last 2 expansions makes the world revamp they're inevitably going to be used for "redundant?"

The idea that a fantasy setting would have explored & mapped out its entire planet is unheard of.

[Cheezits]

The Dragon Isles being basically Dragonblight is going to be really apparent when they revamp it. Maybe they will work around it by having something nuke that area of the world (Iridikron?)

[Sondrelk]

So on to something completely different for a change:

Now that the expansion is basically over and we move into the realm of filler and pre-expansion stuff. What do people think were the main failings and successes of the expansion?

Main failures are definitely the many events. They are fun enough on their own, but are far too reliant on the sense of community, which means they start failing the second they are no longer relevant, either by players not having fun, or by something new coming out to take it's place. A single one wouldnt be much of an issue, but one for each patch was definitely too much.
The main wins for me is the Trading Post on the cosmetic side, and upgrades on the gameplay side. Both fit snugly into the game, and add large amonts of content that doesnt actually require a lot of thought on the players side. The trading post being done mostly as you do regular stuff, and the upgrade system being a great way to give granular rewards for other content, and which generally made all the events worthwhile as anything other than catch-up for new players.

[Cheezits]

So on to something completely different for a change:

Now that the expansion is basically over and we move into the realm of filler and pre-expansion stuff. What do people think were the main failings and successes of the expansion?

Successes were the Evoker, content cadence (even if post-expansion content has been weak so far), talent trees and open world content, even if the events need to be rehauled.

Failures were the story, tone, and limitations of Dracthyr. Also for half the expansion, an overeliance on community feedback for questing changes/lore fixes.

- - - Updated - - -

Revamped Northrend boutta go crazy fr. Ulduar in a more modernized look? Fuck yes dude.

Imagine us seeing unexplored areas of Ulduar, and maybe a portal realm into the Realms of Order so we could face the Titans in a "Trials of the Twelve" styled ordeal...

Oooo

I think there will be an interesting shift in Northrend being "The Seat of the Titans" versus "The Seat of the Lich King/Scourge" with changes to the landscape to reflect that. Like will ICC and the Scourge even matter in TLT? How will it play into the story?

[Lady Atia]

How is this cutting costs? Stormheim doesn't look exactly like Utgarde Pinnacle, and the Azure Span is full of new and updated assets that aren't akin to much of Northrend.

- - - Updated - - -



Revamped Northrend boutta go crazy fr. Ulduar in a more modernized look? Fuck yes dude.

Imagine us seeing unexplored areas of Ulduar, and maybe a portal realm into the Realms of Order so we could face the Titans in a "Trials of the Twelve" styled ordeal...

Oooo

Hahahaha imagine Varodocs reaction if the final raid of TLT is set in Zereth Ordos.

[Cheezits]

Hahahaha imagine Varodocs reaction if the final raid of TLT is set in Zereth Ordos.

I don't know about Ordos but I do think ICC being connected to the "Grand Design" machine from SL may play a part in the story.

[milkmustache]

So on to something completely different for a change:

Now that the expansion is basically over and we move into the realm of filler and pre-expansion stuff. What do people think were the main failings and successes of the expansion?

The main wins are definitely some of the foundational changes they've applied to the game. A newer UI, Trading post, flightstones and catalyst upgrades, talent trees returning; a lot of these feel great and can be tweaked in the future. Dragonflight laid a lot of good groundwork for systems in the future. The patch cadence has been great. It's been so great that we're all a bit worked up over a .6 patch, something that hasn't been in a normal framework. (I say that mostly in jest)

The main losses to me are the story/pacing and the utilization of the patch features.

It's awesome that they're adding a lot of new things per patch whether it's a .0, .5, .7, etc., but these things fall out of relevance QUICK and they become difficult to do in solo play or small groups. I think the main example of this was Zaralek Caverns. It emptied out around 10.1.5 and there hasn't been an adjustment on scaling with the rares or elite world quests since. The zone has no reason to return to, but this is a problem that's been concurrent across expansions I suppose. It's just a bit amplified here.

The story, yea. Redundant discussion. It's clear that it was derailed by change of leadership and the new plan of the World Soul Saga. Oathstones, Vakthros, Dracthyr, Iridikron, Raszageth, all had some plot lines that either were never resolved or had a clear change of direction. I don't think this is too much to harp on, because if we exchange a questionable storyline for a hopefully great 3 expansion arc, that's a great win. Who knows, Dragonflight could've had a really great story and that would've been wonderful, but it was changed and we'll never know.

Also, side note, homogenization of the factions and races. I'm all for the idea of the Dragonscale Expedition, but the amount of individuality amongst preestablished racial groups and faction subgroups is entirely absent and I think ultimate harms the things that a lot of fans feel are recognizable drawing points of this game.

[Nightshade711]

Wouldn't be shocked if the next Saga was either elemental themed, or Disorder Vs Order themed (Where the Lords of Disorder finally strike, namely from known locations such as Outland, the remnants of the Argus rifts etc)

I hope there’s not a disorder pantheon. Imo it would defeat the purpose of disorder.

But I could see an outside force like Denathrius coming in to take over since Sargeras is gone.

[doledippers]

Now that the expansion is basically over and we move into the realm of filler and pre-expansion stuff. What do people think were the main failings and successes of the expansion?

things that were successes:
-talent revamp
-dragonriding
-professions (in my opinion)
-content cadence
-gear upgrade system
-rotating mythic+ dungeon pool
-raids (specifically amirdrassil)
-no major borrowed power
-default UI is much much better
-evoker
-replacing rep with renowns
-side quests
-trading post
-zskera vaults
-roadmaps
-class reworks

things that were meh / fine
-open world events were ok
-main story was meh
-sniffenseeking, worse than zskera vault imo
-patch zones, ZC and ED were both ok, forbidden reach was good
-very rare items
-augmentation (first time we saw a spec released mid expansion, despite high end balance issues it was largely a success imo)

things that were bad
-legendary acquisition
-some of the cinematics in 10.2
-pvp (just what ive heard, i dont play pvp so cant speak on specifics)
-voice acting for some NPCs

[Cheezits]

Demon gods would elevate that whole section of the lore IMO. That just have to not act like the Eternal Ones (overtly clinical and robotic, though that was on purpose)

Currently demons are primordial poop monsters that are only relevant when a Titan or a Death God (Denny and Zovaal) are manipulating them. They don't really serve a purpose otherwise.

[Ersula]

Now that the expansion is basically over and we move into the realm of filler and pre-expansion stuff. What do people think were the main failings and successes of the expansion?

I think it was a pretty good expansion, only problem is the plot felt very structureless, and by that I mean it felt aimless and it did have a very specific aim (the tree & dragonsoul) but that aim seems completely unrelated to where we started. It feels like the prologue to The Worldsoul Saga, and there's no reason why they can't do a full & complete storyline in a 2-year-long expansion. Imagine you say you're going to resurrect Tyr & release 4 dragon gods at the beginning of the expansion and ultimately you only fight 2 of them & Tyr doesn't do anything. That's a bad story.

[hattahat]

This may be a bit abrupt, but I'm going to write down what I think the story of the Worldsoul Saga will be.
First of all, I'm assuming that the War Within will end with Xal'atath somehow corrupting the Worldsoul of Azeroth into the Void.

Then, in the Midnight expansion, Azeroth is enveloped in darkness, and the Sunwell acts as a bastion of light.
The heroes will rally to the Sunwell and try to use its light to purify Azeroth, while the forces of the Void will attack the Sunwell to take over Azeroth once and for all.
Maybe one of the Void Lords, most notably the already mentioned Dimensius himself, will show up and be the final boss.
But unlike the War Within, this time we win and successfully infuse Azeroth with light.
So Azeroth is somehow stabilized with a balance of Light and Void.

However, the Titans are very unhappy when they discover this.
They may decide that Azeroth has been infused with Light and Void and must be destroyed, or they may try to infuse order once again, but neither of these are good things for the people who already live on Azeroth, and this is what Xal'atath has been planning all along.
Basically, players and heroes have no choice but to defend Azeroth, and up until now, Azeroth has been on its way to becoming the Titan, so players and Titans have automatically been on the same side. Conversely, when Azeroth becomes something else, you have no choice but to fight the Titans.
So, at the point of The Last Titan expansion, I think we're going to be in a position to actually antagonize the Titans a little bit, and maybe even kill some of them in the process.
In particular, we might see Iridikron kill Khaz'goroth, and Aman'thul might be the final boss, and he might be killed by the players.
Eonar could side with the players here, and it could be a natural progression to a life expansion.

[huth]

Disorder just means lacking in government, no law, etc. Anarchy is a pure example of Disorder.

Anarchy is not an example of disorder. Anarchy means only no government, not that there is no order. In fact, a highly ordered society would be the most likely to actually pull that off, as they'd simply not need one.

Meanwhile, a disordered society could still have a government, but it'd be powerless to actually do anything since nobody will care what it says.

[Varodoc]

I think there will be an interesting shift in Northrend being "The Seat of the Titans" versus "The Seat of the Lich King/Scourge" with changes to the landscape to reflect that. Like will ICC and the Scourge even matter in TLT? How will it play into the story?

It will be a reversal of Wrath.

In Wrath, the A-plot was the Scourge, the B-plot was the Titans and Old Gods. The Last Titan will do a reversal.

They will keep the Scourge as a B-plot, and will write a storyline to make them relevant again. Maybe a new Big Bad takes over the Scourge in the absence of the Lich King and has slowly been building up his power-base in Icecrown (which will be revamped, The Maw and Maldraxxus for reference).

Beyond Icecrown, the Scourge is bound to appear in Zul'Drak and Azjol-Nerub, since it invaded and wrecked both kingdoms.

Hahahaha imagine Varodocs reaction if the final raid of TLT is set in Zereth Ordos.

Is this really what we want for the final expansion of the first "chapter" of WoW lore?

As opposed to simply a Revamped Ulduar (Ulduar being the most beloved/nostalgic Raid in this game's history)?

[Super Dickmann]

Iridikron as first end boss in his cave, a Scourge side-story for the second and a revamped Ulduar seems like a no-brainer raid structure. Keeps them visually and thematically distinct.

[Cheezits]

Iridikron as first end boss in his cave, a Scourge side-story for the second and a revamped Ulduar seems like a no-brainer raid structure. Keeps them visually and thematically distinct.

It would be meta and funny if ICC is the second raid in a (real) Wrath 2 expansion.

However, that IS two raid redos.

[Super Dickmann]

It would be meta and funny if ICC is the second raid in a (real) Wrath 2 expansion.

However, that IS two raid redos.

I doubt it'd be ICC because it already got a callback in Shadowlands, whereas the Ulduar thing would be wholly visually revamped, likely in layout as well. We're talking Uldaman more so than Naxx 2.0.