Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Raetary]

How are they gonna be a problem?

It's literally just more talents. You either pick one or the other.

The issue with covenants was that you could not swap (realistically).

They are already pose a cosmetic problem for some classes and specs.

7/13 classes contain hero talents trees that are either explicity or implicitly tied to specific racial/cultural factions, that clash with most other race fantasies.

Hunters got hit hard with 2 out of 3 talents being deeply tied to Nelven and Forsaken Identity respectively.
If you don't happen to be either a Human, Forsaken or an Elf, you are basically screwed.

[Makorus]

There is actually some real and valid concern here. Current DF talent trees are already massive. Now they add even more of them in a separate form that will surely be expanded on in the future. They did call them an "evergreen" feature, after all.

The thing is, the way the system works is good because it allows them to add side-grades rather than just expanding the tree more and more.

They might not necessarily add more talents to the Dark Ranger tree, but just add another Hero Talent tree for Hunters.

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They are already pose a cosmetic problem for some classes and specs.

7/13 classes contain hero talents trees that are either explicity or implicitly tied to specific racial/cultural factions, that clash with most other race fantasies.

Hunters got hit hard with 2 out of 3 talents being deeply tied to Nelven and Forsaken Identity respectively.
If you don't happen to be either a Human, Forsaken or an Elf, you can say goodbye to freely shaping your characters archetype.

You can make that exact same argument with normal talents as well though.

All you have to do is... ignore the name of the tree? Outside of Dark Ranger and the Monk Conduit one, there are hardly any which are inherently specific outside of the name.

[Raetary]

All you have to do is... ignore the name of the tree?

True, it's not like the trees change or come with brand new, thematically fitting spell effects... oh wait.

Turns out, "jUsT iGNorINg thE naME" isn't really gonna work.

[Makorus]

True, it's not like the trees change or come with brand new, thematically fitting spell effects... oh wait.

Outside of the Dark Ranger one, which one really does?

Yeah, the lore for the Hellcaller one is inherently Night Elven, but does the tree or the abilities really show that?

[Raetary]

Outside of the Dark Ranger one, which one does?

All/most of them? As communicated to us by Blizzard last Blizzcon?

[Makorus]

All/most of them? As communicated to us by Blizzard last Blizzcon?

Sorry, how does Slayer represent a certain race/culture? How does Mountain Thane? How does Spellslinger? How does Packleader? How does Shado-Pan (once again, outside of the name)? How does Lightsmith?

That's right, they don't. Dark Ranger is literally the only one (of the current revealed ones anyway) where thematically, gameplay-wise, it only really makes sense to play a Darkfallen/Undead. Outside of that one Hero Talent spec, if you simply ignore the text string that is the name, they are all incredibly race/culture-agnostic.

That is literally the reason we didn't get Blademaster or anything like that.

[Ersula]

Sorry, how does Slayer represent a certain race/culture? How does Mountain Thane? How does Spellslinger? How does Packleader? How does Shado-Pan (once again, outside of the name)? How does Lightsmith?

That's right, they don't. Dark Ranger is literally the only one (of the current revealed ones anyway) where thematically, gameplay-wise, it only really makes sense to play a Darkfallen/Undead. Outside of that one Hero Talent spec, if you simply ignore the text string that is the name, they are all incredibly race/culture-agnostic.

That is literally the reason we didn't get Blademaster or anything like that.

But Dark Ranger is completely literal. A macabre ranger. The only reason you associate it with a specific culture is because there was a major historical event that created a lot of dead elf rangers. You shouldn't feel so bothered by this considering how much Dark Ranger customization they've already given players. And there's a hozen with the title blademaster in the old pandarian class trial. San'layn is more sus because its the elf word for vampire.

I'm okay with Blizzard naming the trees whatever they want so long as they don't use them to identify your character in-game. I doubt it's going to say "Zandalari Troll Chosen of Elune Protection Druid* when people mouseover your character.

[Varodoc]

I think there's potential with this Saga, they're definitely setting up the scene for it. A showdown with the Void in Quel'thalas could be cool.

Legion worked so well because it was kinda the all encompassing threat that linked all of these different races together. The Orcs and Draenei came to this world via the Legion. The Humans fought them because they were agents of the Legion. The Elves have been battling the Legion for centuries. Etc, etc. Even if it had plenty of retcons to make the story worked, it just worked. That's lore alone, not even gameplay, which was also decently fun.

Midnight definitely has that potential, the Void can be a really fun big bad and Quel'thalas can be a really fun frontline for that battle.

I just don't think there is a realistic path to return to smaller scale stories as much as I want them to. I don't think that their narrative trajectory has any room for that.

Honestly, what I think would give the story a lot more room for that is a new unplayable adversarial faction. Not just groups of baddies we wipe through every expansion to be reskinned to new baddies in the next, but a lasting adversary that tracks across story lines. If the Horde and Alliance aren't going to be foes any more, give them a common enemy that forces them to stick together. My hope is that Avaloren in the future will provide just that.

There can never be another expansion like Legion. Legion was an anomaly attained by throwing WoD into the meat-grinder. Content-wise, The War Within already surpasses WoD with Delves, which are infinitely more valuable than Garrisons. We can expect Midnight to not be another Legion in terms of sheer scope, but I do expect Midnight to step up the game and deliver on the "features that will knock players' socks off".

Storywise, Midnight will be a success as people love Quel'Thalas and people love the Void.

I am so happy that Midnight will take place entirely in Quel'Thalas.

I so cannot wait for Human RPers to go to Silvermoon, which will be made Neutral for Midnight (as Midnight will take place entirely in Quel'Thalas, therefore Silvermoon will become Neutral and accessible to the Human RPers). At long last.

[Xilurm]

Well then, that would certainly be something. Still, retroactively added lore does not excite me. We all member the reception of "Jailer was behind everything" in SL.

Well SoD by itself is "different". Alternate timeline maybe? I don't know.

You can read up more on this figure here.

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Shadow..._of_Discovery)

[Ersula]

Well SoD by itself is "different". Alternate timeline maybe? I don't know.

Metzen said SoD is not an alternate history; its canon. It's a new perspective of historical events. He compared it to "found photographs" of WoW history.

[Varodoc]

I won't be surprised if the Harbinger storyline from 10.2.7 will be connected to SoD Phase 3 in some way. The timeline certainly aligns, that being Spring 2024 for both SoD P3 and Patch 10.2.7.

As shown above, SoD is helping Retail build up Xal'atath as the Main Bad of TWW. The Shadowy Figure from SoD is obviously Xal'atath, even a toddler is able to make that connection.

I foresee a double Harbinger questline for both SoD and 10.2.7.

[Xilurm]

Now I wish I kept playing SoD.

[Ersula]

Now I wish I kept playing SoD.

Get back on the horse. We're still in phase 2 for two more months & there's a 100% exp buff now. Honestly SoD is what they're counting on retaining players with this year.

[milkmustache]

I won't be surprised if the Harbinger storyline from 10.2.7 will be connected to SoD Phase 3 in some way. The timeline certainly aligns, that being Spring 2024 for both SoD P3 and Patch 10.2.7.

As shown above, SoD is helping Retail build up Xal'atath as the Main Bad of TWW. The Shadowy Figure from SoD is obviously Xal'atath, even a toddler is able to make that connection.

I foresee a double Harbinger questline for both SoD and 10.2.7.

You're probably right with this.

Maybe we'll see the introduction of the "Dark Heart" into lore with the introduction of Onyxia maybe or some Black Dragonflight content... maybe even something to do with what seems to be a Karazhan Crypts raid, Medivh could have known of it, especially with the implications that he's out in the Twisting Nether looking to stop the Void.

[Thoreya]

Get back on the horse. We're still in phase 2 for two more months & there's a 100% exp buff now. Honestly SoD is what they're counting on retaining players with this year.

SoD phase 2 lost 75% of its playerbase from phase 1 before they did the xp changes. theres a reason they bumped up the xp buff from phase 3 to phase 2, no one was playing. plenty of people have been logged into retail all season long.

[Varodoc]

You're probably right with this.

Maybe we'll see the introduction of the "Dark Heart" into lore with the introduction of Onyxia maybe or some Black Dragonflight content... maybe even something to do with what seems to be a Karazhan Crypts raid, Medivh could have known of it, especially with the implications that he's out in the Twisting Nether looking to stop the Void.

We do have a perfect connection between Xal'atath and a possible Blackrock Depths/Blackrock Spire revisited raid in Phase 4 (Since they were dungeons in the 50-60 bracket, surely they can be revisited in P4):

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Modgud


Considering how Xal'atath whispered madness into the Dark Iron Empress, she can easily be retroactively connected to the Dark Iron/Dark Horde storyline from Classic Blackrock.

And since Xal'atath is an agent of the Void, she can definitely have ties to Onyxia/Nefarian.

Either way, SoD is a golden opportunity to build up Retail's villains; since SoD is literally Retail's past, expanded.

[FossilFree]

How are they gonna be a problem?

It's literally just more talents. You either pick one or the other.

The issue with covenants was that you could not swap (realistically).

The problem is if one of your two hero talent picks will be better than the other. Like being a dps spec and you have two choices for hero talents, but one does higher dps. And so all of the guides tell you to spec one of the two and guilds demand you run that one, even if the thematic was not the one you wanted for your character.

"But I am a beast master! I love using living pets in combat, not undead ones! Why do I need to spec into Dark Ranger to be competitive?"

AKA Covenants

[Makabreska]

The problem is if one of your two hero talent picks will be better than the other. Like being a dps spec and you have two choices for hero talents, but one does higher dps. And so all of the guides tell you to spec one of the two and guilds demand you run that one, even if the thematic was not the one you wanted for your character.

"But I am a beast master! I love using living pets in combat, not undead ones! Why do I need to spec into Dark Ranger to be competitive?"

AKA Covenants

This problem is literally unavoidable. Since Vanilla times, certain talents and builds were simply superior. Question is, how much and in what scenario?

[Makorus]

The problem is if one of your two hero talent picks will be better than the other. Like being a dps spec and you have two choices for hero talents, but one does higher dps. And so all of the guides tell you to spec one of the two and guilds demand you run that one, even if the thematic was not the one you wanted for your character.

"But I am a beast master! I love using living pets in combat, not undead ones! Why do I need to spec into Dark Ranger to be competitive?"

AKA Covenants

Right, you could make the same arguments with normal talents.

"Oh, I am a demon master, why can I not play the huge Demon portal talent?"
"Oh, why do I have to play a fire-focued Elemental, when I want to be lightning-focused?"

The difference compared to Covenants is that you can. You can play the one that thematically is better suited for you, but of course it might be numerically worse. The only way to avoid this would be if every talent was a bland, non-descript passive.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Imagine if Blizzard just gave us class skins or total conversion glyphs. They could bypass so much superfluous discourse with a bundle of texture and model swaps.