Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nathanyel]

I know Wow's geography is always changing to suit the future story, but it made me wonder - if no one can sail west of kalimdor or east of EK due to the storms, why don't they sail north of Northrend instead to get to the other side, or south of Pandaland

Because Azerothian maps all use the Mechator Projection

Serious answer, probably similar as to why IRL nobody travels this way, the pole regions are quite inhospitable, at least similar to the storms barring a journey along the latitudes. Icebergs endanger ships, strong winds bring down airships.

[Darkarath]

I want Avaloren to be a huge exotic continent full of mysteries and crazy landscapes, isolated and completely different from Kal/EK.

I know Wow's geography is always changing to suit the future story, but it made me wonder - if no one can sail west of kalimdor or east of EK due to the storms, why don't they sail north of Northrend instead to get to the other side, or south of Pandaland

With our new friend Vyranoth, aspect of Storms, maybe she can help us get there someday by giving us a ride and quelling the storms

Yeah I hope that with the Worldsoul Saga we can finally leave behind the Keepers, the Titans, the Cosmic Conflict and Azeroth herself (the living being not the planet).

We have already reached, as characters, an insane level of power, which is only going to rise dramatically until TLT is done. Hopefully after this saga we will lose our powers and we can start over with more down to earth stories in Avaloren or whatever other continent Blizzard comes up with.

[Lady Atia]

Yeah I hope that with the Worldsoul Saga we can finally leave behind the Keepers, the Titans, the Cosmic Conflict and Azeroth herself (the living being not the planet).

We have already reached, as characters, an insane level of power, which is only going to rise dramatically until TLT is done. Hopefully after this saga we will lose our powers and we can start over with more down to earth stories in Avaloren or whatever other continent Blizzard comes up with.

Yeah, because people loved it to loose all the power after Legion, right?

[Darkarath]

Yeah, because people loved it to loose all the power after Legion, right?

Power will have to go away eventually unless they create an evergreen system. The current talent system is clearly going to last until TLT is done IMO. Which is like... 10 years for a talent system, which is awesome, but we all know that they cannot keep developing It indefinitely.

I was talking from a lore perspective, though. IMO it is absurd that we have killed Titan level beings.

[Makorus]

I would say that the WoW roster is quite massive so it could be used better? Why use 5 characters instead of 50? I think Legion fucked up the lore in numerous ways but the fanservice of using a very wide roster of characters was actually welcome in the early patches (and sadly reversed completely during Argus)

The problem with using 50 characters is at that point, you have the problem of them just existing to exist instead of developing. Granted, Blizzard isn't the best at always developing characters when they only use 5 characters, but generally they are actually pretty okay.

There's a reason that every MMO with a big cast of characters only uses a few characters per expansion/story arc and rotates them after.

- - - Updated - - -

Power will have to go away eventually unless they create an evergreen system. The current talent system is clearly going to last until TLT is done IMO. Which is like... 10 years for a talent system, which is awesome, but we all know that they can keep developing It indefinitely.

I was talking from a lore perspective, though. IMO it is absurd that we have killed Titan level beings.

And it wouldn't be absurd if we suddenly just became... weaker? There was a global amnesia attack?

[Murlocos]

Suspension of disbelief when it comes to the scale of stories being told has been accepted by the playerbase for the entirety of the game's existence. The only time I remember this being even a mild stir was joking about how random wolves in 80-85 zones are stronger than the Lich King. Nobody cared that we went from killing an enslaved world soul at the end of Legion to fighting bees and pirates in BfA. Nobody will protest a nonexistent loss of power if the smaller scale stories being told are good.

To clarify, I don't think they need to have any narrative about us losing our powers, just write good stories and nobody will think about it.

[Darkarath]

And it wouldn't be absurd if we suddenly just became... weaker? There was a global amnesia attack?

We Azerothians are so strong because we are powered by the most powerful being in existence, Azeroth. After TLT she has to sacrifice herself to save us and so we lose an important part of our powers.

There you go. No amnesia needed.

[Gurahk]

No one in their right mind said that Allied Races wouldn't come back. It was always a system for "This is a race we want but it doesn't make sense to have unlocked from the start".

I distinctly remember people here saying Allied Races were a BfA only feature

[Makorus]

I distinctly remember people here saying Allied Races were a BfA only feature

I remember one person and their argument was "It's on the back of the box for BfA so it's only gonna be a BfA thing" which was an insane argument.

- - - Updated - - -

We Azerothians are so strong because we are powered by the most powerful being in existence, Azeroth. After TLT she has to sacrifice herself to save us and so we lose an important part of our powers.

There you go. No amnesia needed.

And that is less absurd... how? And what would that even change? You act like every single expansion since Legion has us killing Titans from the get-go, as soon as the expansion starts. No one ever comes up to us and says "Hey, you are the guy who killed a titan, cool, nice to meet you.". The fact that not more big characters point out how lethal we are is the biggest issue to be fair. You act like it's unearned, when it's really not.

Every single time we come to a new land, we have to do the dirty work for everyone, kill the wolves and bring back the stolen cows. How is that not enough?

[Darkarath]

And that is less absurd... how? And what would that even change? You act like every single expansion since Legion has us killing Titans from the get-go, as soon as the expansion starts. No one ever comes up to us and says "Hey, you are the guy who killed a titan, cool, nice to meet you.". The fact that not more big characters point out how lethal we are is the biggest issue to be fair. You act like it's unearned, when it's really not.

Every single time we come to a new land, we have to do the dirty work for everyone, kill the wolves and bring back the stolen cows. How is that not enough?

I just do not think that it is sustainable. After Legion it has become a little bit ridiculous IMO. Peak was of course SL, after defeating a being that should have killed us just with a stare, he goes and says that there is even bigger fish out there.

What I am saying is that more down to earth stories with a focus in more charismatic characters instead of just powerful characters because reasons will greatly benefit the game.

Iridikron is a step in the right direction. Especially his humanoid form greatly benefit him as a character and makes him way more interesting than just another big bad dragon. His motives are understandable and he is the first villain that does not underestimate us. He is going to have the time to grow and let us pray that they do not mess him up like they did with Fyrakk and Vyranoth.

To wrap it up:

1- Our power lore wise will have to be tuned down in some way or who the hell are we going to fight next after presumably the Titans and a Void Lord?

2- Our power gameplay wise will have to be eventually tuned down because button bloat and balance issues. We all know that they cannot keep this system forever. And no, keep adding Hero Talents Trees forever is not going to work. I highly doubt that they will add more in the Worldsoul Saga unless it is for a new class / spec.

[Ersula]

I just do not think that it is sustainable. After Legion it has become a little bit ridiculous IMO. Peak was of course SL, after defeating a being that should have killed us just with a stare, he goes and says that there is even bigger fish out there.

We were empowered by the eternals/titans in sl/legion & helped by actual warcraft heroes. The player characters aren't that powerful at all. We mostly take down large threats just from sheer numbers. And that's all a totally unrelated to the mechanics of the character advancement system which are always designed to be evergreen, then reevaluated further down the line.

[Nathanyel]

We're the white blood cells, the bees overheating the hornet with their sheer numbers.

[Cheezits]

Are we thinking two raids or three raids with TWW? I think two raids and a mega dungeon for each expansion is actually incredibly likely, for better or worse.

[Darkarath]

We were empowered by the eternals/titans in sl/legion & helped by actual warcraft heroes. The player characters aren't that powerful at all. We mostly take down large threats just from sheer numbers. And that's all a totally unrelated to the mechanics of the character advancement system which are always designed to be evergreen, then reevaluated further down the line.

Yeah I am well aware that we are always powered up in some way. That does not make it less ridiculous for me, though.

Do not make me wrong, I understand why they do it, but at some point this trend of keep fighting more powerful beings will have to stop. The game has already taken a step back with Fyrakk (which again should have evaporated us with his breath), but from now on we know that the bar is going to get raised quite a lot during the Worldsoul Saga. And it is awesome!! Let us finish this story for good !!

After that, though, a kind of reset will be inevitable and very welcomed.

BTW sheer numbers have ALWAYS been against us. The Legion? Old gods infinite army? The Scourge unlimited undead? Zooval megainfinite undead army? Again, give us more "realistic" threaths. Not everything needs to be bigger and bigger just to make the last threath (which was already superbig by any measure) seem non existant compared to the new.

[Lady Atia]

Yeah I am well aware that we are always powered up in some way. That does not make it less ridiculous for me, though.

Do not make me wrong, I understand why they do it, but at some point this trend of keep fighting more powerful beings will have to stop. The game has already taken a step back with Fyrakk (which again should have evaporated us with his breath), but from now on we know that the bar is going to get raised quite a lot during the Worldsoul Saga. And it is awesome!! Let us finish this story for good !!

After that, though, a kind of reset will be inevitable and very welcomed.

BTW sheer numbers have ALWAYS been against us. The Legion? Old gods infinite army? The Scourge unlimited undead? Zooval megainfinite undead army? Again, give us more "realistic" threaths. Not everything needs to be bigger and bigger just to make the last threath (which was already superbig by any measure) seem non existant compared to the new.

Warcraft was NEVER about "realistic" threaths though. Even the Defias in classic were manipulated by a black dragon who also played the double game in the stormwind throne room.

[Foolicious]

Are we thinking two raids or three raids with TWW? I think two raids and a mega dungeon for each expansion is actually incredibly likely, for better or worse.

If the expansions are indeed a bit shorter than they usually are i can see that. I don't think we will see a huge innovation when it comes to the amount of pve content.

[Cheezits]

Warcraft was NEVER about "realistic" threaths though. Even the Defias in classic were manipulated by a black dragon who also played the double game in the stormwind throne room.

Don't forget that the culmination of the Defias threat is a giant tugboat full of cannons in a pirate cove.

[Darkarath]

Warcraft was NEVER about "realistic" threaths though. Even the Defias in classic were manipulated by a black dragon who also played the double game in the stormwind throne room.

What I mean with "realistic" is that not every army needs to be infinite and not every threath needs to be more powerful than the one before.

The Scourge felt "realistic" even if we of course are in a fantasy world. It was well executed IMO (in WotLK). Garrosh's path to become a villain was (mostly) well done and "realistic". I think that the story was never more interesting than in MoP with the war faction and the different alliances and interactions between the races. The most down to earth expansion (MoP) was the best story in WoW by far IMO.

[Nymrohd]

The problem with using 50 characters is at that point, you have the problem of them just existing to exist instead of developing. Granted, Blizzard isn't the best at always developing characters when they only use 5 characters, but generally they are actually pretty okay.

There's a reason that every MMO with a big cast of characters only uses a few characters per expansion/story arc and rotates them after.

Fair, but how fast should they be rotated. ESO does that as well but it rotates the cast every year (and up until recently, twice a year)

[Cherry123]

Streamers really started alpha hype. I hope they know something