Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

Streamers really started alpha hype. I hope they know something

Where is this?

[Auxis]

So I'm off to bed, which means the This Week article should be up in a few hours, or at least by the time i wake up.

I get the feeling they won't do the last batch of hero trees AND alpha date in the same week. Maybe alpha the week after to give people time to go over the trees, give written feedback b4 jumping in and testing some ingame.

Having said that, I think this week will be a Retail week. Hoping for Hero trees and/or 10.2.7 info.

[Murlocos]

Are we thinking two raids or three raids with TWW? I think two raids and a mega dungeon for each expansion is actually incredibly likely, for better or worse.

Unless this includes an 11.2 that's otherwise very meaty without a raid, I don't see how a two raid/two season cycle fits into their ~60-70 day patch cadence. You'd either need a Fated season 3 running as long as a regular season or to stretch out the two normal seasons into 7-8 or even closer to 10 months each with even more space between minor patches, which would be SL levels of major patch droughts. Unless the minor patches get serious upgrades, which hasn't been the case in the latter half of DF thus far, this would be a massive mistake and easily pointed out as them making expansions faster by simply giving you less and less content in them.

[Makorus]

Are we thinking two raids or three raids with TWW? I think two raids and a mega dungeon for each expansion is actually incredibly likely, for better or worse.

No way it's gonna be two raids.

I honestly don't know why people say that. Because they said they are looking for a shorter release cadence?

[Dracullus]

Are we thinking two raids or three raids with TWW? I think two raids and a mega dungeon for each expansion is actually incredibly likely, for better or worse.

Why break something that works? Not only in DF, people forget second half of SL had also healthy season length - Sepulcher lasted 22 weeks, S4 - 12 weeks, also 9.2.5 was this proto mini patch which we see often in DF.

Metzen promised us "little bit shorter" expacs in Blizzcon, but after that Blizzard clarified they want end saga before 2030, which doesn't sound like three 2-tier expansions. Imo main point for revealing saga at once was to convince people this storyline is something bigger and not just trip to underground.

At best I can see them throwing out fated season if really they can release Midnight earlier than 20 months after TWW, but probably they would went with shorter than 6 months seasons + fated instead.

[Valysar]

Are we thinking two raids or three raids with TWW? I think two raids and a mega dungeon for each expansion is actually incredibly likely, for better or worse.

I think every xpac will look the same now, 2-3 raids + 1 megadungeon yes + events for each patches.

[allegrian]

At what time can we expect the this week in wow post?

[justwatching]

At what time can we expect the this week in wow post?

I think around 1 PM eastern.

[Sondrelk]

No way it's gonna be two raids.

I honestly don't know why people say that. Because they said they are looking for a shorter release cadence?

Annual expansions does make some sense. Obviously a two year cycle with four raids works well since you get both the length and the consistent expansion release.
Annual expansions are not as long, but can be more focused on the main story.
18 month expansions meanwhile are both a bit too long to have a single main storyline. Too short to have several concurrent storylines. And means the expansion releases will be at different times of the year each time a new one comes out.

Importantly though, annual expansions just makes sense for the kind of story we can expect to see in the Worldsoul saga. Each expansions can work fully as a single act, focusing on a single facet of the greater story, without getting too bogged down in the weeds of minor antagonists.

[Sentynel]

Annual expansions does make some sense. Obviously a two year cycle with four raids works well since you get both the length and the consistent expansion release.
Annual expansions are not as long, but can be more focused on the main story.
18 month expansions meanwhile are both a bit too long to have a single main storyline. Too short to have several concurrent storylines. And means the expansion releases will be at different times of the year each time a new one comes out.

Importantly though, annual expansions just makes sense for the kind of story we can expect to see in the Worldsoul saga. Each expansions can work fully as a single act, focusing on a single facet of the greater story, without getting too bogged down in the weeds of minor antagonists.

So basically a cash grab. No thanks, I think 18 months is the bare minimum.

[Cheezits]

Unless this includes an 11.2 that's otherwise very meaty without a raid, I don't see how a two raid/two season cycle fits into their ~60-70 day patch cadence. You'd either need a Fated season 3 running as long as a regular season or to stretch out the two normal seasons into 7-8 or even closer to 10 months each with even more space between minor patches, which would be SL levels of major patch droughts. Unless the minor patches get serious upgrades, which hasn't been the case in the latter half of DF thus far, this would be a massive mistake and easily pointed out as them making expansions faster by simply giving you less and less content in them.

I think this could be the case, as the post-Amidrassil minor patches are very different in scope from the pre-Amirdrassil minor patches. There's a difference between these post-expansion filler patches and the beefier ones that came before like the Forbidden Reach and Dawn of the Infinite patches, which may be more what the scope of a minor patch looks like in TWW.

[Makabreska]

I think every xpac will look the same now, 2-3 raids + 1 megadungeon yes + events for each patches.

There is like, a huge difference between 2 or 3 raids. That's a difference of an entire season, which lasts ~6 months, so which is it? Why do we think we will only have two proper seasons when they already reduced their number from 4 to 3?

- - - Updated - - -

Annual expansions does make some sense. Obviously a two year cycle with four raids works well since you get both the length and the consistent expansion release.
Annual expansions are not as long, but can be more focused on the main story.
18 month expansions meanwhile are both a bit too long to have a single main storyline. Too short to have several concurrent storylines. And means the expansion releases will be at different times of the year each time a new one comes out.

Importantly though, annual expansions just makes sense for the kind of story we can expect to see in the Worldsoul saga. Each expansions can work fully as a single act, focusing on a single facet of the greater story, without getting too bogged down in the weeds of minor antagonists.

Ye, good luck for Blizz with annual expansions when they barely made DF on time, and it still seemed to have cut content. I also doubt players would react positively to all of this. Not sure why you are eager to pay top AAA game price yearly. 18 months being awkward is just how you feel about it.

[milkmustache]

I think this could be the case, as the post-Amidrassil minor patches are very different in scope from the pre-Amirdrassil minor patches. There's a difference between these post-expansion filler patches and the beefier ones that came before like the Forbidden Reach and Dawn of the Infinite patches, which may be more what the scope of a minor patch looks like in TWW.

The Forbidden Reach seems to have been created with a great thought behind. Its multiple purposes in being both a racial starting zone and a max level zone without ever feeling like content cut from the initial launch patch really lent to how great it felt. Even if it was meant as an end game zone for 10.0, the hypothetical rework into a renown farm with additional story released within a .7 patch is a great move. I'm sure a lot of people see it as paying for XYZ but only getting X & Y at first, but with each patch having more content, spreading these sort of things out to develop the story.. kinda love it. I know a lot of people weren't thrilled with the Dracthyr, but I think their story and the usage of the Forbidden Reach was definitely a highlight of Dragonflight.

That does raise the possibility of difference when reflecting on post 10.2 patches. I think these are an outlier entirely due to the fact that they're completely revisiting the expansion pipeline with the World Soul Saga, so it's not surprising that DF is being propped up on a skeleton crew. A bummer of a finish for an otherwise great expansion (systems wise, story blech), but it can be excused.

- - - Updated - - -

Ye, good luck for Blizz with annual expansions when they barely made DF on time, and it still seemed to have cut content. Not sure why you are eager to pay top expansion price yearly. 18 months being awkward is just how you feel about it.

DF is interesting though, I think there was certainly cut content, but the majority of it seems to be an entire narrative switch.

Vakthros is content that seems to have been cut.

The entire story and pacing seems to have been changed.

DF still had a good quantity of content, but maybe the narrative direction required some cuts which would instead give us filler patches that seemed poorly thought out (maybe that's the excuse Gilneas could take, because good god what was that)

[Murlocos]

I think this could be the case, as the post-Amidrassil minor patches are very different in scope from the pre-Amirdrassil minor patches. There's a difference between these post-expansion filler patches and the beefier ones that came before like the Forbidden Reach and Dawn of the Infinite patches, which may be more what the scope of a minor patch looks like in TWW.

I view 10.0.7 with an asterisk since the Reach itself was created at launch, it just got populated into an endgame zone months later. Despite the mantra of 4 zones 8 dungeons 1 raid as the existing norm even from Blizzard employees themselves, TWW is actually the first expansion where there'll only be 4 zones at launch.

Either way, I don't see it working even with four minor patches on par with 10.0.7 or 10.1.5. I'll say I'm more than ready for us to just dig into the alpha already so we can get a better idea of how exactly things will play out.

[Valysar]

The solar eclipse is the best way to announce alpha.

[Makorus]

Annual expansions does make some sense. Obviously a two year cycle with four raids works well since you get both the length and the consistent expansion release.
Annual expansions are not as long, but can be more focused on the main story.
18 month expansions meanwhile are both a bit too long to have a single main storyline. Too short to have several concurrent storylines. And means the expansion releases will be at different times of the year each time a new one comes out.

Importantly though, annual expansions just makes sense for the kind of story we can expect to see in the Worldsoul saga. Each expansions can work fully as a single act, focusing on a single facet of the greater story, without getting too bogged down in the weeds of minor antagonists.

Length is irrelevant in regards to quality. You can have a 18 month expansion with concurrent storylines. Likewise, prior "longer" expansions haven't really managed to get good concurrent storylines right, with the exception of maybe MoP. And guess what: 5.4 came out not even a year after release. The issue with MoP was that 5.4 lasted as long as the rest of the expansion combined, however, with the new workflow Blizzard has, that doesn't necessarily have to happen again.

I'll honestly eat a shoe if TWW and onward doesn't follow the DF release model (I mean, the roadmap kinda hints at that anyway) just a bit meatier.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Are we thinking two raids or three raids with TWW? I think two raids and a mega dungeon for each expansion is actually incredibly likely, for better or worse.

Assume if they do not confront this question head on in Alpha or Beta interviews that this is the case.

I have no issues with it beyond how weird it was to market the story first at Blizzcon when it obviously will have problems under such a structure, I do have an issue with them not being able to state it coherently in a public manner though and using Metzen in such a manner when the story does not have the support of the company or the Team.

I'd say they should just get to the Annual Expansions immediately instead of this 18 month thing. Lets focus on the profiteering.

[Valysar]

Another 1 hour wait for the This Week in WoW

[allegrian]

DF is interesting though, I think there was certainly cut content, but the majority of it seems to be an entire narrative switch.

Vakthros is content that seems to have been cut.

The entire story and pacing seems to have been changed.

DF still had a good quantity of content, but maybe the narrative direction required some cuts which would instead give us filler patches that seemed poorly thought out (maybe that's the excuse Gilneas could take, because good god what was that)

It's clear they cut the story Danuser was telling to make DF fit the upcoming world soul Saga. I imagine Danuser also started the idea of the war within but Metzen came back and changed its story. They were clearly hinting at Tyr and the titans being important in DF. They dropped the oathstones after 10.0 and fyrakk was probably meant to be the boss in Aberrus at first. They also wanted Ysera and Wrathion to be aspects thus killing malfurion which would have been stupid and another spit to the NE lol.

[Makabreska]

Suddenly, an update!