Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Sondrelk]

Btw, TWW alpha will already include items and such from 10.2.7 right?

Not necessarily. It could easily be based on an earlier version of WoW like 10.2.5, or even 10.2. Even more so if 10.2.7 has not been on the PTR a while.

[Nathanyel]

Assuming Hero Talents are going to stay after TWW, it is highely unlikely that we will actually see 4th specs, and given the precedent with rogue/warlock tanks and mage healer in SoD with a simple rune (revamp for the glyph system perhaps?), seems more plausible then betting on 4th specs, that are a bit at odds with hero talents later on.

That is assuming Hero Talents will stay rigid after TWW. Ignoring the balancing nightmare, there could be additional Hero Talents in MN or TLT. Or the new specs get "added" to existing trees.
And runes like in SoD would run into the same problem, turning one spec with two specific Hero Talent trees into a different role.

Overall, entirely new specs make more sense, but will of course take time, and may be delayed if we get a new class in 12.0 or 13.0

[Cheezits]

Honestly they should stop being so secretive about 10.2.7 and reveal it, drop alpha right after, and then test 10.2.7.

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That is assuming Hero Talents will stay rigid after TWW. Ignoring the balancing nightmare, there could be additional Hero Talents in MN or TLT. Or the new specs get "added" to existing trees.
And runes like in SoD would run into the same problem, turning one spec with two specific Hero Talent trees into a different role.

Overall, entirely new specs make more sense, but will of course take time, and may be delayed if we get a new class in 12.0 or 13.0

Honestly they should do an expansion without any major class changes and see what happens.

[Nymrohd]

Assuming Hero Talents are going to stay after TWW, it is highely unlikely that we will actually see 4th specs, and given the precedent with rogue/warlock tanks and mage healer in SoD with a simple rune (revamp for the glyph system perhaps?), seems more plausible then betting on 4th specs, that are a bit at odds with hero talents later on.

Hero Talents are likely going to stay around for the entire trilogy. After the trilogy we will probably see yet another redesign of the class system and I assume elements of everything they'd have built up till then will remain.

[Enrif]

That is assuming Hero Talents will stay rigid after TWW. Ignoring the balancing nightmare, there could be additional Hero Talents in MN or TLT. Or the new specs get "added" to existing trees.
And runes like in SoD would run into the same problem, turning one spec with two specific Hero Talent trees into a different role.

Overall, entirely new specs make more sense, but will of course take time, and may be delayed if we get a new class in 12.0 or 13.0

There are many assumption and nothing we can say for sure. for all we know, they could add a rune like system for hero talents instead of specs. Like, the trickster hero talents for rogue are strange, in that it wants to use defensives. But what if it could be turned to a tank hero talent for rogues? This is also an option. The base spec stays the same, and the hero talents covers all the role specific powers.

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Hero Talents are likely going to stay around for the entire trilogy. After the trilogy we will probably see yet another redesign of the class system and I assume elements of everything they'd have built up till then will remain.

i'm in the same boat. I wouldn't even mind a total overhaul of the class system after the WSS.

[Nymrohd]

i'm in the same boat. I wouldn't even mind a total overhaul of the class system after the WSS.

Tbh some of the things I'd want aren't really possible in the current system (more racial archetypes) so I wouldn't mind it at all either.

[Makorus]

I still hope Hero Talents are gonna stay horizontal rather than vertical.

Add new ones, but leave the old ones the same. Makes the most sense, and there is no power bloat. That's how Guild Wars 2 does it, essentially.

[Darkarath]

I still hope Hero Talents are gonna stay horizontal rather than vertical.

Add new ones, but leave the old ones the same. Makes the most sense, and there is no power bloat. That's how Guild Wars 2 does it, essentially.

It is not sustainable.

Just in TWW they are adding 39 Hero Talent Trees and over 450 talents (without the basic talent trees).

We have discussed this already. At some point it is obvious that they will have to revamp the system and star anew.

We will soon get more information about them. As a casual player I do not mind them too much, but I think that they should have been only cosmetic. In their current version they will cause problems.

[Cheezits]

We will soon get more information about them. As a casual player I do not mind them too much, but I think that they should have been only cosmetic. In their current version they will cause problems.

But would you have been okay with classes remaining more or less the same for two expansions?

[Ersula]

I still hope Hero Talents are gonna stay horizontal rather than vertical.

Add new ones, but leave the old ones the same. Makes the most sense, and there is no power bloat. That's how Guild Wars 2 does it, essentially.

This would make the most sense. Plus, since they start with a set of choices for each existing spec, I think they will add new ones periodically during the Saga in patches, just so people won't expect a whole set of three every expansion: For example, by the end of The Last Titan each class has six hero talent kits.

It is not sustainable.

Just in TWW they are adding 39 Hero Talent Trees and over 450 talents (without the basic talent trees).

We have discussed this already. At some point it is obvious that they will have to revamp the system and star anew.

We will soon get more information about them. As a casual player I do not mind them too much, but I think that they should have been only cosmetic. In their current version they will cause problems.

Simple solution: Don't add a whole set of new ones every expansion. Maybe just one per expansion. There may not be one for your preferred spec but you'll still get one your class has access to. (That especially isn't so overwhelming when some of the hero trees are just "the exact same rotation but with mounted combat" or "the exact same rotation but with uncontrollable pets")

Clearly they'll come up with something new at the end of the Saga but that's 5+ years away. They don't need to have a plan for that right now.

[Darkarath]

But would you have been okay with classes remaining more or less the same for two expansions?

Absolutely.

Current talent trees have been iterated upon and mostly they are in a good place. Keep working on them and give cosmetic options and I would be happy.

What they should do is PvP only skills, maybe with small talent trees, completely separated of their PvE versions. Plunderstorm has shown them what path they have to follow for PvP.

[Foolicious]

It is not sustainable.

Just in TWW they are adding 39 Hero Talent Trees and over 450 talents (without the basic talent trees).

We have discussed this already. At some point it is obvious that they will have to revamp the system and star anew.

We will soon get more information about them. As a casual player I do not mind them too much, but I think that they should have been only cosmetic. In their current version they will cause problems.

Most hero talent trees can be worked into the existing tree pretty easily. I mean marksman has baseline talents that feel more like dark ranger than the dark ranger tree.
For the majority that we have seen they could be summarized in a new capstone plus one or two talents later down the line.

[Dracullus]

Honestly they should stop being so secretive about 10.2.7 and reveal it, drop alpha right after, and then test 10.2.7.

No one is secretive about 10.2.7. They treat it as every patch beside 10.2.6.

[Ersula]

No one is secretive about 10.2.7. They treat it as every patch beside 10.2.6.

I would hope so. But we still haven't heard anything about 10.2.7 in 3 weeks. Every other patch in Dragonflight was on the ptr within 2 weeks of the previous patch going live.

[Dracullus]

I would hope so. But we still haven't heard anything about 10.2.7 in 3 weeks. Every other patch in Dragonflight was on the ptr within 2 weeks of the previous patch going live.

Yeah, but 10.2.6 is 2-part patch and most likely date for 10.2.7 is June, not May, so time for PTR is around this month. To be honest I don't get why S4 wasn't called 10.2.7 and Dark Heart 10.2.8.

[Vexilius]

Current talent trees have been iterated upon and mostly they are in a good place..

Not even close. Non demo warlock is a nightmare. I'm sure there are others. Hero talents are a train wreck and they're building off spec trees that are terrible in some cases.

[Ersula]

Not even close. Non demo warlock is a nightmare. I'm sure there are others. Hero talents are a train wreck and they're building off spec trees that are terrible in some cases.

We haven't even gotten to play them yet. I've never seen such purely theoretical panic from the fanbase before.

[Enrif]

I've never seen such purely theoretical panic from the fanbase before.

Azerite Armor and Covenent Abilites got the same panic. For Azerite Armor it was warranted, but Covenent Abilites was overblown.

[Cheezits]

We haven't even gotten to play them yet. I've never seen such purely theoretical panic from the fanbase before.

Youtube clickbait, Blizzard mismarketing them because TWW has little to no new features, and general public confusion are the biggest culprits. Though I think it's understabdable some people may be miffed if they don't want to use a dark ranger spell if their hunter isn't a dark ranger.

Oddly enough that's like the one hero tree that gets shit for being thematically invasive so maybe they will just rework it. I haven't seen anything like that for the other classes, not even the Mountain Thane tree (maybe because the other trees are good)

[Dracullus]

Azerite Armor and Covenent Abilites got the same panic. For Azerite Armor it was warranted, but Covenent Abilites was overblown.

Not to mention in both change was restricted heavily - by gold, item drop, azerite grind, covenant choice etc., hence people were in constant panic mode if Blizzard manage to make them even. Now we can change any talent on the fly, for people that just want bis there will be no difference between copy->paste string between DF and TWW.