Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[justwatching]

First of all BFAs low was before the release of Classic and was in a similiar category as SLs low which includes Classic so without that SL wouldve dipped way way lower. Also to pretend that 9.1 caused an uptick is some revisionist history.


Blizzard themselves talked about the amount of damage SL did(a large part of the GDC presentation was about that) and that they are still in the process of recovering from that.


BFA was bad but SL almost killed the brand.

[Ersula]

Also to pretend that 9.1 caused an uptick is some revisionist history.

I don't know what to tell you. It's all right here. Shadowlands had a 9.1 uptick. BFA's upticks are just Classic & the announcement of Shadowlands.

[Khaza-R]

I also don't buy that BfA lost more subs than SL for the sheer fact that COVID lockdowns occurred during 8.3 and I can remember meeting dozens of people who hadn't played the game in years.

Where as with SL you had a questionable expansion, lawsuit drama and things naturally opening back up.

[justwatching]

I don't know what to tell you. It's all right here. Shadowlands had a 9.1 uptick. BFA's upticks are just Classic & the announcement of Shadowlands.

Patch 9.1 released at the end of June 2021 about a month after TBC Classic. There is no uptick in the graph at that point. Also I love how you ignore the existence of TBC.


EDIT: The uptick that I think you are referring to is chronologically shortly before the release of TBC Classic. The only thing I can see is a slight flattening of the decline probably caused by TBC Classic and possibly 9.1.5("the ripcord").

[Ersula]

I also don't buy that BfA lost more subs than SL for the sheer fact that COVID lockdowns occurred during 8.3 and I can remember meeting dozens of people who hadn't played the game in years.

Where as with SL you had a questionable expansion, lawsuit drama and things naturally opening back up.

Patch 9.1 released at the end of June 2021 about a month after TBC Classic. There is no uptick in the graph at that point. Also I love how you ignore the existence of TBC.

So when subs are good it's classic's fault & when subs are bad it's retail's fault? That's convenient.

For being the expansion that almost killed the brand it's weird that it's subscription figures are extremely close to Legion's. It's almost like that statement is enormous hyperbole.

[justwatching]

So when subs are good it's classic's fault & when subs are bad it's retail's fault? That's convenient.

No one said that. You tried to attribute a slight flattening of the decline solely to 9.1 and spin it into an uptick completely ignoring that TBC Classic launched in exactly that time frame. 9.1 was a complete disaster hence why 9.1.5 became known as the ripcord patch.


I really dont know why you're trying to defend Shadowlands when even Blizzard wouldnt.

For being the expansion that almost killed the brand it's weird that it's subscription figures are extremely close to Legion's. It's almost like that statement is enormous hyperbole.

You can keep pretending that its not the case but Classic has at least 2-3 Million active players at that point in time(I'm guesstimating based on raid activity). So comparing subs like that is just intellectually disingenuous.

Believe what you want to believe. I'll stay in reality where the developer himself admitted it was a massive failure.

[Varodoc]

No one said that. You tried to attribute a slight flattening of the decline solely to 9.1 and spin it into an uptick completely ignoring that TBC Classic launched in exactly that time frame. 9.1 was a complete disaster hence why 9.1.5 became known as the ripcord patch.


I really dont know why you're trying to defend Shadowlands when even Blizzard wouldnt.

It's all the same with these people, they defend Shadowlands because Sylvanas got a redemption arc, simultaneously they hate BFA because Sylvanas was the villain.

As I already said, they are trying to mask their agenda with "gameplay"; but they don't actually care about the gameplay.

Reverse the story arcs (so BfA gets the Hero/Redeemed Sylvanas story arc) and I guarantee you he'd be shilling for BfA.

[Khaza-R]

So when subs are good it's classic's fault & when subs are bad it's retail's fault? That's convenient.

For being the expansion that almost killed the brand it's weird that it's subscription figures are extremely close to Legion's. It's almost like that statement is enormous hyperbole.

Its impossible to say since Blizzard is the only one who knows the distinction. Hence why I didn't even mentions retail vs classic in my post. I am just saying logically, its hard to believe BfA had more drop off than SL given the events going on at that time.

[justwatching]

It's all the same with these people, they defend Shadowlands because Sylvanas got a redemption arc, simultaneously they hate BFA because Sylvanas was the villain.

As I already said, they are trying to mask their agenda with "gameplay"; but they don't actually care about the gameplay.

Reverse the story arcs (so BfA gets the Hero/Redeemed Sylvanas story arc) and I guarantee you he'd be shilling for BfA.

You know I can deal with a subjective argument but I really dont know why people feel the need to make shit up just to justify their preferences. It's like people forgot they are allowed to like something that isnt hugely popular.

[Varodoc]

You know I can deal with a subjective argument but I really dont know why people feel the need to make shit up just to justify their preferences. It's like people forgot they are allowed to like something that isnt hugely popular.

Because I am right. There is a correlation between shilling for Shadowlands and liking Sylvanas and I have it all figured out.

Pretty much every single SL shill I have come across also likes Sylvanas. It is not a coincidence.

You are welcomed to believe that there is no hidden agenda here, but you would be wrong.

[justwatching]

Because I am right. There is a correlation between shilling for Shadowlands and liking Sylvanas and I have it all figured out.

You are welcomed to believe that there is no hidden agenda here, but you would be wrong.

You are probably right. I wasnt really disagreeing with you.

[Reive]

Because I am right. There is a correlation between shilling for Shadowlands and liking Sylvanas and I have it all figured out.

Pretty much every single SL shill I have come across also likes Sylvanas. It is not a coincidence.

You are welcomed to believe that there is no hidden agenda here, but you would be wrong.

i liked shadowlands because i liked the zones and because it had the best class design since wod

i couldn't care less about silvanus

[Varodoc]

i liked shadowlands because i liked the zones and because it had the best class design since wod

i couldn't care less about silvanus

And do you also despise BfA with a passion like that other poster?

[Reive]

And do you also despise BfA with a passion like that other poster?

i didn't play bfa when it was live. i quit in legion and came back for shadowlands prepatch. the little bfa i did was fine for me. boralus is probably my favorite hub

[Nymrohd]

i liked shadowlands because i liked the zones and because it had the best class design since wod

i couldn't care less about silvanus

You really felt SL had great class design? I mean it was not bad but I felt Legion was better and DF is much better

[Darkarath]

Because I am right. There is a correlation between shilling for Shadowlands and liking Sylvanas and I have it all figured out.

Pretty much every single SL shill I have come across also likes Sylvanas. It is not a coincidence.

You are welcomed to believe that there is no hidden agenda here, but you would be wrong.

Hahahaha

Good old Varodoc, you believing everything that you think always make me smile. It is going to be fun to follow your comments from TWW onwards.

[Varodoc]

i didn't play bfa when it was live. i quit in legion and came back for shadowlands prepatch. the little bfa i did was fine for me. boralus is probably my favorite hub

That's fine.

What is more hilarious than fine is shilling for Shadowlands while hating Bfa with a passion.

How is it possible for someone to love Shadowlands' gameplay but despise Bfa? Shadowlands is literally just the BfA formula with even more borrowed power added onto it.

[Ersula]

Believe what you want to believe. I'll stay in reality where the developer himself admitted it was a massive failure.

Show me where a dev said that (because they didn't. You're hyperbolically misrepresenting the chinese investor presentation Bellular analyzed.)

Again: Legion's subs are very close to Shadowland's. From WoD onward we've entered this stable period of subs between 8 & 4 million. Where before 6.0 the subs swelled to 12 million during Wrath then fell to 7 million at the end of MoP. Legion, BFA & Shadowlands all hit both 7 million & 4 & a half million so this idea Shadowlands ruined the brand is in your mind.

You can say the (small) amount of Dragonflight sub data they give us means Dragonflight is a better expansion than Legion but the Legion stans are going to take exception with that.

[Reive]

shadowlands was only a failure because they fumbled hard and managed to lose a lot of players. the first months of 9.0 were a success.

[Nere]

Are people really trying to defend SL? It's easily the worst expansion of WoW.