Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Sondrelk]

The question: why would the argent crusade relocate to crystal song? The tournament grounds could have been a great place to expand into a city. While crystal song could be the way to the below Northrend zones.

The Argent Crusade did have the encampment in Icecrown originally, so you could just have them make up some quick excuse that most of the Argent Tournament grounds are too unstable for anything, and that their main base of operations in Northrend post-SL pre-patch is further south.
The Argent Crusade likely have a presence in Northrend given the feral Scourge that need containing, and why not have a nice city to go alongside it as well. I doubt the non-combat oriented members of the Crusade are happy sharing Acherus with the DKs, or being cooped up all the way back in the Borean Tundra for the faction hubs.

The Horde and Alliance bases on each side of Northrend might be too far away. Dalaran might return, but also might be avoided for fear of it being too blatant. Wyrmrest isnt terribly big. Icecrown Citadel is too Scourge/DK themed. And Ulduar is likely a hostile hub.
A rebuilt Argent Crusade city where the Argent Vanguard is now is the right size, in the right area, can be as bland or as specific as you want, and it can reuse Hallowsfall assets if the developers want to focus on remaking Ulduar, which I assume they will.

[allegrian]

I think we could get a gnome capital in TLT if tinkers are a thing, probably set up in the mimiron zone in Ulduar.

[Enrif]

The Argent Crusade did have the encampment in Icecrown originally, so you could just have them make up some quick excuse that most of the Argent Tournament grounds are too unstable for anything, and that their main base of operations in Northrend post-SL pre-patch is further south.
The Argent Crusade likely have a presence in Northrend given the feral Scourge that need containing, and why not have a nice city to go alongside it as well. I doubt the non-combat oriented members of the Crusade are happy sharing Acherus with the DKs, or being cooped up all the way back in the Borean Tundra for the faction hubs.

The Horde and Alliance bases on each side of Northrend might be too far away. Dalaran might return, but also might be avoided for fear of it being too blatant. Wyrmrest isnt terribly big. Icecrown Citadel is too Scourge/DK themed. And Ulduar is likely a hostile hub.
A rebuilt Argent Crusade city where the Argent Vanguard is now is the right size, in the right area, can be as bland or as specific as you want, and it can reuse Hallowsfall assets if the developers want to focus on remaking Ulduar, which I assume they will.

Why not New Hearthglen? It is already a city. The argent crusade could took up the building and give them a new coat of paint. It would also give them a convenient access point to the sea (compared to crystal song or icecrown).

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I think we could get a gnome capital in TLT if tinkers are a thing, probably set up in the mimiron zone in Ulduar.

I don't think Ulduar would be the hub. The assumption right now is that the titans are the enemies, so having a hub in their stronghold wouldn't work out.

[Foolicious]

Wasn't that created by a few drops of the WoE?

It is. Just like the well atop hyjal. Only difference is that its also powered by the core of a naaru since tbc and is now light/arcane water.

The sunwell also isn't that old. While it maybe can be used as a portal as we have seen with the well of eternity or the sunwell itself, there is no way for some architecture or machines left behind by the titans specifically for that purpose.

[Makorus]

I still think the "We ally with Iridikron" angle is quite interesting, so having his lair be the Boralus-type (part hub/part actual zone) hub would be cool.

[Ersula]

The question: why would the argent crusade relocate to crystal song? The tournament grounds could have been a great place to expand into a city. While crystal song could be the way to the below Northrend zones.

Pretty sure everyone bringing up Scarlet Crusade in Northrend are forgetting the remnant up there got destroyed in the Priest Order Hall questline in Legion.

True, and it felt weird. Even so, they were inside a specific raid room. Seeing them small on Azeroth would feel strange imo.

You know what feels weird in WoW? Literally everything. It's a fantasy setting. Titans' physical form is just an extension of their will & can be any size.

[Raetary]

While it feels fairly obvious how they will expand QT in Midnight, I think there will be some big curve balls for Northrend to spice it up. A lot of the continent is flat and sparse (Tundra, Dragonblight) so I expect some cata-level shakeups. Maybe Dragonblight gets caved in.

Well, we know Icecrown is melting, so that alone should cause some major environmental changes across the continent.

Icecrown laid bare, revealing whatever is frozen beneath the permafrost.
More water pouring into Crystalsong.
Maybe Sholazar gets a dam and aquedact system to stop it from getting flooded from the east.
The titans would probably start cleaning up in Storm Peaks.

Dragonblight getting caved in would make a lot of sense with Iridikron around and the zone having all those tunnels underneath it since Dragon Soul.
Could involve the Nerubians too.

Grizzly Hills and Howling Fjord would likely stay mostly the same.

Without the scourge and the plague, Zul'Drak could probably start to heal.
Maybe a new Loa sets up base and is revitalizing the zone.

Borean Tundra could get some climate shake up, or maybe be influenced by Sholazar, or have some titan shenanigan in Coldarra causing some major leylines to pop up and cause havoc.

[Sondrelk]

Why not New Hearthglen? It is already a city. The argent crusade could took up the building and give them a new coat of paint. It would also give them a convenient access point to the sea (compared to crystal song or icecrown).

Certainly possible. Also places like Wintergarde keep at least for Alliance that could work as well.
Might just be a gut feel that the Argent Vanguard area is ideal for a faction agnostic main hub due to it's central position in Northrend, and being positioned right next to Crystalsong forest which was criminally underused in WotLK.

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Well, we know Icecrown is melting, so that alone should cause some major environmental changes across the continent.

Icecrown laid bare, revealing whatever is frozen beneath the permafrost.
More water pouring into Crystalsong.
Maybe Sholazar gets a dam and aquedact system to stop it from getting flooded from the east.
The titans would probably start cleaning up in Storm Peaks.

Dragonblight getting caved in would make a lot of sense with Iridikron around and the zone having all those tunnels underneath it since Dragon Soul.
Could involve the Nerubians too.

Grizzly Hills and Howling Fjord would likely stay mostly the same.

Without the scourge and the plague, Zul'Drak could probably start to heal.
Maybe a new Loa sets up base and is revitalizing the zone.

Borean Tundra could get some climate shake up, or maybe be influenced by Sholazar, or have some titan shenanigan in Coldarra causing some major leylines to pop up and cause havoc.

There was a fake map I quite liked back in the pre-SL speculation days that had stuff like this. Including collapsing Crystalsong into a Nerubian zone. Flooding Wintergrasp to make a lake. Partial melting of Icecrown Glacier. And possibly a bit drastic, but removing most of Zul'drak due to it collapsing into the sea, leaving just Gundrak as an island off the coast.
Quite interesting I thought, so I would love to see stuff like that properly in-game.

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I still think the "We ally with Iridikron" angle is quite interesting, so having his lair be the Boralus-type (part hub/part actual zone) hub would be cool.

It's fun as a hypothetical, though I would smell an impending betrayal a mile away, which might make the choice of hub a bit awkward if they want Iridikron to be a villain later.

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Pretty sure everyone bringing up Scarlet Crusade in Northrend are forgetting the remnant up there got destroyed in the Priest Order Hall questline in Legion.

The Scarlet Crusade remnants have been decisively crushed at least three times in WoW. I don't think another one would go amiss. Even more so if they nudge us even closer towards Avaloren.

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On a separate note. We are getting closer to reaching page 3333 for the 3rd time. Surely there is no other explanation than being a sure sign of Alpha approaching. Time to get those page numbers up to complete the ritual.

[Enrif]

Pretty sure everyone bringing up Scarlet Crusade in Northrend are forgetting the remnant up there got destroyed in the Priest Order Hall questline in Legion.

Well, looking up new hearthglen for another comment i saw this on the wiki page:
Following the war against the Jailer, the brothers Bronzebeard reported that there are still enough crusaders around to continue their twisted crusade against anyone they think an enemy.

Seems the scarlet crusade is still going.
Which makes me think: The Arathi in TWW have a strong "scarlet crusade" vibe. They have holy fire as their belief, and fire, a flame, is the crest of the scarlet crusade. As strange as it sounds, perhaps the scarlets are frenemies in TLL? I mean, we don't even know were we will stand with the arathi in the end.

[Raetary]

Pretty sure everyone bringing up Scarlet Crusade in Northrend are forgetting the remnant up there got destroyed in the Priest Order Hall questline in Legion.

That means absolutely nothing.

The scarlets get gutted every other expansion, yet they keep popping up out of nowhere.

[PenguinChan]

Well, we know Icecrown is melting, so that alone should cause some major environmental changes across the continent.

Icecrown laid bare, revealing whatever is frozen beneath the permafrost.
More water pouring into Crystalsong.
Maybe Sholazar gets a dam and aquedact system to stop it from getting flooded from the east.
The titans would probably start cleaning up in Storm Peaks.

Dragonblight getting caved in would make a lot of sense with Iridikron around and the zone having all those tunnels underneath it since Dragon Soul.
Could involve the Nerubians too.

Grizzly Hills and Howling Fjord would likely stay mostly the same.

Without the scourge and the plague, Zul'Drak could probably start to heal.
Maybe a new Loa sets up base and is revitalizing the zone.

Borean Tundra could get some climate shake up, or maybe be influenced by Sholazar, or have some titan shenanigan in Coldarra causing some major leylines to pop up and cause havoc.

So what you’re saying is more troll dungeon remakes? Great idea!! But also wtf I didn’t know icecrown was melting lol. That’s really cool if it’s gonna be a redone zone.

[Makabreska]

Unlikely, but what if Icecrown Citadell will be the playerhub for TLL?

Would prolly not like it. This place is permanently tied to Arthas and LKs, and their story is donezo. Plus, the general aesthetics of dark blue and bones would not fit.

[Enrif]

Certainly possible. Also places like Wintergarde keep at least for Alliance that could work as well.
Might just be a gut feel that the Argent Vanguard area is ideal for a faction agnostic main hub due to it's central position in Northrend, and being positioned right next to Crystalsong forest which was criminally underused in WotLK.

I took up the map of northrend and marked a few zones i think will merge to fit the 4 zone scheme. See here if interested: https://i.imgur.com/MKkn7MI.jpg

The argent Vanguard would be in the area i see as the "titan zone of influnce". Formerly Ulduar, Stormpeaks and Zul'Drak. It doesn't sit right with me to have the hub so close to the "enemy" zone. And after i saw this map, i don't even think the argent tournamet grounds would be fitting, as it is quite close to Ulduar.

But this map got me a good idea of places that could fit:
Ymirheim/Jotunheim/Uthgard Keep - if the Vrykul become allies.
Icecrown Citadel - as mentioned
Moa'Ki Harbour - If the Tuskar will be the hosts and build up the place, a lot
Wintergrasp - This is a stange call, but it could work?
Icemist Village - rebuild?
New Hearthglenn - conquered from the scarlets/allied with the scarlets?
Azjol-Nerub - Why not?
Wyrmrest Temple - Obvious choice, but.. could feel like a lesser Valdrakken.

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Would prolly not like it. This place is permanently tied to Arthas and LKs, and their story is donezo. Plus, the general aesthetics of dark blue and bones would not fit.

If it stays as it is, yes. But i can easily see a lot of changes made to the place. Remember that Zovaal activated the engines below ICC, which could have changed the place, a lot.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Pretty sure everyone bringing up Scarlet Crusade in Northrend are forgetting the remnant up there got destroyed in the Priest Order Hall questline in Legion.

Exploring Northrend mentions that they are still up and running up there.

[Murlocos]

Scarlets are bigger joke content than anything to do with gnomes or goblins at this point. If they come back again they should be clever about it and give them untextured buildings and armor as metacommentary on them only being there because they could not come up with anything else.

[Nymrohd]

Scarlets are bigger joke content than anything to do with gnomes or goblins at this point. If they come back again they should be clever about it and give them untextured buildings and armor as metacommentary on them only being there because they could not come up with anything else.

Scarlets are about to be replaced by the Arathi zealots in Hallowfall anyway. They will probably find a way to fold them in.

[allegrian]

Exploring Northrend mentions that they are still up and running up there.

Exploring northrend and the others have 0 depth and lore knowledge, it is written by some rando writer who takes notes while flying around the zone of the book ingame and not taking into account that what the writer sees is the frozen in time version of the continent.

[Murlocos]

Scarlets are about to be replaced by the Arathi zealots in Hallowfall anyway. They will probably find a way to fold them in.

I don't think we can say anything for sure about how that storyline is going to play out. I imagine it's going to be helping the good Arathi fight the really zealous ones, or maybe they're succumbing to the void, but I doubt they're going to assume the mantle of an eternally recurring villain group that inexplicably reforms only to be instantly wiped out time and time again. Who knows if they'll even show up after TWW.

[Makorus]

Scarlets are bigger joke content than anything to do with gnomes or goblins at this point. If they come back again they should be clever about it and give them untextured buildings and armor as metacommentary on them only being there because they could not come up with anything else.

People genuinely wanting the Scarlet Crusade, if not clamoring for it is mind-boggling.

Just have generic bandits instead. At least generic bandits make sense to still be around.

[Nibelheimy]

If Iridikron does kill all Titans bar one in the intro after we summon them to Azeroth for help, us utilising a flying part of Ulduar would be very cool. Odin moves his part back in , we move out.