Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Makorus]

How will LFR work during DF's season 4? Will we get LFR for a different raid each week?

One of them is gonna be awakened at a time. Vault -> Aberrus -> Amirdrassil

[Kiivar86]

How will LFR work during DF's season 4? Will we get LFR for a different raid each week?

I imagine it'll be like how it was for the fated season in Shadowlands. As I recall, all will be queueable as normal but the current "fated" one will be the general focus for everyone.

[Makorus]

I mean, it's as big of an issue as you make it. "Oh, you're playing arms?" is an innocent question, and "Hey, can I have innerv" may simply mean that they didn't know the cat doesn't have it. If you read more into it, than you're probably... reading too much. Besides, it's your chance to prove them wrong and show that arms, too, can do the job.

Every player who succumbs to the meta is at fault that the meta is so widespread. More often than not, the "wrong spec" will be played by a new player (who may not even know what the meta is), and since they are probably guaranteed to do worse, it enforces the idea of "bad specs" (even though the very same spec would do well in proper hands - probably better than most meta specs in the wrong hands).

Long story short, every time you change your spec, talents or covenant just because some asshole is snarky about, you reinforce the meta slavery.

The thing with playing Meta is also the fact that unless you are equally good at both specs, it doesnt really matter, especially with the class balance being as good as it is right now.

[allegrian]

I've said my piece on hero talents before, so I'll just say that the new push for battlegrounds as the mainstay of rated PvP makes me hope they reevaluate their stance of PvP optics being a primary roadblock against more variety in class cosmetic options. The impact of spell recognition is a lot less pronounced in an 8v8 objective game than it is in a 3v3 one-life deathmatch.

At this day and age is a bit silly to think that class silhouette or spell visuals matter that much in pvp when most of the work is done by addons and raid frames/nameplates showing all the buffs, cooldowns and so on. you only have to see the actual game visuals for stuff like the ice ring from mages, push ring from monks or ice orbs.

[huth]

since when? Naaru are not titan keepers.

Besides, we know that elune is above naaru in hierarchy. calling her a naaru isn't wrong until we know her actual status. for all she could be a light lord (as opposed to the void lords). Naaru is still a good way to call it until proven what she is.

I think Lahis meant "equivalent to". Elune is tied to Life, not Light, though, so no, she couldn't. That option went out the window with Shadowlands.

[Rageonit]

The thing with playing Meta is also the fact that unless you are equally good at both specs, it doesnt really matter, especially with the class balance being as good as it is right now.

Don't know about all the classes, but I have a very good friend who, since BFA, refuses to play anything else than Destro and every season pushes easily above +20. I, on the other hand, play mostly healers, which is a bit different game, but I also never had problems pushing high on non-meta classes. The only noticeable difference is getting invites faster in dung finder if you play a meta class.

[Makorus]

Don't know about all the classes, but I have a very good friend who, since BFA, refuses to play anything else than Destro and every season pushes easily above +20. I, on the other hand, play mostly healers, which is a bit different game, but I also never had problems pushing high on non-meta classes. The only noticeable difference is getting invites faster in dung finder if you play a meta class.

My friend plays BM every single tier, and it's never been issue. He is borderline perfect at playing BM, so even switching to MM would just not be worth it because a spec you perfected would (ideally, if the class balance was alright) still outperform a spec that is numerically better. But people don't realise that, switch to a spec that's "better" and do worse, because cold, hard facts say it's better without realizing that they are not a sim and will never be as good at the rotation as one.

[Enrif]

I think Lahis meant "equivalent to". Elune is tied to Life, not Light, though, so no, she couldn't. That option went out the window with Shadowlands.

Yeah i think thats what was meant. Regardless, we don't know what elune really is. She is proved to be tied to naaru, she has a very dark side shown in the night warrior, which could be just a cosmic void power thing. These connections really point her to being a force similar to a naaru. Her connection to life is barely there. At best she is a protector of life, but that doesn't make her a "cosmic life" being.

[Hellspawn]

Yeah i think thats what was meant. Regardless, we don't know what elune really is. She is proved to be tied to naaru, she has a very dark side shown in the night warrior, which could be just a cosmic void power thing. These connections really point her to being a force similar to a naaru. Her connection to life is barely there. At best she is a protector of life, but that doesn't make her a "cosmic life" being.

We know that Elune is life related, she is the sister of the Winter Queen. In what way she is light related and how is less known.

[Lahis]

since when? Naaru are not titan keepers.

Besides, we know that elune is above naaru in hierarchy. calling her a naaru isn't wrong until we know her actual status. for all she could be a light lord (as opposed to the void lords). Naaru is still a good way to call it until proven what she is.

Naaru are Light's powerful agents on the mortal realm and beyond, but they are not the Light Pantheon. That makes them roughly equivalent to Titan Keepers in the hierarchy.

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You mean titans. The keepers work for the Titans. The cosmology used a picture of Xe'ra & Norgannon to represent the sphere of light & order respectively.

Though I would point out there is a lot of overlap between light & life. Or say, apparently the Eternal Ones are also Titans, or at least The Primus is.

Naaru are not the Pantheon of Light. They're Light's highest servants and agents on mortal realm. That puts them equivalent to Titan Keepers on the cosmology hierarchy.

[Enrif]

We know that Elune is life related, she is the sister of the Winter Queen. In what way she is light related and how is less known.

We know that the Winter Queen is a construct out of Zereth Mortis (just like the other eternals). So she and Elune are not Sisters in that sense. More like "metaphorical sisters" because they have certain connections. For all we know, Elune could be from the Light Pantheon, but be about life, like the Winter Queen is from the Death Pantheon, but also about life, like Eonar is from the Order Pantheon, but also about Life. There are no proven statements that Elune is of the Life Pantheon.

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Naaru are Light's powerful agents on the mortal realm and beyond, but they are not the Light Pantheon. That makes them roughly equivalent to Titan Keepers in the hierarchy.

Your statement made it sound that you said naaru are titans. And sure, Naaru and Prime Naaru we saw might be similar to titan keeper in importance/power. Doesn't change the idea that Elune might be naaru connected. Elune might be to Naaru, what Eonar is to Freya. A being of higher hierarchy. But we don't have a name for that. So, callind her a naaru is just as viable until we know. I don't care if she is a Supreme Naaru, Light God, Holy Lord or whatever. But the connection to the naaru is there.

[Hitei]

We know that the Winter Queen is a construct out of Zereth Mortis (just like the other eternals). So she and Elune are not Sisters in that sense. More like "metaphorical sisters" because they have certain connections. For all we know, Elune could be from the Light Pantheon, but be about life, like the Winter Queen is from the Death Pantheon, but also about life, like Eonar is from the Order Pantheon, but also about Life. There are no proven statements that Elune is of the Life Pantheon.

The Primus calls her the Winter Queen's "counterpart in the realms of Life".

[Cheezits]

So will Undermine be tied to the plot or will it be a completely self contained patch and story?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

We know that Elune is life related, she is the sister of the Winter Queen. In what way she is light related and how is less known.

There a lot more pointing to her being light related then life related as all we have for life is that she’s “sister” to a robot while we have her tear being used on a prime Narru, Velan saying her power is like that of a Narru, and of course the priest of the moon getting there power from her.

[Fahrad Wagner]

So will Undermine be tied to the plot or will it be a completely self contained patch and story?

Both probably, a self-contained story + some sort of relevance to the plot to justify why we're heading there

[Enrif]

The Primus calls her the Winter Queen's "counterpart in the realms of Life".

Had to look it up. That is correct. This just makes it more strange. Why does elune have a connection to naaru, while by the Primus' word being a being of the realm of life? We don't know what he means with realm of life. Does he mean reality, where the living actually live and die, and thus are part of the great cycle. Or does he mean an actual lifelands mirror to the shadowlands? Elune is so frustrating... i wish blizz would finally spill the beans on her.

[Hitei]

There a lot more pointing to her being light related then life related as all we have for life is that she’s “sister” to a robot while we have her tear being used on a prime Narru, Velan saying her power is like that of a Narru, and of course the priest of the moon getting there power from her.

Elune's power typically manifests as astral magic (see: Tyrande, druids) which is a blend of nature and arcane magic. Not as light magic.

Had to look it up. That is correct. This just makes it more strange. Why does elune have a connection to naaru, while by the Primus' word being a being of the realm of life? We don't know what he means with realm of life. Does he mean reality, where the living actually live and die, and thus are part of the great cycle. Or does he mean an actual lifelands mirror to the shadowlands? Elune is so frustrating... i wish blizz would finally spill the beans on her.

She probably just interacts frequently with the other pantheons. We know she used to hang out with Eonar. She probably has just also made contact with Light's pantheon and perhaps worked with them for some things, like making the Naaru, in the same way that she gave Eonar gifts to help spread Life.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Had to look it up. That is correct. This just makes it more strange. Why does elune have a connection to naaru, while by the Primus' word being a being of the realm of life? We don't know what he means with realm of life. Does he mean reality, where the living actually live and die, and thus are part of the great cycle. Or does he mean an actual lifelands mirror to the shadowlands? Elune is so frustrating... i wish blizz would finally spill the beans on her.

A thing to keep in mind is that currently live began in the great dark by shards of light flying through it right after the Big Bang as per chronicles so her being the “life” counter part doesn’t stop her from being light related as life came from light.

[Enrif]

A thing to keep in mind is that currently live began in the great dark by shards of light flying through it right after the Big Bang as per chronicles so her being the “life” counter part doesn’t stop her from being light related as life came from light.

That is my thinking currently. She is a light being. But light by it's nature is life giving. So i think she is the winter queens counterpart in reality. But she is not a life pantheon creature, but a light one that protects life, not unlike Eonar.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Elune's power typically manifests as astral magic (see: Tyrande, druids) which is a blend of nature and arcane magic. Not as light magic.

Gameplay wise sure but lore wise we have Velan flat out saying there power is like a Narru and there order as always been represented as priest with even them having a Elune related spell in classic.

Lore wise it’s light for now.