Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Zardas]

I already wrote to you that Chris just wants to protect Golden from hatred. He defended her when Before the Storm was published and received a lot of hate. He literally said, "I know what you'll see, this sucks, don't be upset, I'll do better next time."

Crazy how people can't admit being wrong and resort to invented stuff when the truth is right in front of their eyes.

[Raetary]

No job lasts untill retirement, especially on the games industry. Quarterly layoffs makes sure of that.

I know, that's why i pointed out the naivety.

She just was around for so long that it feels weird not to her involved anymore.

[Lahis]

Perhaps the TWW cinematic was the last straw of Microsoft patience. This is a big budget cinematic that flopped due to a bad script. And the handwriting was clearly Christie Golden, Anduin and Orc talk about their feelings for a long time and without action. Chris Metzen took responsibility for this cinematic so that people don't write hate posts for Christie Golden like they did with Before the Storm.

Blizzard fired her for wasting money on unpopular things

Bad script? TWW cinematic has great script and amazing acting. Just because you lack the emotional maturity to understand anything beyond "Thing goes BOOM" doesn't mean it is bad script.

[Makorus]

Why are people still arguing with him jfc

[Super Dickmann]

BTS is a war crime, her being fired for it is compensation enough for it being created in the first place.

[Cherry123]

so your 'logic' for believing she wrote it is strictly out of contrarianism? "they said it therefore i dont believe it", is extremely poor logic. And it's not like this is the first time Metzen wrote something emotional either. If a single cinematic so deeply shakes your view of him as a writer, then perhaps you were never really that big of a fan of his to begin with

How to say! I have been involved in political debates for a long time. But the worst thing I took part in was ship wars.

In them I learned about people's tastes, when they are hypocrites and lies.

I met people decades later, they argued about new projects, about new characters. But their tastes always remain the same; they love a certain archetype and hate the opposite one.

It's the same with Metzen. He's a guy for whom the "epic moment" is the most important thing. He won't spend 100% of his intro cinematic screen time talking about feelings between two men. He knows that the opening cinematic is the face of the expansion and an important moment for hype.

[doledippers]

It's the same with Metzen. He's a guy for whom the "epic moment" is the most important thing. He won't spend 100% of his intro cinematic screen time talking about feelings between two men. He knows that the opening cinematic is the face of the expansion and an important moment for hype.

im glad your armchair psychology has given you the peace of mind that your beloved Metzen could never write something you dont like, but reality doesn't really care about that. Metzen literally wrote a warcraft-themed children's book to teach lessons on bullying and friendship, hardly the one dimensional writer you claim he is.

in fact, here's him doing a storytime reading of that children's book https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdPYSq9CViI

unless you wanna claim that this is actually Christie Golden in a Metzen skin suit...

[Cherry123]

im glad your armchair psychology has given you the peace of mind that your beloved Metzen could never write something you dont like, but reality doesn't really care about that. Metzen literally wrote a warcraft-themed children's book to teach lessons on bullying and friendship, hardly the one dimensional writer you claim he is.

in fact, here's him doing a storytime reading of that children's book https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdPYSq9CViI

unless you wanna claim that this is actually Christie Golden in a Metzen skin suit...

Writes what I like? hell no... he's one of those people who creates self-insertion.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

unless you wanna claim that this is actually Christie Golden in a Metzen skin suit...

“Would you write Anduin being soft? I’d write Anduin being soft” saying golden before dancing in her Metzen suit.

[doledippers]

“Would you write Anduin being soft? I’d write Anduin being soft” saying golden before dancing in her Metzen suit.

Vince McMahon-esque mask off reveal at blizzcon 2025 where Golden pulls off her Metzen mask

[Jastall]

BTS is a war crime, her being fired for it is compensation enough for it being created in the first place.

Its pointlessness is my biggest confusion TBH. The events of the book are hardly referenced again, its lore regarding especially the Forsaken isn't grounded in any other material and BFA as written doesn't need the Gathering to happen nor does it even acknowledge it as a factor in faction tensions. Calia being killed and rezzed is pretty much the only thing that was carried forward at all.

[Lady Atia]

Its pointlessness is my biggest confusion TBH. The events of the book are hardly referenced again, its lore regarding especially the Forsaken isn't grounded in any other material and BFA as written doesn't need the Gathering to happen nor does it even acknowledge it as a factor in faction tensions. Calia being killed and rezzed is pretty much the only thing that was carried forward at all.

Well, they literally created a new Desolate Council in Shadowlands, which never appeared outside of that book before.

[Super Dickmann]

Its pointlessness is my biggest confusion TBH. The events of the book are hardly referenced again, its lore regarding especially the Forsaken isn't grounded in any other material and BFA as written doesn't need the Gathering to happen nor does it even acknowledge it as a factor in faction tensions. Calia being killed and rezzed is pretty much the only thing that was carried forward at all.

It's written as an assassination of Sylvanas and the Forsaken. But it obviously went through rewrites (two book blurb changes, each gradually going all the more so in the demonization direction) and the route it went for both her and the race had no actual relation to BFA's route. After a book about how the Forsaken can't associate with Lordaeron and are part of a hitherto unmentioned put upon revisionist history, the expansion starts with Sylvanas's historic claim to Lordaeron Keep and an evacuation. An expansion about her hidden motive kicks off with an internal view about how she has none. Golden herself backtracks heavily and shows she can write Forsaken in Sylvanas (the book) and the route most consistent with it, the end of BFA where Calia returns to guide the sadsack Forsaken is retconned out immediately come SL's end patch. You can tell the way a direction was desired - the elimination of the Forsaken and Sylvanas in lieu of the new martyr undead and how outcry rewrote it.

[Merryck]

Damn, losing job and family on the same day.

Pretty surprised that she got laid off.
I always imagined she'd be around until retirement. (as naive as that is).

Wish her all the best.

How did she lose her family? Unless you're referring to the "blizzard family"

[milkmustache]

How did she lose her family? Unless you're referring to the "blizzard family"

Her twitter post refers to her nephew dying of cancer the same day she was laid off.

[Nymrohd]

It's written as an assassination of Sylvanas and the Forsaken. But it obviously went through rewrites (two book blurb changes, each gradually going all the more so in the demonization direction) and the route it went for both her and the race had no actual relation to BFA's route. After a book about how the Forsaken can't associate with Lordaeron and are part of a hitherto unmentioned put upon revisionist history, the expansion starts with Sylvanas's historic claim to Lordaeron Keep and an evacuation. An expansion about her hidden motive kicks off with an internal view about how she has none. Golden herself backtracks heavily and shows she can write Forsaken in Sylvanas (the book) and the route most consistent with it, the end of BFA where Calia returns to guide the sadsack Forsaken is retconned out immediately come SL's end patch. You can tell the way a direction was desired - the elimination of the Forsaken and Sylvanas in lieu of the new martyr undead and how outcry rewrote it.

I think it is clear how huge the writing direction change was between BTS and Sylvanas. The rewrites probably meant that Golden just did not go hard enough the first time or even the second time for what they were trying to do. I don't know how much I'd blame her given that.

Regardless, I knew Golden before I knew Warcraft from the Ravenloft books and she was better than average for a D&D writer (which isn't saying much, the bar is low). I think her work in Warcraft was mostly good (again the bar is low). Sad that she had to go through a family tragedy and unemployment at the same time but I am sure she has the credentials to bounce back as a writer. I don't really think she had much creative control in WoW anyway; she definitely contributed and had an opinion but I doubt she had the final say for events, just for how characters were depicted in her work. I think WoW is going forward with a new character roster anyway.

[Jastall]

It's written as an assassination of Sylvanas and the Forsaken. But it obviously went through rewrites (two book blurb changes, each gradually going all the more so in the demonization direction) and the route it went for both her and the race had no actual relation to BFA's route. After a book about how the Forsaken can't associate with Lordaeron and are part of a hitherto unmentioned put upon revisionist history, the expansion starts with Sylvanas's historic claim to Lordaeron Keep and an evacuation. An expansion about her hidden motive kicks off with an internal view about how she has none. Golden herself backtracks heavily and shows she can write Forsaken in Sylvanas (the book) and the route most consistent with it, the end of BFA where Calia returns to guide the sadsack Forsaken is retconned out immediately come SL's end patch. You can tell the way a direction was desired - the elimination of the Forsaken and Sylvanas in lieu of the new martyr undead and how outcry rewrote it.

Sylvanas the book is one giant retcon machine so that makes sense, yeah. And outcry changed BFA's story time and again, see Darkshore where Nathanos wasn't easily soloing Tyrande while cackling anymore, or just the existence of the totally nonsensical loyalist option stapled at the last second.

[Raetary]

How did she lose her family? Unless you're referring to the "blizzard family"

No i'm refering to her literal family, she lost her nephew to cancer.

She laments it in the second line of her letter...

[Super Dickmann]

\ I don't really think she had much creative control in WoW anyway; she definitely contributed and had an opinion but I doubt she had the final say for events, just for how characters were depicted in her work. I think WoW is going forward with a new character roster anyway.

Golden is an excellent (video game tie-in) character writer. She's a terrible world builder. She also has set character preferences that trump either of the above. She is both behind the best Garrosh portrayal except for the WoD tie-in, in Shattering and the worst one in Tides of War. She's also behind both the worst Forsaken portrayal to the point of hamstringing the race in BTS and one of the best chapters written on it in Sylvanas and Nathanos's therapy session and her talks with Putress in Sylvanas. She's definitely down for hire, which is why she never deserves the bulk of the blame with any story route, but at least where Jaina and Anduin are concerned she has been a net negative in all fields.

- - - Updated - - -

Sylvanas the book is one giant retcon machine so that makes sense, yeah. And outcry changed BFA's story time and again, see Darkshore where Nathanos wasn't easily soloing Tyrande while cackling anymore, or just the existence of the totally nonsensical loyalist option stapled at the last second.

Sure, it is a retcon over a retcon, it's essentially a big repair exercise over initial mistakes made. Outcry over BFA resulted in making the intended story worse by introducing the nonsensical loyalist route which never tied in with anything, but the intended story route was so wretched that the addition was well worth it solely to degrade and destroy that story direction.

[Polybius]

How to say! I have been involved in political debates for a long time. But the worst thing I took part in was ship wars.

In them I learned about people's tastes, when they are hypocrites and lies.

I met people decades later, they argued about new projects, about new characters. But their tastes always remain the same; they love a certain archetype and hate the opposite one.

It's the same with Metzen. He's a guy for whom the "epic moment" is the most important thing. He won't spend 100% of his intro cinematic screen time talking about feelings between two men. He knows that the opening cinematic is the face of the expansion and an important moment for hype.

Metzen had a kid. He had his own character development for which you unaccounted for. People’s tastes evolve.