Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Ersula]

Yeah, just like Zandalar and Kul Tiras were patch zones in Cataclysm, right?

So now you're arguing that Zandalar & Kul Tiras had to be expansion settings, but Argus & the Emerald Dream, which by all means should have been the size of entire planets, were obviously going to be patch zones? Hindsight is 20/20

[Samin]

I concur as well! It's been teased so much for it NOT to be in TWW - it just doesn't fit in with Mid & TLT

I think it's post world soul saga setup. Back during the 11.0 speculation period when those zone screenshots circulated and "everyone" was on the Avaloren train, people correctly pointed out that this whole thing only started to be directly mentioned in 10.2 and this kind of teasing/foreshadowing usually happens more than one expansion in advance.

[Cheezits]

Have the naaru ever teleported things before? I time there's something suspicious with how the Arathi got ported down into Hallowsfall.

[Varodoc]

How long do you think it will take the average user here to understand that Blizzard doesn't have a plan or a logic, they only have arbitrary made-up rules of what constitutes a "cool" and varied enough setting for an expansion?

Kul Tiras, a single Human kingdom smaller than even Gilneas, served as an entire expansion setting. Argus, a whole planet, was just a patch setting.

Similarly, an asspulled, April Fools' joke like Pandaria served as an expansion setting. Meanwhile, Nazjatar and Ny'alotha, long-awaited realms of darkness and despair from many whispers throughout the years, were just a patch setting.

Blizzard doesn't have any plan or logic, they only care if a continent is varied and fresh enough to be tolerable for an entire expansion. Argus, Nazjatar, and Ny'alotha didn't have enough variety to be tolerable for two entire years, while Kul Tiras and Pandaria did.

I can see Avaloren serving as an expansion setting, but only if there are other cultures in it besides the dominant Arathor Empire. Otherwise, Patch content.

[Makabreska]

How long do you think it will take the average user here to understand that Blizzard doesn't have a plan or a logic, they only have arbitrary made-up rules of what constitutes a "cool" and varied enough setting for an expansion?

"We present you the World Soul Saga, a story that will span multiple expansions" *proceeds to explain where each expansion will take us*, and from the latest interviews "We already know how it will all end", but "Blizzard doesn't have a plan or a logic".

Whats with these tragic takes?

[huth]

I am pretty sure that the ingame rotating view of the planet simply has massive clouds between the continents.

Either way i wouldn't rely on it for future lore. It only showed places already known at the time, same as the Ulduar globes.

[Nightshade711]

"We present you the World Soul Saga, a story that will span multiple expansions" *proceeds to explain where each expansion will take us*, and from the latest interviews "We already know how it will all end", but "Blizzard doesn't have a plan or a logic".

Whats with these tragic takes?

Even before that blizzard had stated before that they plan for several expansions in advance.
The only thing that makes this time different is that they announced said expansions this time.

[Noirebene]

I think it's shaping up as a post Worldsoul saga : a totally new place on Azeroth albeit with familiars faces. The other side of Azeroth, Avaloren, the Storming Sea...

So far we have :
- A Light-force, half-elves arathi empire, maybe in touch OR who are the "heretics" of the Wreckage Analysis report
- Maybe throw some new titan aesthetic lore and face with Innaria and those who survive The Last Titan
- Green dragon Erinethria and her brood that could serve as new dragon aesthetic
- Nightsquall and his crew
- Maybe throw some elemental stuff with the storm also

There's much interesting place left after The Last Titan : sure they could do some Kalimdor revamp or finish the Eastern kingdoms. Maybe K'aresh as well but it never goes well when we leave Azeroth.

Avaloren could serve as a proper extension setting with a good amount of preparation and foreshadowing and not feel like out of nowhere as Pandaria or the Shadowlands did for some.

[huth]

So now you're arguing that Zandalar & Kul Tiras had to be expansion settings, but Argus & the Emerald Dream, which by all means should have been the size of entire planets, were obviously going to be patch zones? Hindsight is 20/20

The problem with the latter is that we already knew they were largely the same all over. Zandalar and Kul Tiras had room to have varied enviroments. Argus and the Emerald Dream very explicitly don't.

About the only thing we actually know for certain about Avaloren is that it exists. They can go hog on that.

[Makabreska]

Emerald Dream and Argus would not work for me as expac "continents", because first one is a primal Azeroth and the second one is a fel wasteland with BL industry. Sure, Blizz could bend the rules and make more zones like Mac'Aree where usual scenery does not apply, but Avaloren as mysterious continent with a Light worshipping empire sounds 100 times more interesting to me.

[Ersula]

"We present you the World Soul Saga, a story that will span multiple expansions" *proceeds to explain where each expansion will take us*, and from the latest interviews "We already know how it will all end", but "Blizzard doesn't have a plan or a logic".

Whats with these tragic takes?

Varodoc has a point. If anything the writing in WoW never commits to anything. For example, we just finished a whole expansion about the Aspects getting back their "aspectral" powers, something they've been struggling with for a decade & they've never actually explained what those powers are. Its easy to write the premise of a plot, but writing a proper climax, the thing they usually struggle with, to an expansion requires committing to the plot currently going on. And the World Soul Saga seems like an excuse to never write a climax, because like Dragonflight, each expansion is just the prelude for what's coming next.

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The problem with the latter is that we already knew they were largely the same all over. Zandalar and Kul Tiras had room to have varied enviroments. Argus and the Emerald Dream very explicitly don't.

About the only thing we actually know for certain about Avaloren is that it exists. They can go hog on that.

Argus & Emerald Dream should have had varied biomes, only reason it didn't is a lack of imagination by the developers. Why does "an azeroth untouched by sapient races" just mean "lots of trees" to them? Forests aren't the only kind of natural biome.

Emerald Dream and Argus would not work for me as expac "continents", because first one is a primal Azeroth and the second one is a fel wasteland with BL industry. Sure, Blizz could bend the rules and make more zones like Mac'Aree where usual scenery does not apply, but Avaloren as mysterious continent with a Light worshipping empire sounds 100 times more interesting to me.

Every setting is boring on its own, you still need a conflict on top of it. Fyrakk massing forces to infiltrate the dream could do that. The short straw was simply reducing the Emerald Dream to "trees" and Fyrakk experimenting with the void only lasted for a moment.

[Makabreska]

Varodoc has a point. If anything the writing in WoW never commits to anything. For example, we just finished a whole expansion about the Aspects getting back their "aspectral" powers, something they've been struggling with for a decade & they've never actually explained what those powers are. Its easy to write the premise of a plot, but writing a proper climax, the thing they usually struggle with, to an expansion requires committing to the plot currently going on. And the World Soul Saga seems like an excuse to never write a climax, because like Dragonflight, each expansion is just the prelude for what's coming next.

Uh, ye? That's how trilogies usually work? You do not get a final climax UNTIL you reach the end of the trilogy. Also, that's how expanions worked in general for several years. Legion ended with a big climax against BL, it didn't stop it from leading us to the BfA with the sword and azerite spilling everywhere.

And I'm pretty sure we will get some kind of the climax after first two expacs anyways, simply because why not? We tidy up things, change scenery and move to the next chapter. Just because DF ending felt weak doesn't mean it will carry over to the entire WS

[Lahis]

Am i the only one that thinks its hilarious that the arathi are stranded in a cave because the only mage they had couldn't open a portal? Isn't that the first thing you think about if you start an expedition of that significance? I hope we meet this mage and get to know him.

Their other mages died.

[Ersula]

Uh, ye? That's how trilogies usually work? You do not get a final climax UNTIL you reach the end of the trilogy. Also, that's how expanions worked in general for several years. Legion ended with a big climax against BL, it didn't stop it from leading us to the BfA with the sword and azerite spilling everywhere.

So a Trilogy is just the promise the next two expansions will have a non-ending? Like most of Wow's storytelling?

Remember how Argus was a late-stage addition to Legion? So Legion was almost another non-ending instead of being tied with Wrath for being the two expansions with a good ending.

50/50 is the best odds we get a proper ending to The Last Titan when by then they'll have revealed the following saga & be putting all their effort into hyping up 16.0 "The next saga will be good we promise"

[Lahis]

What do Kul Tiras and Zandalar have to do with Cataclysm

Zandalari trolls were main part of 4.1. content so naturally that should mean we will go to Zandalar before Cataclysm is over, right?

[Varodoc]

"We present you the World Soul Saga, a story that will span multiple expansions" *proceeds to explain where each expansion will take us*, and from the latest interviews "We already know how it will all end", but "Blizzard doesn't have a plan or a logic".

Whats with these tragic takes?

As usual, you misunderstood My point.

I was not talking about the story, I was talking about the process that goes into deciding what the expansion continent will be. Blizzard doesn't follow any rule besides rule of cool, as evidenced by the decision to make Kul Tiras an expansion setting, but not Argus, Nazjatar, or Ny'alotha.

What's funny is that you even implicitly agreed with Me here, by acknowledging that they bend rules whenever they want (as for instance when they retconned WC3 just so that the Broken Isles could be a continent with 4 main races):

Emerald Dream and Argus would not work for me as expac "continents", because first one is a primal Azeroth and the second one is a fel wasteland with BL industry. Sure, Blizz could bend the rules and make more zones like Mac'Aree where usual scenery does not apply, but Avaloren as mysterious continent with a Light worshipping empire sounds 100 times more interesting to me.

I am simply able to recognize the patterns, and see that there is no pattern at all besides rule of cool.

[Lahis]

Have the naaru ever teleported things before? I time there's something suspicious with how the Arathi got ported down into Hallowsfall.

The Naaru ships are capable of teleporting.

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Argus & Emerald Dream should have had varied biomes, only reason it didn't is a lack of imagination by the developers.

Argus had varied environments in the past. However, it has since become a Fel-fucked wasteland, removing all those variances. All that is left is black rock and green or orange lava.

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So a Trilogy is just the promise the next two expansions will have a non-ending? Like most of Wow's storytelling?

Man, didn't know New Hope and Empire Strikes back didn't have endings.

[BaumanKing]

With so many connections to the naaru, Arathi, Lothar, and the Light, it's very strange that Turalyon is completely absent from the story of this expansion, but will supposedly play a role in Midnight - an expansion that is supposed to focus on Quel'Thalas and the elves.

[Cheezits]

With so many connections to the naaru, Arathi, Lothar, and the Light, it's very strange that Turalyon is completely absent from the story of this expansion, but will supposedly play a role in Midnight - an expansion that is supposed to focus on Quel'Thalas and the elves.

They are probably pacing out his story very very slowly as he will definitely have a big part whenever Avaloren and its Emperor is involved.

[Makabreska]

With so many connections to the naaru, Arathi, Lothar, and the Light, it's very strange that Turalyon is completely absent from the story of this expansion, but will supposedly play a role in Midnight - an expansion that is supposed to focus on Quel'Thalas and the elves.

Knowing your history with the dude, you ask because you miss him, or...?