Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Hitei]

I don't think Azeroth is dead. In BfA we were apparently very successful in closing the Wounds. I think rather the last action of the Jailor is what brought in the upcoming problems. Yet, the Aspects just got their powers from Azeroth... so the messaging is rather confusing, about the world soul.

I feel like people are just doing Teldrassil again. Sylvanas was a bad guy who does bad shit and a tree her enemies live in full of civilians ends up on fire. But somehow people convinced themselves it was secretly Wrathion trying to start another war or Azshara falseflagging to get the Alliance and Horde to infight. Sometimes a spade is just a spade.

Azeroth is fine. If she were dead, there'd be nothing for the Void to claim and the Titans would no longer have a reason to come back.

[Enrif]

I feel like people are just doing Teldrassil again. Sylvanas was a bad guy who does bad shit and a tree her enemies live in full of civilians ends up on fire. But somehow people convinced themselves it was secretly Wrathion trying to start another war or Azshara falseflagging to get the Alliance and Horde to infight. Sometimes a spade is just a spade.

Azeroth is fine. If she were dead, there'd be nothing for the Void to claim and the Titans would no longer have a reason to come back.

I think azeroth is fine too. But there might be things happening. The thing is not called World Soul Saga for nothing. The question is what. One idea: Infusing the world soul with other cosmic powers. Legion brought Fel through sargerases sword, Shadowlands brought Death through the Jailors actions in the Sepulcher, Dragonflight brought Life through Bel'ameth blooming in the Emerald Dream, The War Within will bring the Light with the Crystal of Hallowfall, Midnight will bring the Void with the void invasion, and finally, The Last Titan will bring Order with the Machines of the Titans. Making Azeroth a World Soul that is in complete balance with all cosmic forces.

[Scyth]

Ive been trying to find zone flythroughs and managed to find this one. A good idea of the scope of Hallowfall. It has to be the biggest zone ever made. It looks a good bit bigger than Azure span to me. And the verticality is amazing. It should shut up people complaining about lesser expansions imo. Sure only 4 zones, but 4 zones with at least double environmental variety compared to older standard zones, and twice the size etc. Its like getting 7 or 8 zones of Legion size. Definitely not a large patch like some complained about.

Zone looks amazing, really love what they've done with it.

The crystal changing from Light to Void is a great idea too.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but seeing how hard wowhead is pushing for this harronir AR to happen and comments, i find the whole recent mindset "new races/allied races should be only neutral" pretty disappointing.

It really limits what can be added and what is culturally fitting for just horde or just for alliance.

Like ogres or mok'nathal, broken etc. probably won't be ever added and blizzard will just keep creating these new races because they can be "neutral"..

[Enrif]

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but seeing how hard wowhead is pushing for this harronir AR to happen and comments, i find the whole recent mindset "new races/allied races should be only neutral" pretty disappointing.

It really limits what can be added and what is culturally fitting for just horde or just for alliance.

Like ogres or mok'nathal, broken etc. probably won't be ever added and blizzard will just keep creating these new races because they can be "neutral"..

Why? We are certainly in a time where even current "faction locked races" could just as easily become neutral.

Tauren, Highmountain, Goblin, Blood Elves, Nightborne, Vulpera, Dwarf, Dark Iron, Gnome, Draenei, Void Elf, Mechagnome
All of these could easily be neutral, and not a lot would change. Even some of the remaining ones there is ample support to make them neutral aswell. Neutral factions like the Argent Crusade, Bloodsail Bucaneers, all the order halls, show that there is enough ground for all races to be on neutral terms, not just on Horde or Alliance.

[Zers Editor]

Only the following cutscenes (excluding the ones in the raid) remain:

11.0 Z5 - Level Up - Chapter One RTC
The player witnesses the City of Threads for the first time.
Orweyna warns the player off, telling them that they have no hope of infiltrating the city.
"If Alleria and Anduin are there, then they are lost."
Orweyna departs, leaving the player alone.
Behind them, a small spider-creature rings a bell, attracting their attention.

11.0 Z5 - Level Up - Chapter 2 [ZKR]
Zev'kall, the Ascended general of the nerubian military, berates underlings for failing to keep the prisoners who escaped.
To avoid word of this failure spreading, he executes the underlings.
Then Zev'kall leaves for Siegehold.

11.0 [AXW] Alleria and Xal at the Waterfall
With an army of nerubian soldiers closing in on them, our heroes' only hope for escape is to jump from the city's edge into the waters deep below.
Anduin and the player jump first, but Alleria hesitates when Xal'atath shows herself.
Xal'atath attempts to convince Alleria to embrace the dark path.
Alleria hesitates for a moment but quickly rejects her, escaping off the cliffside into the waters with the others.

11.0 [TFA] The Fleets Arrive
From over the horizon, ships approach.
The combined might of the Alliance and Horde navies sail into the bay and come to a stop.
Leading the armada, Jaina and Thrall stand confidently on deck.

11.0 Z5 - Max Level - Chapter 2
The player sees Queen Ansurek betraying her mother Neferess.

11.0 [EUF] Earthen Unification Finale
Merrix and Adelgonn agree to commit the earthen to the war.
Adelgonn smashes the titan console to officially break the edicts.
Celebration cuts short as klaxons ring out across the isle.
A huge titan construct rises from the sea and heads toward shore.
The titans don't take kindly to disobedience...

It seems that the level up campaign of Azj-Kahet will be about introducing the main conflict of the Nerubian Empire and rescuing Anduin/Alleria, while the max level campaign will focus on uniting the forces we've got acquainted with throughout the main story and dealing with the Empire directly.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

Why? We are certainly in a time were even current "faction locked races" could just as easily become neutral.

Tauren, Highmountain, Goblin, Blood Elves, Nightborne, Vulpera, Dwarf, Dark Iron, Gnome, Draenei, Void Elf, Mechagnome
All of these could easily be neutral, and not a lot would change. Even some of the remaining ones there is ample support to make them neutral aswell. Neutral factions like the Argent Crusade, Bloodsail Bucaneers, all the order halls, show that there is enough ground for all races to be on neutral terms, not just on Horde or Alliance.

Because like i said, culturally just there are races that fit horde more or alliance more and been in one faction as NPC's for a loong time.

Homogenizing everything and putting it whole in a blender to get the same looking milkshake kills the part of identity that this game still has.

I don't need a freakin faction war ever again, but "neutral" everything, "horde is second blue" mindset is really disappointing to see, personally.

Gameplay stuff like cross faction etc. is good for the game, but homogenization of almost everything is not.

[Enrif]

Because like i said, culturally just there are races that fit horde more or alliance more and been in one faction as NPC's for a loong time.

Homogenizing everything and putting it whole in a blender to get the same looking milkshake kills the part of identity that this game still has.

You got this backwards. If every player race would be neutral, blizzard could hammer down on each culture more easily, instead of always falling back to "generic horde" and "generic alliance" themes. Legion did this well with each of it's zones, showing nightelven, highmountain, vrykul and nightborn, BfA showed this with Kul Tiran, Zandalari, Mechagnomes. Or how about Pandaria, a real culture for a "neutral race" because it was neutral, and didn't had to allign with horde or alliance.

Horde and Alliance are the blenders. Not neutrality.

[Ochinko]

I'd rather have true freedom in picking a race / class combination with the cosmetic option of choosing alliance or horde over some touchy feely "mUh wArCrAfT".

There's plenty of war to be had and just because its no longer over half a mine in arathi and more about some void twisted abomination doesnt take away from the name of the game.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

You got this backwards. If every player race would be neutral, blizzard could hammer down on each culture more easily, instead of always falling back to "generic horde" and "generic alliance" themes. Legion did this well with each of it's zones, showing nightelven, highmountain, vrykul and nightborn, BfA showed this with Kul Tiran, Zandalari, Mechagnomes. Or how about Pandaria, a real culture for a "neutral race" because it was neutral, and didn't had to allign with horde or alliance.

Horde and Alliance are the blenders. Not neutrality.

I will have to asnwer with the same "You got this backwards" yourself.

Falling back to "generic horde" and "generic alliance" themes, is not true at all, because it's not a generic thing, when culturally based races are connected to one faction or the other, have lots of history with one or the other.

Like for example i cannot see Kul'tirans in the horde at all, based on the history, even in current state of affairs that are more peacful, that would be just homogenization fo the sake of homogenization and turning everything into one boring theme with no sense.

I just find this "everything together, everythere, neutrality only" very boring when it comes to factions/races, blizzard should go back to faction specific campaigns that have to do their own part of the story to reach the ending point eventually together to defeat big bad, like we had in the past, but without any faction wars this time.

This would also avoid the issues that were raised by many people about TWW representation of horde characters during the campaign as of now on Alpha.

[Enrif]

I will have to asnwer with the same "You got this backwards" yourself.

Falling back to "generic horde" and "generic alliance" themes, is not true at all, because it's not a generic thing, when culturally based races are connected to one faction or the other, have lots of history with one or the other.

Like for example i cannot see Kul'tirans in the horde at all, based on the history, even in current state of affairs that are more peacful, that would be just homogenization fo the sake of homogenization and turning everything into one boring theme with no sense.

I just find this "everything together, everythere, neutrality only" very boring when it comes to factions/races, blizzard should go back to faction specific campaigns that have to do their own part of the story to reach the ending point eventually together to defeat big bad, like we had in the past, but without any faction wars this time.

This would also avoid the issues that were raised by many people about TWW representation of horde characters during the campaign as of now on Alpha.

You are conflating Governments and Factions with races. Kul Tiras, as a country, might not be good with the horde. But Kul Tiran humans, like pirates, merchants, Jeb from the Dragon expeditions, why should they follow their country? Heck, we have the same here in our real world. You got americans, french, germans, russians, chinese, japanese, and so many more. Yet here we are interacting and working together. Even in a time were russia is at war with another country, a russian was send up to the ISS.

There is a reason we send the dwarven queen to a dwarven island in TWW, there is a reason the plot of Midnight is about elven unification as we went to Quel'thalas. These stories can be told for every players, because they are not faction locked, which would half the potential story to give a convoluted excuse to give the other half to the other faction. But then both factions would be left with half a story, instead of all players having a full story.
BfA is a great example of this issue. If you only play one character, you know only half of the story of BfA, as you can not see the other side.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

You are conflating Governments and Factions with races. Kul Tiras, as a country, might not be good with the horde. But Kul Tiran humans, like pirates, merchants, Jeb from the Dragon expeditions, why should they follow their country? Heck, we have the same here in our real world. You got americans, french, germans, russians, chinese, japanese, and so many more. Yet here we are interacting and working together. Even in a time were russia is at war with another country, a russian was send up to the ISS.

Damn, you really went far with IRL stuff comparisons and even bringing up Russia.

You know this is still a fantasy game with orcs and walking undead, you said about things being generic when it comes to "horde that, alliance that", but the thing you are suggesting is generic.

You want to be everything tied together and like i mentioned before a milkshake of everything together that is just distasteful, instead of having 2 different ones that taste equally good.

There are some npcs that are offshoots of kingdoms or factions, but there is still big identity of cultural case to be had and certain faction is still tied to one side or another, we don't follow single units but what makes sense and still offers a diversity when it comes to 2 playable fantasy factions, established since the very beginning.

There is a reason we send the dwarven queen to a dwarven island in TWW, there is a reason the plot of Midnight is about elven unification as we went to Quel'thalas. These stories can be told for every players, because they are not faction locked, which would half the potential story to give a convoluted excuse to give the other half to the other faction. But then both factions would be left with half a story, instead of all players having a full story.
BfA is a great example of this issue. If you only play one character, you know only half of the story of BfA, as you can not see the other side.

And here again i disagree and you are just wrong - BFA is not really a "Great example of this issue", the fact that we had different campaigns for each sides, not only gave replayability with favorite races on each faction, but in each campaign you were doing stuff with characters that belonged to the faction that you played for a long time and liked, it had 2 unique experiences instead of only one.

In TWW campaign when you play horde, you are pretty much again forced to only follow characters that you might not be attached as much, because there is only one campaign, everyone does the same thing - it's generic and an issue.

Having difference is good, homogenizing everything just to lest "every player see completely everything" just cuts the fun in half and how more expanded the story can be for each factions.

I guess we will just disagree on it and i would just prefer to lvl a new alt, so it will be my last answer for that and leave with this video that brings certain issues that some of stuff you want when it comes to homogenization and what it creates for showcasing favorite races or characters.

[Nymrohd]

So the crystal is entirely a skybox element?

[Makorus]

Horde-focus is only good if you like Orcs, simple as that.

[Dracullus]

I wonder if they are doing a long term world revamp for 14.0. We have been saying that for 8 years, but..

Revamp is happening in front of your eyes. I said multiple times that Cata styled revamp is pointless after 9.0 leveling changes and only viable way is old world returning as "new" expac continents.

Imo next Saga should have similar ratio - 1 expac in Avaloren and 2 somewhere in the old world. Not only it makes old world more relevant in lore, but also exploring new lands will be more exciting because it wont happen as often as now

[Makorus]

Revamp is happening in front of your eyes. I said multiple times that Cata styled revamp is pointless after 9.0 leveling changes and only viable way is old world returning as "new" expac continents.

Imo next Saga should have similar ratio - 1 expac in Avaloren and 2 somewhere in the old world. Not only it makes old world more relevant in lore, but also exploring new lands will be more exciting because it wont happen as often as now

Eh, it depends on how they implement Midnight. It having to adhere to old zone sizes/boundaries might put a damper on it for me.

[Nymrohd]

Horde-focus is only good if you like Orcs, simple as that.

The reality is, Horde has several very disparate themes. The blood elves and Nightborne have little in common thematically with the Forsaken who have little in common with the rest of the Horde. Meanwhile the Alliance feels much more cohesive.

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Eh, it depends on how they implement Midnight. It having to adhere to old zone sizes/boundaries might put a damper on it for me.

Does it have to?

[Makorus]

The reality is, Horde has several very disparate themes. The blood elves and Nightborne have little in common thematically with the Forsaken who have little in common with the rest of the Horde. Meanwhile the Alliance feels much more cohesive.

- - - Updated - - -



Does it have to?

I mean, it depends on how far south they go, but they can't just suddenly make zones bigger because they would still need to "connect" to the old zones.

That's why I don't like an incremental revamp. It's extremely limiting for them.

[allegrian]

The reality is, Horde has several very disparate themes. The blood elves and Nightborne have little in common thematically with the Forsaken who have little in common with the rest of the Horde. Meanwhile the Alliance feels much more cohesive.

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Does it have to?

The alliance is more cohesive but there's still variety. Night elves are different from the rest just like forsaken vs kalimdor trio, and dwarves haven't been focused for years, so theyre at last getting more story for themselves to set them as something more than humans' sidekicks

[Darkarath]

Revamp is happening in front of your eyes. I said multiple times that Cata styled revamp is pointless after 9.0 leveling changes and only viable way is old world returning as "new" expac continents.

Imo next Saga should have similar ratio - 1 expac in Avaloren and 2 somewhere in the old world. Not only it makes old world more relevant in lore, but also exploring new lands will be more exciting because it wont happen as often as now

Yeah, I agree with this. If we did not get the revamp for the 20th anniversary we are not getting it at all. At least not in a Cataclysm way. Which is fine, really. With the size of current zones, they can easily revamp all Kalimdor and all the Eastern Kingdoms in 4 expansions, maybe in 3 if we count patch zones, by grouping them together.

I wonder what zones Midnight will have and how they will implement them in the map and in the world itself, as they will be so much bigger than the rest of the continent, that it might be a weird contrast going from the old part of the continent to the new one. Think that a current expansion zone could easily have The Eversong Woods, The Ghostlands, and the Eastern Plaguelands together. Hell, Midnight could easily revamp the north part of the Eastern Kingdoms just in 12.0, while adding K'aresh or wherever we are going next in the patches. I doubt that they will do that, though, but at the same time, what zones are we getting, then? If K'aresh is coming, IMO it will clearly be the final zone of the expansion. It seems rather difficult to make just one zone from The Eversong Woods, one zone from The Ghostlands, and a new zone from the Amani part of the map? And we will be still missing one zone.