Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Varodoc]

Yeah, I agree with this. If we did not get the revamp for the 20th anniversary we are not getting it at all. At least not in a Cataclysm way. Which is fine, really. With the size of current zones, they can easily revamp all Kalimdor and all the Eastern Kingdoms in 4 expansions, maybe in 3 if we count patch zones, by grouping them together.

I wonder what zones Midnight will have and how they will implement them in the map and in the world itself, as they will be so much bigger than the rest of the continent, that it might be a weird contrast going from the old part of the continent to the new one. Think that a current expansion zone could easily have The Eversong Woods, The Ghostlands, and the Eastern Plaguelands together. Hell, Midnight could easily revamp the north part of the Eastern Kingdoms just in 12.0, while adding K'aresh or wherever we are going next in the patches. I doubt that they will do that, though, but at the same time, what zones are we getting, then? If K'aresh is coming, IMO it will clearly be the final zone of the expansion. It seems rather difficult to make just one zone from The Eversong Woods, one zone from The Ghostlands, and a new zone from the Amani part of the map? And we will be still missing one zone.

Did you forget about the Isle of Quel'Danas?

Also, there's no reason why Silvermoon can't become its own zone separated from the rural province of Eversong Woods. We have already seen urban-cityscape with endgame relevant content in Suramar and Zuldazar.

1) Eversong Woods

2) Ghostlands

3) Zul Aman

4) Silvermoon

The only people who are opposed to this are Horde players who deny the inevitability that Silvermoon will become Neutral content.

My dear Horde players, you should savour these last year of Horde Silvermoon. There might not be much time left... until all the Human and High Elf RPers arrive.

[Hitei]

Yeah, I agree with this. If we did not get the revamp for the 20th anniversary we are not getting it at all. At least not in a Cataclysm way. Which is fine, really. With the size of current zones, they can easily revamp all Kalimdor and all the Eastern Kingdoms in 4 expansions, maybe in 3 if we count patch zones, by grouping them together.

I wonder what zones Midnight will have and how they will implement them in the map and in the world itself, as they will be so much bigger than the rest of the continent, that it might be a weird contrast going from the old part of the continent to the new one. Think that a current expansion zone could easily have The Eversong Woods, The Ghostlands, and the Eastern Plaguelands together. Hell, Midnight could easily revamp the north part of the Eastern Kingdoms just in 12.0, while adding K'aresh or wherever we are going next in the patches. I doubt that they will do that, though, but at the same time, what zones are we getting, then? If K'aresh is coming, IMO it will clearly be the final zone of the expansion. It seems rather difficult to make just one zone from The Eversong Woods, one zone from The Ghostlands, and a new zone from the Amani part of the map? And we will be still missing one zone.

You guys are doing it again.

[Darkarath]

Did you forget about the Isle of Quel'Danas?

Also, there's no reason why Silvermoon can't become its own zone separated from the rural province of Eversong Woods. We have already seen urban-cityscape with endgame relevant content in Suramar and Zuldazar.

1) Eversong Woods

2) Ghostlands

3) Zul Aman

4) Silvermoon

The only people who are opposed to this are Horde players who deny the inevitability that Silvermoon will become Neutral content.

My dear Horde players, you should savour these last year of Horde Silvermoon. There might not be much time left... until all the Human and High Elf RPers arrive.

I did not forget about the Isle of Quel'Danas, which is minuscule. My guess is that it will be a part of The Eversong Woods zone. Maybe they could make it work as the 12.1 patch zone, adding several Void themed landmasses around, I guess, because the isle by itself is really small.

I also thought about the possibility of having Silvermoon as a zone by itself, similar to Suramar. But again, if Midnight has only the zones that you mentioned, there is not much variety there, right? Especially within the zones themselves.

Guess that they might add an underwater zone? Azshara has to show up for Midnight.

You guys are doing it again.

Hope never dies

[Varodoc]

I did not forget about the Isle of Quel'Danas, which is minuscule. My guess is that it will be a part of The Eversong Woods zone. Maybe they could make it work as the 12.1 patch zone, adding several Void themed landmasses around, I guess, because the isle by itself is really small.

I also thought about the possibility of having Silvermoon as a zone by itself, similar to Suramar. But again, if Midnight has only the zones that you mentioned, there is not much variety there, right? Especially within the zones themselves.

Guess that they might add an underwater zone? Azshara has to show up for Midnight.



Hope never dies

Irrelevant, they have already said that they will expand the existing zones with new stuff (geography, cultures, etc.).

Quel'Danas is minuscule only because most zones in 2007 were minuscule. Lorewise it's supposed to be sprawling and magnificent, almost like a second city:

there is not much variety there, right?

Elf + Scourge + Amani + Naga + Void + Light + Ethereals, and that's without any new cultures that Blizzard makes up on the spot, as they do with every expansion.

That seems like more than enough variety in terms of active factions.

[Hitei]

Guess that they might add an underwater zone? Azshara has to show up for Midnight.



Hope never dies

I'm just saying, you guys are gonna be disappointed a year and a half from now, when we're watching a feature trailer and Quel'thalas is a new zone only slightly bigger than its old area attached onto EK, with the rest of Lordaeron untouched save for maybe, maybe if you're really lucky, a fixed Stratholme since the coastal region of a slightly larger Quel'thalas will run into the "Northern Lordaeron" section that currently backs the city.

Azshara and a large Naga zone rising off the coast surrounding Quel'danas is more likely than Lordaeron somehow secretly being a thing that they just refused to mention at all, especially when they were so clear about downplaying the idea of a "revamp" at Blizzcon.

[Darkarath]

I'm just saying, you guys are gonna be disappointed a year and a half from now, when we're watching a feature trailer and Quel'thalas is a new zone only slightly bigger than its old area attached onto EK, with the rest of Lordaeron untouched save for maybe, maybe if you're really lucky, a fixed Stratholme since the coastal region of a slightly larger Quel'thalas will run into the "Northern Lordaeron" section that currently backs the city.

Azshara and a large Naga zone rising off the coast surrounding Quel'danas is more likely than Lordaeron somehow secretly being a thing that they just refused to mention at all, especially when they were so clear about downplaying the idea of a "revamp" at Blizzcon.

Oh I agree with you, I do not think that they are revamping all the north part of The Eastern Kingdoms. But again, what are we getting then? You perfectly know that just Quel'thalas but slighty bigger is not going to happen. Look at the size of current zones. They are massive. Nothing less than that will suffice.

[Varodoc]

But again, what are we getting then?.

Hm, i wonder, truly a mystery:

In Midnight, players will return to Quel'Thalas, where the forces of the Void have invaded Azeroth, intent on claiming the Sunwell and plunging the world into darkness and fear. Players will help reunify the scattered elven tribes of Azeroth and ultimately fight alongside the forces of the Light to banish the Shadow forever.[2]

- Chris Metzen

You perfectly know that just Quel'thalas but slighty bigger is not going to happen. Look at the size of current zones.

Actually, that's exactly what they said will happen.

“We’re giving our world builders some free rein to expand. Those areas may be geographically larger than they were. That’ll give them more opportunities to introduce some of the smaller points of interest where you’ll have a culture or a local tribe and give them the ability to have storylines that center on that. We don’t want people to feel like, oh, wait a minute, it’s that same place I know. It’s gonna feel like the same place; it’s just that it is literally going to be a little bit larger than what you’ve experienced. Flight being much more accessible, we need to have a larger landmass for people to be able to explore.”

https://butwhytho.net/2023/11/warcraft-john-hight/


So Yeah, as I said, this is the last year of Horde-exclusive Quel'Thalas. Enjoy it while it lasts.

[Hitei]

Oh I agree with you, I do not think that they are revamping all the north part of The Eastern Kingdoms. But again, what are we getting then? You perfectly know that just Quel'thalas but slighty bigger is not going to happen. Look at the size of current zones. They are massive. Nothing less than that will suffice.

I am dying on this hill. Quel'thalas = Isle of Dorn.

The rest of the expansion will probably be off-world. There will be a giant Void rift that their forces are pouring out of, and after you manage to secure Quel'thalas as part of the first zone/dungeon, the next zone will be you going through that rift to the Void's staging ground, probably on the remnants of K'aresh, and fighting to destabilize them there.

Like Isle of Dorn, Quel'thalas once secure will have our city, Silvermoon, and once we 'dive' to the K'aresh side, just like going into the underground in TWW, you'll have secondary factions and regions. Replace the Arathi and friendly nerubians with Ethereals, etc.

We know from interviews that they are viewing the updates to the old world in story relevant places as piecemeal and a "coat of paint"

When we're revisiting these older zones like Northrend and Quel'thalas, can we expect a glow up?
That would be pretty reasonable.

With the mention of specific zones in Midnight, should we expect continent-wide updates or more local updates?
Mostly local. With the detail put into modern zones, it's just not feasible to do full updates. Really want to focus and put our full effort into the specific areas related to these expansions. Expect a fresh coat of paint on specific area, but also that older versions likely won't be completely removed.

It's clear from TWW that this new expansion style doesn't mean they're cutting corners in terms of zone development and what not, which means that most of Midnight is going to be new, fresh and exciting zones. They are going to want most of the zones you deal with to be completely fresh places to explore, not the equivalent of Arathi Highlands' updates.

That trailer is going to roll, you're gonna get "updated zone: Quel'thalas" and then the next shot is gonna be the camera zooming through a big void portal and it's gonna be "new zone: <hard to pronounce Ethereal name>" and be purple deserts and Ethereal cities.

[Darkarath]

Hm, i wonder, truly a mystery:



- Chris Metzen



Actually, that's exactly what they said will happen.



https://butwhytho.net/2023/11/warcraft-john-hight/


So Yeah, as I said, this is the last year of Horde-exclusive Quel'Thalas. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Yet again, if we take such quotes literally, we will be getting expanded versions of The Eversong Woods and of The Ghostlands, and maybe of the Isle of Quel'Danas? Stiill missing one zone. One zone and a half IMO as the Isle of Quel'Danas by itself seems difficult to pull.

Anyway, pointless to discuss about this as we are not even in 11.0. I just find very interesting what kind of approach they will take, as such approach it is probably going to be used forward when they revamp more old zones.

I am dying on this hill. Quel'thalas = Isle of Dorn.

The rest of the expansion will probably be off-world. There will be a giant Void rift that their forces are pouring out of, and after you manage to secure Quel'thalas as part of the first zone/dungeon, the next zone will be you going through that rift to the Void's staging ground, probably on the remnants of K'aresh, and fighting to destabilize them there.

This is an interesting approach. I could buy it. But it is a little bit risky. When they announced Midnight, they created some expectations. Players clearly have in mind a full revamp of at the very least the Eversong Woods and the Isle of Quel'Danas. And while I agree that we will visit K'aresh in Midnight, if it is there from the beginning, what are you leaving for the patch zones? I see K'aresh more as an Argus than anything else.

[Varodoc]

Yet again, if we take such quotes literally, we will be getting expanded versions of The Eversong Woods and of The Ghostlands, and maybe of the Isle of Quel'Danas? Stiill missing one zone. One zone and a half IMO as the Isle of Quel'Danas by itself seems difficult to pull.

"Maybe of the Isle of Quel'Danas", Uhm No, Certainly of the Isle of Quel'Danas. Where the Sunwell is located.

And Zul Aman can easily be expanded into its own zone as Zuldazar is and as 10000 people have already suggested.

You know it's funny, even though Metzen literally said the expansion will take place in Quel'Thalas, some people are still not convinced. We might be seeing new Leak season after all, despite the WSS announcement.

[Hitei]

This is an interesting approach. I could buy it. But it is a little bit risky. When they announced Midnight, they created some expectations. Players clearly have in mind a full revamp of at the very least the Eversong Woods and the Isle of Quel'Danas. And while I agree that we will visit K'aresh in Midnight, if it is there from the beginning, what are you leaving for the patch zones? I see K'aresh more as an Argus than anything else.

Considering that the largely unrelated Undermine seems to be lined up to be TWW's major patch, I don't think we should assume any particular relevance to patch zones. They could be anything, wherever Azshara is doing Azshara stuff at, leaving a re-secured K'aresh to go into the actual plane of Void itself, time-jumping to the early days of the Black Empire when Xal'atath was hypothetically still an Old God. Who knows.

[Raetary]

Does it really matter?

Either the Peninsula becomes the primary continental body and Eversong and Ghostlands get magnified and stay seperate, or Eversong/Ghostlands become their own "Quel'thalas zone" and we get another zone to fill in.

The difference is really just whether or not Ghostland stay their own thing.

Either way we are getting a bigger, revamped, Quel'thalas area.

[username993720]

Emerald Dream and Argus would not work for me as expac "continents", because first one is a primal Azeroth

It's most likely not that. The Titans have been lying to us.
It's most likely a plane of dreams and the cosmic force of Life. There's a green dragon saying that there is more beyong the boundaries of what we've seen.

[Varodoc]

Does it really matter?

Either the Peninsula becomes the primary continental body and Eversong and Ghostlands get magnified and stay seperate, or Eversong/Ghostlands become their own "Quel'thalas zone" and we get another zone to fill in.

The difference is really just whether or not Ghostland stay their own thing.

Either way we are getting a bigger, revamped, Quel'thalas area.

You missed one key detail.

"A bigger, revamped, Quel'Thalas area", that will be Neutral.

[Valysar]

BFA raid soloing improvement not in alpha yet?

[Makabreska]

BFA raid soloing improvement not in alpha yet?

It seems we won't get any solo BfA raids in foreseeable future.

[Darkarath]

BFA raid soloing improvement not in alpha yet?

Is not suspicious that we have not had BfA Timewalking yet? DF is the first expansion that does not includes a new TW event since TW was implemented.

I highly doubt that this is caused by technical problems with BfA dungeons and raids. IMO at some point in TWW we will re-visit the TW system as a whole, because it is clear that events like Pandamonium are going to be rare, maybe we will get one or two of those for 2-3 months going forward for each expansion.

Now that I think about it, 11.0.5 will happen at the time of WoW's 20th anniversary. Perfect timing for a TW revamp.

Also friendly reminder that patch 10.0.5 brought the most important system of DF, the Trading Post. So it is not unlikely that they will implement an important system in a 0.5 patch.

[Valysar]

It seems we won't get any solo BfA raids in foreseeable future.

Is it that hard to "just" remove anti solo mechanics ?

[Enrif]

Is not suspicious that we have not had BfA Timewalking yet? DF is the first expansion that does not includes a new TW event since TW was implemented.

I highly doubt that this is caused by technical problems with BfA dungeons and raids. IMO at some point in TWW we will re-visit the TW system as a whole, because it is clear that events like Pandamonium are going to be rare, maybe we will get one or two of those for 2-3 months going forward for each expansion.

Now that I think about it, 11.0.5 will happen at the time of WoW's 20th anniversary. Perfect timing for a TW revamp.

Also friendly reminder that patch 10.0.5 brought the most important system of DF, the Trading Post. So it is not unlikely that they will implement an important system in a 0.5 patch.

I think BfA is in a "special" place, because it is also part of the new player experience. Perhaps that's why they don't do much with BfA-

[Makorus]

Is not suspicious that we have not had BfA Timewalking yet? DF is the first expansion that does not includes a new TW event since TW was implemented.

I highly doubt that this is caused by technical problems with BfA dungeons and raids. IMO at some point in TWW we will re-visit the TW system as a whole, because it is clear that events like Pandamonium are going to be rare, maybe we will get one or two of those for 2-3 months going forward for each expansion.

Now that I think about it, 11.0.5 will happen at the time of WoW's 20th anniversary. Perfect timing for a TW revamp.

Also friendly reminder that patch 10.0.5 brought the most important system of DF, the Trading Post. So it is not unlikely that they will implement an important system in a 0.5 patch.

The thing with Timewalking is that now that they've started to introduce old dungeons into Seasons, it makes it a bit awkward, so I think they are going to introduce a huge change to Timewalking, maybe more akin to Remix.

- - - Updated - - -

Does it really matter?

Either the Peninsula becomes the primary continental body and Eversong and Ghostlands get magnified and stay seperate, or Eversong/Ghostlands become their own "Quel'thalas zone" and we get another zone to fill in.

The difference is really just whether or not Ghostland stay their own thing.

Either way we are getting a bigger, revamped, Quel'thalas area.

I mean, the issue with "magnifying" old zones is that how will they connect to the rest of the old, unchanged world?

You can't just make Eversong x2 bigger without it affecting borders and and the attached zones.