Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Hitei]

I think BfA is in a "special" place, because it is also part of the new player experience. Perhaps that's why they don't do much with BfA-

Is not suspicious that we have not had BfA Timewalking yet? DF is the first expansion that does not includes a new TW event since TW was implemented.

I highly doubt that this is caused by technical problems with BfA dungeons and raids. IMO at some point in TWW we will re-visit the TW system as a whole, because it is clear that events like Pandamonium are going to be rare, maybe we will get one or two of those for 2-3 months going forward for each expansion.

Now that I think about it, 11.0.5 will happen at the time of WoW's 20th anniversary. Perfect timing for a TW revamp.

Also friendly reminder that patch 10.0.5 brought the most important system of DF, the Trading Post. So it is not unlikely that they will implement an important system in a 0.5 patch.

Isn't the more likely reason that DF was the expansion where they decided to fully swap to the 4 and 4 M+ season rotations? Season 2 and 3 both had two BfA dungeons each in them. They had probably just already planned on using those and felt like that would be enough of a revist. This was also the expansion we got turbulent timeways in addition to the pandamonium event, so I think they probably just felt like there was enough of an existing pool not to need to dip into the idea of "here's a new timewalking set".

At a certain point the rotation becomes bloated enough that each individual version becomes very rare. As it is, if you like BC timewalking for example, you have like 4 months between instances of that version occurring. Add BfA and SL into that mix and now you're only getting each one like every half a year.

I mean, the issue with "magnifying" old zones is that how will they connect to the rest of the old, unchanged world?

You can't just make Eversong x2 bigger without it affecting borders and and the attached zones.

I think it's worth pointing out again that x2 would not even be remotely enough. You would need to do like x5.

[Raetary]

I mean, the issue with "magnifying" old zones is that how will they connect to the rest of the old, unchanged world?

You can't just make Eversong x2 bigger without it affecting borders and and the attached zones.

Eversong and Ghostlands are not connected to anything.

They are instanced

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Or maybe not "instanced" in the way a dungeon is, but the place is not part of the EK map.
It's sitting in the game void next to Outland.

There are no borders to affect.

[Makabreska]

Or maybe not "instanced" in the way a dungeon is, but the place is not part of the EK map.

It's sitting in the game void next to Outland.

Yup. Hence the loading screen and reason why flying was unavailable there for so long.

[Makorus]

Eversong and Ghostlands are not connected to anything.

They are instanced

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Or maybe not "instanced" in the way a dungeon is, but the place is not part of the EK map.

It's sitting in the game void next to Outland.

Fair enough, actually, that's a good point. That solves the problem of "You can't just make it bigger", I guess.

[Dracullus]

I mean, the issue with "magnifying" old zones is that how will they connect to the rest of the old, unchanged world?

You can't just make Eversong x2 bigger without it affecting borders and and the attached zones.

Try to get to Queal'Thalas without loading screen. It's separate continent, if I remember correctly it shares map with Outlands and Draenei islands.

So during Midnight it will be piss easy, TLT too cause I think they just revamp whole continent not just Ulduar part. But I hope they have ambitions to do it with other parts of EK/Kalimdor to eventually make them huge compared to islands and msllaer continents. And that will require more work.

Also I really hope they won't repeat Cata mistake as Ion promised (member interview about revamp like 1-2 months before Blizzcon?). Old Quel'Thalas should be accessible through caverns of time portal. And they should bring back old old world same way.

[Hitei]

Try to get to Queal'Thalas without loading screen. It's separate continent, if I remember correctly it shares map with Outlands and Draenei islands.

So during Midnight it will be piss easy, TLT too cause I think they just revamp whole continent not just Ulduar part. But I hope they have ambitions to do it with other parts of EK/Kalimdor to eventually make them huge compared to islands and msllaer continents. And that will require more work.

Also I really hope they won't repeat Cata mistake as Ion promised (member interview about revamp like 1-2 months before Blizzcon?). Old Quel'Thalas should be accessible through caverns of time portal. And they should bring back old old world same way.

It'll just be a Zidormi toggle.

[Dracullus]

It'll just be a Zidormi toggle.

I just said what I would prefer - having specific place for all future "retired" places, not searching for NPC in the world. Gameplay wise enetering portal and picking dialogue option in Zidormi would be same thing.

[Ersula]

I mean, the issue with "magnifying" old zones is that how will they connect to the rest of the old, unchanged world?

You can't just make Eversong x2 bigger without it affecting borders and and the attached zones.

This is why I'm saying you all are interpreting "expand" wrong when they said they'd do that for Quelthalas. "Expand" in relation to historical locations in WoW doesn't literally mean make them bigger: It means elaborating on them conceptually. "Expanding Suramar" is what they did when they created the Broken Isles. Originally, in Warcraft 3, Suramar was just the Temple of Elune, but in WoW it became a whole archipelago, with diverse cultures & biomes. There should be dozens of small islands with elven ruins that make up Quel'thalas north of the main city: That is what will consist of the expansion's location.

[Makorus]

This is why I'm saying you all are interpreting "expand" wrong when they said they'd do that for Quelthalas. "Expand" in relation to historical locations in WoW doesn't literally mean make them bigger: It means elaborating on them conceptually. "Expanding Suramar" is what they did when they created the Broken Isles. Originally, in Warcraft 3, Suramar was just the Temple of Elune, but in WoW it became a whole archipelago, with diverse cultures & biomes. There should be dozens of small islands with elven ruins that make up Quel'thalas north of the main city: That is what will consist of the expansion's location.

I mean, they would literally have to expand the zones as well though, even if you combine Eversong+Ghostlands, it's still really really small.

Quel'danas is a joke as well.

[Ersula]

I mean, they would literally have to expand the zones as well though, even if you combine Eversong+Ghostlands, it's still really really small

Revamping Silvermoon, Eversong & Ghostlands as a single zone would put it on par with modern zones, size wise, like Tiragarde Sound.

For example, here's a hypothetical concept of 12.0 zones without retconning their size:

Eversong - Silvermoon to the Ghostlands.
Zul'Aman - The kingdom of the Forest Trolls & ruins of a Black Empire Capital
Queldanas Noir - The Sunwell island has been expanded with Nightborne architecture, like Suramar's harbor city canals
Asutel - Ruins of an ancient Highborne city once retaken by overgrowth, now retaken by Naga
Nael'Thalis - A new Blood Elf settlement being build northwest of Silvermoon, but the construction is being halted by undead

[Makabreska]

I mean, they would literally have to expand the zones as well though, even if you combine Eversong+Ghostlands, it's still really really small.

Quel'danas is a joke as well.

I'm up for that. Always liked Quel'Thalas, it is more interesting for me than anything we may find in TLT Northrend.

[THEORACLE64]

This is how the lore has always worked. sorry, not sorry.

It’s funny how absolutely wrong you are. That book was written pre-expansion, and so things are always subject to change. Just because it came out in conjunction with the expansion it doesn’t mean it “came after”. Whatever happens and is referred to in-game is a lot more current than stuff that was written over a year before hand.

[Ersula]

This is how the lore has always worked. sorry, not sorry.

Both sides of this argument are annoying because neither of you understand the nuance that early dragon aspect technology & titan technology is the exact same thing. All the technology the aspects had were given to them by the Titans.

[Hitei]

This is why I'm saying you all are interpreting "expand" wrong when they said they'd do that for Quelthalas. "Expand" in relation to historical locations in WoW doesn't literally mean make them bigger: It means elaborating on them conceptually. "Expanding Suramar" is what they did when they created the Broken Isles. Originally, in Warcraft 3, Suramar was just the Temple of Elune, but in WoW it became a whole archipelago, with diverse cultures & biomes. There should be dozens of small islands with elven ruins that make up Quel'thalas north of the main city: That is what will consist of the expansion's location.

Not really sure you can compare a minor WC3 location with a long-running consistently depicted region that already exists in game.

I think that the "expand" is physical, not conceptual I just think people are misunderstanding the contextual framing of "expanded". Hight specifically said it would " a little bit larger than what you’ve experienced". The other devs described it as a new coat of paint.

It's not gonna be Eversong-ghostlands-ZA-SMC being a Dragon Isles sized landmass. It'll be like how Ohn'ahran plains got expanded with Amirdrassil and Bel'ameth.

It'll be Ghostlands being fixed up, Deatholme now being a Forsaken city or something. Sunsail Anchorage being expanded from a single building with some boats, to a larger harbor village on the coast. The edges of the zones where there's now just mountains and a narrow strip of land with murlocs will instead be mountains and then a wider bit of land with small towns and outposts. They'll probably do something like Stormwind's Port addition to the northern side of SMC, and cut through the mountains of Zul'Aman to the eastern coast with Zandalari tenuously helping the Amani.

As the interviews said, it will be physically a little bit bigger, with new areas and cultures and stuff.

Like this:

That’ll give them more opportunities to introduce some of the smaller points of interest where you’ll have a culture or a local tribe and give them the ability to have storylines that center on that. We don’t want people to feel like, oh, wait a minute, it’s that same place I know. It’s gonna feel like the same place; it’s just that it is literally going to be a little bit larger than what you’ve experienced.

[Holdodlig]

Is it that hard to "just" remove anti solo mechanics ?

With timewalking and fated content, I think it just became obvious to them that they can recycle old raids instead of making them irrelevant and just a cosmetic stockpile

[Samin]

Eversong and Ghostlands are not connected to anything.

They are instanced

- - - Updated - - -

Or maybe not "instanced" in the way a dungeon is, but the place is not part of the EK map.
It's sitting in the game void next to Outland.

There are no borders to affect.

Didn't Metzen (or someone else?) say that they will be attached to the old world and no longer instanced in Midnight? Or did I dream that?

[milkmustache]

Didn't Metzen (or someone else?) say that they will be attached to the old world and no longer instanced in Midnight? Or did I dream that?

I think you're correct, there was either a direct statement or an implication that the same seamless loading tech used in Zaralek and Khaz Algar will continue over to Quel'thalas.

[Samin]

I think you're correct, there was either a direct statement or an implication that the same seamless loading tech used in Zaralek and Khaz Algar will continue over to Quel'thalas.

I'm drawing a complete blank where this was said though. I would love to review it, if it's really "just" implied to use seamless loading, then it of course can still be bigger without any issue because it's not actually attached.

[Nymrohd]

Not really sure you can compare a minor WC3 location with a long-running consistently depicted region that already exists in game.

I think that the "expand" is physical, not conceptual I just think people are misunderstanding the contextual framing of "expanded". Hight specifically said it would " a little bit larger than what you’ve experienced". The other devs described it as a new coat of paint.

It's not gonna be Eversong-ghostlands-ZA-SMC being a Dragon Isles sized landmass. It'll be like how Ohn'ahran plains got expanded with Amirdrassil and Bel'ameth.

It'll be Ghostlands being fixed up, Deatholme now being a Forsaken city or something. Sunsail Anchorage being expanded from a single building with some boats, to a larger harbor village on the coast. The edges of the zones where there's now just mountains and a narrow strip of land with murlocs will instead be mountains and then a wider bit of land with small towns and outposts. They'll probably do something like Stormwind's Port addition to the northern side of SMC, and cut through the mountains of Zul'Aman to the eastern coast with Zandalari tenuously helping the Amani.

As the interviews said, it will be physically a little bit bigger, with new areas and cultures and stuff.

Like this:

If it is just that, then it would be slightly larger than the Azure span. I am not saying it cannot end up like this, just stating the size of current zones compared to Ghostlands and Eversong. So they'd have to pull out at least a couple of zones somewhere.

[Sondrelk]

I still think people are far too hung up on the whole "return to Quel'thalas" portion of the announcement.
Why wouldnt they also have a section in the Plaguelands given it's right next to Quel'thalas? And by extension a bit of a Scourge or undead presence for variety? Why wouldnt we have Scarlet Crusaders learning about Avaloren and getting some more foreshadowing that way?

Sure, we could get Ghostlands, Eversong and Quel'danas, and see said zones be expanded upon. But why wouldnt we also get some zones south of that?