Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Ksgrip]

I see two as the far more probable and better setup alternative

[Auxis]

My point is that it didn't last too long. Why does everyone here ignore that when talking about Turalyon's supposed "zealotry". If he was the person half of the people here say he is he would've either killed Illidan then and there or be killed by him. Anything except actually walking around.

I think Xe'ra had some kinda of sway over Turalyon, or at least blessed him in some form. During the cinematic where Illidan kills Xe'ra, Turalyon's eyes are a lemon-yellow from the moment she was revived, until after she was disintegrated when his eyes visibly shifted from the lemon-yellow to a more honey-yellow colour. I thought it might have been literally her light illuminating his eyes, but there is no change in illumination on his model during the moment when his eyes changed.

Around the 2:40 mark:

[Cheezits]

I think it will be something like this.

TWW- Core is saved from being corrupted by Xal and is safeguarded somehow, but Xal "wins" in another way (likely possessing or corrupting Alleria forcibly), which causes her to attack Silvermoon and/or summon a void force to Azeroth

Midnight- the Void is MOSTLY fought off and cleansed from North EK, but SOMEONE wins in a major way (either Dimensius or, more likely IMO, Azshara) that leads us to retreat and have to reach out to the keepers

TLT- Odyn arrives at Ulduar, starts a Keeper civil war, and begins the process of summoning the Titans to wipe out Azeroth as he sees the mortals have failed in Midnight. We have to knock sense into him/kill him and deal with Iridikron is who is lurking around. Unsure on the exact ending but I'm guessing true and ultimate freedom from the titans

Avaloren could be interwoven into any of this, but I think it's more likely for it and the Light to be a main focus, and an antagonistic force, in the saga following TWSS. Especially given how it is to the side of Kalimdor and we are due for some Kalimdor focus in the next saga.

[Samin]

Partly out of contrarianess, partly because I like the subversion, I would love if they retconned "Her heart is a crater and we have filled it" to actually refer to Beledar

[Nymrohd]

I think Xe'ra had some kinda of sway over Turalyon, or at least blessed him in some form. During the cinematic where Illidan kills Xe'ra, Turalyon's eyes are a lemon-yellow from the moment she was revived, until after she was disintegrated when his eyes visibly shifted from the lemon-yellow to a more honey-yellow colour. I thought it might have been literally her light illuminating his eyes, but there is no change in illumination on his model during the moment when his eyes changed.

Around the 2:40 mark:

Or it is just resonance. Everyone infused with the Light would resonate to a prime Naaru and be empowered simply by their presence. Makes sense to me.

[BaumanKing]

I think Xe'ra had some kinda of sway over Turalyon

I hate to admit it, but it worked both ways between them. In audiodrama Turalyon was able to convince Xe'ra not to kill his wife by showing her through the Light his deep feelings and love for Alleria. Since then Turalyon has never even once condemned Alleria for using the Void. He constantly supports her and believes in her. So it now seems to me that if he becomes a villain it will only be because of Alleria. Even in Shadows Rising, he only started committing war crimes because Alleria insisted. Hell, even before that, on Draenor, he agreed to butcher the dragon eggs only because again Alleria insisted.

[Ksgrip]

I hate to admit it, but it worked both ways between them. In audiodrama Turalyon was able to convince Xe'ra not to kill his wife by showing her through the Light his deep feelings and love for Alleria. Since then Turalyon has never even once condemned Alleria for using the Void. He constantly supports her and believes in her. So it now seems to me that if he becomes a villain it will only be because of Alleria. Even in Shadows Rising, he only started committing war crimes because Alleria insisted. Hell, even before that, on Draenor, he agreed to butcher the dragon eggs only because again Alleria insisted.

I think the same. Turalyon will only go bad if Alleria does as well

[Santandame]

Last time we spent an entire expansion in a cosmic realm the playerbase rioted. I don't think we're going to completely ignore the concept, but I also don't think we're going to be spending entire expansions in them anymore. A patch seems like the compromise.

As for Avaloren, I certainly hope it's an expansion setting, but the writing is on the wall for it being a patch in TWW or Midnight. These aren't the patches I want, they're the patches I'm predicting.

They're going to expand on Quel'thalas and make more zones for it from the launch of the expansion - I doubt the patch zones will add any extra zones to Quel'thalas beyond maybe an expanded Isle of Quel'danas, so going to another realm seems like the most likely option there. We already know it's going to be 'a fight between Light and Void', and we already know Azshara is 'beyond the umbral veil' looking for 'the true throne of power', so using the Sunwell to create a portal there seems like a safe bet.

As for Northrend, I'm more than half expecting they're going to revamp the majority of the continent for the launch of the expansion, which leaves little in the way of patch zones other than underground or in some new Titan spaceship or something. Part of me wonders if Ulduar is going to be turned into an 'outdoor' patch zone, but that could end up being a bit disappointing to a lot of players if it's just asset reuse. I'm not sure how big they're going with their ambitions yet, so I think "Northrend at launch, extra zones in patches" is safe, and if we're going to be ending the titan conspiracy it makes sense to fight them in their own realm so they can't come back.

But why are you predicting Avaloren for patch content for TWW, and even Midnight? It doesn’t seem like an immediate point of interest for either.

TWW is clearly the “underground” expansion and its seemingly going to stay that way. Immediate areas being foreshadowed in TWW are the Rootlands, Undermine and possibly the World Soul itself (though I believe we’ll be seeing that in The Last Titan).

We’re not just going to swan off to the other side of the planet when Xal’ataths aim is corrupting the world soul and possibly reaching Eluhn’anir (sp?) below the surface of Azeroth.

It’s not really fitting for Midnight either.

Avaloren is clearly being setup for an expansion or even multiple following the WSS. It’s being seeded throughout the lore now so we don’t get people complaining that we get a new landmass out of nowhere with no previous lore. Similar to how Northrend was built up throughout WC3, Classic and TBC.

If we’re following the Dragonflight formula, then the .1 raid patches seem to be more of a side/B plot storyline where the mega dungeon seems to be more of a bigger lore event. If Undermine is any indication, then it’s apparent we’re continuing to head that way.

My predictions for WSS patches are the following:

TWW

11.0 - Nerubians
11.1 - Undermine
11.1.5 - Caverns of Time showing The Scouring / Xal being consumed by the Old Gods. (Mega dungeon)
11.2 - The Rootlands / Eluhn’anir

Midnight

12.0 - Sunwell
12.1 - Scourge or Troll or Naga
12.1.5 - Scarlet Monastery (Mega dungeon) Showcasing more of Avaloren’s forces forming an alliance with the Scarlets.
12.2 - K’aresh

The Last Titan

13.0 - Ulduar
13.1 - Drawing a blank here, I’m not sure we’ll know until we see how Northrend has changed. Could be Vrykul related but I see Odyn being dealt with in the first raid. Possibly some more Avaloren seeding.
13.1.5 - Iridikron’s Lair (Mega dungeon)
13.2 - Heart of Azeroth/World Soul (Uldaz?)

[Sondrelk]

TWW

11.0 - Nerubians
11.1 - Undermine
11.1.5 - Caverns of Time showing The Scouring / Xal being consumed by the Old Gods. (Mega dungeon)
11.2 - The Rootlands / Eluhn’anir

Midnight

12.0 - Sunwell
12.1 - Scourge or Troll or Naga
12.1.5 - Scarlet Monastery (Mega dungeon) Showcasing more of Avaloren’s forces forming an alliance with the Scarlets.
12.2 - K’aresh

The Last Titan

13.0 - Ulduar
13.1 - Drawing a blank here, I’m not sure we’ll know until we see how Northrend has changed. Could be Vrykul related but I see Odyn being dealt with in the first raid. Possibly some more Avaloren seeding.
13.1.5 - Iridikron’s Lair (Mega dungeon)
13.2 - Heart of Azeroth/World Soul (Uldaz?)

My personal guess would be:

11.0: Nerubians
11.1: Rootlands
11.1.5: Undermine Megadungeon
11.2: Silithus underground (from across the sea in Hallowfall)

12.0: Sunwell or Silvermoon
12.1: Stratholme
12.1.5 Scarlet Monastery Megadungeon
12.2: K'aresh

13.0: Harrowsdeep
13.1: Possibly Icecrown or Vrykul themed. Though Gundrak would be great seeing as we didn't get it back in Wrath
13.1.5: One of the options mentioned above as a megadungeon
13.2: Ulduar leading into the Heart of Azeroth.

[Alanar]

I don’t think he is boring at all, in fact the biggest proof he isn’t is that he is constantly at the centre of speculation of the saga and people have to make totally wild headcanons regarding his character that ultimately class with what we know.

Regardless there is sure to be conflict bread from the clash between light and void but I really don’t see it being a literal 1 vs 1 between Alleria and Turalyon because at the end they are still a strong family.

And of course I don’t want a simple good vs evil but let’s not pretend the only middle ground is making him a fucking villain to kill. That would be terrible for the setting and the character. You can have nuanced conflicts and if anything the most nuanced one is precisely him not being a cartoon zealot but a king forced to make seemingly good decisions that turn bad and has his internal struggle with how to proceed because his wife may end up in the opposite camp.

Pretending that he would chose the light over his duty to the alliance or even his family is simply not who he is as a character. It’s far more probable and satisfying that his would be an arc of failing to deal properly with the duty of leading the alliance and stepping down after previously being convinced that he had made the right calls at the time, allowing for Anduin to get back being king and letting him have a complex relationship with his family that ultimately helps him have that turning point. Perhaps even having to renounce to the light when it is clear it may conflict with what is most important to him.

This is nuanced and much better than muahaha for the light let’s kill everyone. Also it is so obvious to me the Arathians are going to fill that void of new light fanatics that turn things to shit after defeating the void invasion. Remember they also introduced the lawful good (probably to be anduins wife) from Avaloren.

You like him, I get it. That doesnt mean that he is interesting perse for everyone. Like I said there really isnt much to him. There is tons of speculation, but that doesnt change or mean much right now. I dont see much speculation about him specifically personally perse, more like a few mentions. The attention is mostly towards alleria and Xal. He has yet to appear in anything other then just legion stuff or filling up a seat in stormwind.

I have yet to see their strong bond honestly, that could be explored sure, but even alleria says she is diststance herself, so there is barely any contact it seems. Also, meh.. its not about a 1v1.. its about the forces that dont match with eachother. That is what I am talking about. Her distancing herself drom her family has a reason to it after all. She says this in the latest cinematic.

We only know so much about him to be fair, I cant really say that isnt something hes character can or wont do. We dont know. Also no one is saying muhaha killing everyone for the light. Him being goodietwoshoes is boring on itself and we have enough light wielders who fill that spot. Hes position and hes relationship with alleria thus void vs light is largely unexplored so far. But tbh I rather see more happening then just light is good. Which we know cant be called good in that sense. Its neutral and can be used for bad things. Him teaming up with Yrel could make for an interesting turn of events. Knowing alleria went more and more to the void, eating the heart and all, same could be done with Turalyon. She could also have not do all of that and stay with her family. which she didnt. That was a selfish act mostly.

Hes very bland, so I dont know why people find him interesting at all. Its mostly just; BuT HeS FrOm warCRaft 2!!! Og ChArater!! Like I said, I dont care either way, but I am simply not interested in just the goodie light boy, which we have seen multiple off already. Right now it just feels we know everything we need to know from him. He needs to prove himself to be anything else, but a paladin who fought demons for years. Its just a lame story so far imo.

You are free to dissagree, but not everyone is as interested in Turalyon as you for example.

[milkmustache]

My personal guess would be:

11.0: Nerubians
11.1: Rootlands
11.1.5: Undermine Megadungeon
11.2: Silithus underground (from across the sea in Hallowfall)

I agree that Rootlands won't be the final patch, but I think Undermine is guaranteed to be a full patch rather than a megadungeon simply due to the datamined icon's name being "goblinraid".

[Alanar]

Or it is just resonance. Everyone infused with the Light would resonate to a prime Naaru and be empowered simply by their presence. Makes sense to me.

The way he interacted with her and how he is light infused, I would so its slightly more then just a resonance, but it defo could just be a lighting up effect. I thought the light had a warmth like effect for some.but ye, its hard to tell and It doesnt have have to mean much else then that.

Hes bowing/kneeling and doing everything he can to restore her tho, kinda had a differnt feel to it. Hes a true follower of the light. How far would some one like him go when shit hits the fan.

[Santandame]

I agree that Rootlands won't be the final patch, but I think Undermine is guaranteed to be a full patch rather than a megadungeon simply due to the datamined icon's name being "goblinraid".

Then where do you fit the Rootlands? As we’re very likely only getting two major content patches.

If Undermine is a raid then I can’t see it being set in the Rootlands. Which means the 11.1 added zone is likely Undermine (if it is to be a raid) with the Undermine raid itself likely taking place in the centre of the city.

If we’re getting the Rootlands then the associated raid will likely be Eluhn’anir.

[Hitei]

Well, after ~5min it could offer to also consider other queues, like it does for Chromie Time.

What's dreadful about Court of Stars, the spy room? At the risk of going off-topic, I feel like this could be improved nowadays, with the NPCs showing their attire as private auras, so you can target them and check their buffs whether they fit the clues, instead of walking up close to them.
Or disable that mechanic for LFG (TW or not) and just have the spy flee to the area where we fight them when they spot us.

There's nothing "dreadful" about it, it's just significantly slower and more involved than the alternatives. You have to do the spy thing, if your group isn't on the ball or overgeared (which TW queued groups usually aren't) you have to do the demon pack boss side pulls. People have to actually be paying attention to the non-elites that trigger the alarms.

It's just very much the path of most resistance if you're choosing a pool of dungeons, and that VotW is also in that same pool makes it comparatively an even worse option.

It's not the end of the world, but differences like that compound. People talk in Trade about "how much slower" Legion is, and then everyone queues for Wrath TW, and then everyone knows each time that event comes around that you do the Wrath one not the Legion one, and the queue becomes worse each time.

After 5 minutes doesn't really solve the issue here, which is more that anyone who likes Legion TW in this hypothetical now either has to mostly run Wrath instead, or wait forever.

[Nymrohd]

The way he interacted with her and how he is light infused, I would so its slightly more then just a resonance, but it defo could just be a lighting up effect. I thought the light had a warmth like effect for some.but ye, its hard to tell and It doesnt have have to mean much else then that.

Hes bowing/kneeling and doing everything he can to restore her tho, kinda had a differnt feel to it. Hes a true follower of the light. How far would some one like him go when shit hits the fan.

Shit hit the fan when she died and he forgave have her killer because there was a bigger job to do. Heck he pleaded to the Light to spare his Void wife; a zealot would have turned her in. There is a wide gap between being faithful and being a zealot. I know we have demonized religion in the modern day (and with good reason) but there is nothing wrong with faith in itself.

[milkmustache]

Then where do you fit the Rootlands? As we’re very likely only getting two major content patches.

If Undermine is a raid then I can’t see it being set in the Rootlands. Which means the 11.1 added zone is likely Undermine (if it is to be a raid) with the Undermine raid itself likely taking place in the centre of the city.

If we’re getting the Rootlands then the associated raid will likely be Eluhn’anir.

I really don't know. I still think the final raid is either in the heart of Azeroth or in the Coreway. Maybe Elun'ahir's roots penetrated through the Coreway in a manner that allows easier access, and that's the entrance/inciting incident to the raid, which is how we get Rootlands as a final patch?

I'm super curious about it all.

You're right though, I was wrong. Rootlands seems to have to be 11.2 (unless they use it for 11.0.7 a la Forbidden Reach)

[Nymrohd]

I really don't know. I still think the final raid is either in the heart of Azeroth or in the Coreway. Maybe Elun'ahir's roots penetrated through the Coreway in a manner that allows easier access, and that's the entrance/inciting incident to the raid, which is how we get Rootlands as a final patch?

I'm super curious about it all.

You're right though, I was wrong. Rootlands seems to have to be 11.2 (unless they use it for 11.0.7 a la Forbidden Reach)

As I said earlier, Elun'ahir being the life equivalent of an Old God and having encircled the Core would make a solid final patch giving multiple themes for it (Void, Order, Life probably Light as well).
We are going to get Titan architecture earlier on, why not give it a spin by adding Life to it? It also sets up all the Forces for the finale in TLT while otherwise Life's relation to the plot would only be tangential.

[Ksgrip]

You like him, I get it. That doesnt mean that he is interesting perse for everyone. Like I said there really isnt much to him. There is tons of speculation, but that doesnt change or mean much right now. I dont see much speculation about him specifically personally perse, more like a few mentions. The attention is mostly towards alleria and Xal. He has yet to appear in anything other then just legion stuff or filling up a seat in stormwind.

I have yet to see their strong bond honestly, that could be explored sure, but even alleria says she is diststance herself, so there is barely any contact it seems. Also, meh.. its not about a 1v1.. its about the forces that dont match with eachother. That is what I am talking about. Her distancing herself drom her family has a reason to it after all. She says this in the latest cinematic.

We only know so much about him to be fair, I cant really say that isnt something hes character can or wont do. We dont know. Also no one is saying muhaha killing everyone for the light. Him being goodietwoshoes is boring on itself and we have enough light wielders who fill that spot. Hes position and hes relationship with alleria thus void vs light is largely unexplored so far. But tbh I rather see more happening then just light is good. Which we know cant be called good in that sense. Its neutral and can be used for bad things. Him teaming up with Yrel could make for an interesting turn of events. Knowing alleria went more and more to the void, eating the heart and all, same could be done with Turalyon. She could also have not do all of that and stay with her family. which she didnt. That was a selfish act mostly.

Hes very bland, so I dont know why people find him interesting at all. Its mostly just; BuT HeS FrOm warCRaft 2!!! Og ChArater!! Like I said, I dont care either way, but I am simply not interested in just the goodie light boy, which we have seen multiple off already. Right now it just feels we know everything we need to know from him. He needs to prove himself to be anything else, but a paladin who fought demons for years. Its just a lame story so far imo.

You are free to dissagree, but not everyone is as interested in Turalyon as you for example.

I see now that I had the miss placed belief the discussion would be a good endeavour while clearly you don’t have read the books and are speculating on whims of something you have a bare grasp and just want to tick boxes for conflict that has already been explored

- - - Updated - - -

Shit hit the fan when she died and he forgave have her killer because there was a bigger job to do. Heck he pleaded to the Light to spare his Void wife; a zealot would have turned her in. There is a wide gap between being faithful and being a zealot. I know we have demonized religion in the modern day (and with good reason) but there is nothing wrong with faith in itself.

He just wants the guy to be bad just because I see the bias clearly now. YouTuber theories doing damage once again

[Hitei]

Shit hit the fan when she died and he forgave have her killer because there was a bigger job to do. Heck he pleaded to the Light to spare his Void wife; a zealot would have turned her in. There is a wide gap between being faithful and being a zealot. I know we have demonized religion in the modern day (and with good reason) but there is nothing wrong with faith in itself.

A zealot isn't 100% where everything 99% and lower is not a zealot. The fact that he was angry that someone who was about to be enslaved fought back is pretty zealot territory, and while he argued for sparing Alleria, he also simply allowed her to be imprisoned. I'd call someone who lets their significant other of a thousand years be imprisoned (for basically just defying their religion), and then when she ends up free, not only doesn't hold it against the person who imprisoned her at all, but outright takes their side and acts like their significant other was in the wrong and needed to redeem herself, a zealot.

I don't think he's villainous, or heading in the direction of being a villain, but he's definitely a zealot.

[Ksgrip]

A zealot isn't 100% where everything 99% and lower is not a zealot. The fact that he was angry that someone who was about to be enslaved fought back is pretty zealot territory, and while he argued for sparing Alleria, he also simply allowed her to be imprisoned. I'd call someone who lets their significant other of a thousand years be imprisoned (for basically just defying their religion), and then when she ends up free, not only doesn't hold it against the person who imprisoned her at all, but outright takes their side and acts like their significant other was in the wrong and needed to redeem herself, a zealot.

I don't think he's villainous, or heading in the direction of being a villain, but he's definitely a zealot.

Jesus Christ he never blamed her IN FACT this is something objectively acknowledged by Alleria herself. Actually read the books instead of preaching forum posts as lore