Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nightshade711]

Oh it’s a politics thing…

Pretty much what it’s always been.
People also like to project IRL religion onto the light.

[Super Dickmann]

Yeah honestly she is an absolute dick and a savage. But it is wild the disconnect with Turalyon casually strolling through Silvermoon and talking to Liadrin and has achieved the longest peace time. But now he hates orcs.

Something he had already let go off.

Him letting go of it was nonsensical and Turalyon, who's relationship with the Light began at large from deciding he had to purge all orcs, who incidentally also killed his mentor, still disliking orcs is good. It also isn't at all contradictory with being allowed to visit Silvermoon, a city he and the elves helped protect from those very same orcs. The idea that orcs and elves should be treated identically because they're ostensibly part of the same polity makes little sense even more so in the current Horde, which is a hollow husk with no defining racial, cultural or even interest-based reason to exist.

Not that I expect much to come of this, the overall position of TWW and very likely the saga at large is to go full tilt on the Unifaction until they hit the wall. Having exhausted 'Anduin and friends fight unrelated ghosts in space' and 'post-Unifaction unrelated characters team up in a Hearthstone spin-off' we've moved onto 'Anduin and friends plus the chimeric Unifaction fight baddies on Azeroth' stage of Blizzard relearning the basics of their own franchise. We're still a ways off and a lot of complaining away from them realizing that clashing groups and races is the meat and potatoes of the story. If it assuages you, this below is the actual TWW faction position:

[Nymrohd]

Not that I expect much to come of this, the overall position of TWW and very likely the saga at large is to go full tilt on the Unifaction until they hit the wall. Having exhausted 'Anduin and friends fight unrelated ghosts in space' and 'post-Unifaction unrelated characters team up in a Hearthstone spin-off' we've moved onto 'Anduin and friends plus the chimeric Unifaction fight baddies on Azeroth' stage of Blizzard relearning the basics of their own franchise. We're still a ways off and a lot of complaining away from them realizing that clashing groups and races is the meat and potatoes of the story. If it assuages you, this below is the actual TWW faction position:

Chances of the faction lines completely dissolving by the trilogy's end rising.

[BaumanKing]

Wait what has Turalyon done to “save the indigenous people? Maybe I’m missing something. I haven’t played or watch anything on the alpha so idk.

His whole schtick back in the day was to go to another planet to save other worlds from destruction by the Horde or later by Legion. You know, because only a white male is capable of leading the Army of Light, and not the thousand-year-old draenei. I was afraid something similar would happen on Khaz Algar, but I later saw a screenshot of his interaction with Geya'rah, so my fears were unfounded.

Turalyon is based. )

Oh yeah, I finally saw it. Now I'm super happy. Since Turalyon is portrayed negatively, they're clearly setting him up to become a villain in Midnight. I don't believe this is just friendly banter between them. The entire questline shows how outdated and incompetent WC2 heroes are with their faction biases. Only Alleria is right when she notes that the Horde and Alliance no longer matter.

And I hope you're kidding because being overtly racist is not "based".

[Calfredd]

His whole schtick back in the day was to go to another planet to save other worlds from destruction by the Horde or later by Legion. You know, because only a white male is capable of leading the Army of Light, and not the thousand-year-old draenei. I was afraid something similar would happen on Khaz Algar, but I later saw a screenshot of his interaction with Geya'rah, so my fears were unfounded.



Oh yeah, I finally saw it. Now I'm super happy. Since Turalyon is portrayed negatively, they're clearly setting him up to become a villain in Midnight. I don't believe this is just friendly banter between them. The entire questline shows how outdated and incompetent WC2 heroes are with their faction biases. Only Alleria is right when she notes that the Horde and Alliance no longer matter.

And I hope you're kidding because being overtly racist is not "based".

You tend to have multiple chips on your shoulder.

[Super Dickmann]

Chances of the faction lines completely dissolving by the trilogy's end rising.

What's there to dissolve, this is already the end state. The current soft merge means you can team up cross-faction for guilds and any relevant bit of content for gameplay purposes and the Horde has been dead-letter as a faction since 8.2.5, with Unknown's obeisance before Our Lord just being a repeat of his and Baine's time on the rocks while Jaina soloes hell's angels back in Shadowlands. Probably the last time the factions and races existed as sensible polities who reacted to existing grudges and cultures was Shadows Rising. The only things you can't do is things like go into Orgrimmar as Alliance (pointless) and do old faction-exclusive quests (huge bother to program with little payoff).

[Lahis]

Why not Greya then?

Jesus let that shit theory die already. Fucking Bellular man it is Damm fault

Before the introduction of the Holy Arathi Emperor, Turalyon and Yrel were the strongest choices for an important end tier raid boss for the Light Is Evil Actually -expansion.

But now they have whole Empire to villain bat, so there is not as big of a need to turn Turalyon into raid boss.

[Nathanyel]

Pretty much what it’s always been.
People also like to project IRL religion onto the light.

The writers based the Light and its followers on IRL Christianity - first the romanticized myth of benevolence, later the reality of fanaticism.

[Ksgrip]

Him letting go of it was nonsensical and Turalyon, who's relationship with the Light began at large from deciding he had to purge all orcs, who incidentally also killed his mentor, still disliking orcs is good. It also isn't at all contradictory with being allowed to visit Silvermoon, a city he and the elves helped protect from those very same orcs. The idea that orcs and elves should be treated identically because they're ostensibly part of the same polity makes little sense even more so in the current Horde, which is a hollow husk with no defining racial, cultural or even interest-based reason to exist.

Not that I expect much to come of this, the overall position of TWW and very likely the saga at large is to go full tilt on the Unifaction until they hit the wall. Having exhausted 'Anduin and friends fight unrelated ghosts in space' and 'post-Unifaction unrelated characters team up in a Hearthstone spin-off' we've moved onto 'Anduin and friends plus the chimeric Unifaction fight baddies on Azeroth' stage of Blizzard relearning the basics of their own franchise. We're still a ways off and a lot of complaining away from them realizing that clashing groups and races is the meat and potatoes of the story. If it assuages you, this below is the actual TWW faction position:

I think tensions are natural and should still happen but I really don’t like leaders being racist just because, specially when one had an arc about learning not to be that.

We will see where this goes

- - - Updated - - -

Before the introduction of the Holy Arathi Emperor, Turalyon and Yrel were the strongest choices for an important end tier raid boss for the Light Is Evil Actually -expansion.

But now they have whole Empire to villain bat, so there is not as big of a need to turn Turalyon into raid boss.

Being honest it was always nonsense. It was a blatant check box, light must be evil so we totally have to make x character evil for that to happen. That is the definition of bad writing, setting an overarching plot that has to come before the actual characters involved, so they end up twisted to fit the goal.

The light emperor to me is the biggest red herring they have introduced. We don’t need an excuse for wanting to go to their continent but the guy commands an empire that worships him as a god and they seem to be xenophobes. At least with this it makes sense because the guy is a blank check box.

- - - Updated - - -

His whole schtick back in the day was to go to another planet to save other worlds from destruction by the Horde or later by Legion. You know, because only a white male is capable of leading the Army of Light, and not the thousand-year-old draenei. I was afraid something similar would happen on Khaz Algar, but I later saw a screenshot of his interaction with Geya'rah, so my fears were unfounded.



Oh yeah, I finally saw it. Now I'm super happy. Since Turalyon is portrayed negatively, they're clearly setting him up to become a villain in Midnight. I don't believe this is just friendly banter between them. The entire questline shows how outdated and incompetent WC2 heroes are with their faction biases. Only Alleria is right when she notes that the Horde and Alliance no longer matter.

And I hope you're kidding because being overtly racist is not "based".

Jesus, get over it because this is not a setup for a villain even if you so desperately want it. It is simple faction friction. And I find it kinda sad you are so Damm desperate for something that is not going to happen. And I am sure you will cry foul when you don’t get your very clear bias validated

[Darkarath]

I think that people should calm down a little bit about Horde and Alliance being one faction.

We have always worked together against Azeroth's threaths. Always. WSS seems to be yet the biggest battle that we will have to face so of course we will work together, as it should be.

After that, though, it is just a matter of time that we start killing each other again. The Arathi Empire could be the perfect reason to increase tensions between factions, as there will be Alliance that would like to ally with this Empire.

[Schwert]

Alleria being the neutral one is just bad writing with no understanding of her character or her origins.
We need the neutral characters to balance everything out, but absolutely not the WC 1 / 2 cast.

But yeah, this is no sign that the Horde and Alliance are going anywhere, especially with that other dialogue.
It has it's place. This whole bout of dialogue is perfectly Warcraft, and actually gives me some hope that the overall direction will be back on brand again, even if they accidentally screwed up which characters are doing what.

Also, if you're mad about characters acting racist in a fantasy war game, go play another genre or franchise. This game wasn't for you; stop trying to force it to change.

[Xilurm]

His whole schtick back in the day was to go to another planet to save other worlds from destruction by the Horde or later by Legion. You know, because only a white male is capable of leading the Army of Light, and not the thousand-year-old draenei. I was afraid something similar would happen on Khaz Algar, but I later saw a screenshot of his interaction with Geya'rah, so my fears were unfounded.



Oh yeah, I finally saw it. Now I'm super happy. Since Turalyon is portrayed negatively, they're clearly setting him up to become a villain in Midnight. I don't believe this is just friendly banter between them. The entire questline shows how outdated and incompetent WC2 heroes are with their faction biases. Only Alleria is right when she notes that the Horde and Alliance no longer matter.

And I hope you're kidding because being overtly racist is not "based".

Are you forgetting who attacked first? The Orcs invaded from a whole another planet and then Turalyon and co pushed them back and entered their own world to end things for good. They didn't go there to "save" anyone except the people on Azeroth, and they basically sacrificed themselves.

I don't believe this is just friendly banter between them.

No one said it is. And reading it, it doesn't even seem anything remotely close to "friendly" banter. Stop trying to find excuses to confirm your irl biases. In WoD the Orcs decided to conquer and enslave even without the Legion's influence. What's your excuse for that?

[Ereb]

I think that people should calm down a little bit about Horde and Alliance being one faction.

We have always worked together against Azeroth's threaths. Always. WSS seems to be yet the biggest battle that we will have to face so of course we will work together, as it should be.

After that, though, it is just a matter of time that we start killing each other again. The Arathi Empire could be the perfect reason to increase tensions between factions, as there will be Alliance that would like to ally with this Empire.

The whole faction war thing has been incredibly forced and that poor horse has been long dead and rotting/decomposing yet ppl still beatin the hell outa poor girl

It's been beyond time that the factions merged or however it ends up being, I thought in BFA they were finally working towards that, but as usual blizz half-asses it and chickens out on making the big decisions

[Xilurm]

Him letting go of it was nonsensical and Turalyon, who's relationship with the Light began at large from deciding he had to purge all orcs, who incidentally also killed his mentor, still disliking orcs is good. It also isn't at all contradictory with being allowed to visit Silvermoon, a city he and the elves helped protect from those very same orcs. The idea that orcs and elves should be treated identically because they're ostensibly part of the same polity makes little sense even more so in the current Horde, which is a hollow husk with no defining racial, cultural or even interest-based reason to exist.

Not that I expect much to come of this, the overall position of TWW and very likely the saga at large is to go full tilt on the Unifaction until they hit the wall. Having exhausted 'Anduin and friends fight unrelated ghosts in space' and 'post-Unifaction unrelated characters team up in a Hearthstone spin-off' we've moved onto 'Anduin and friends plus the chimeric Unifaction fight baddies on Azeroth' stage of Blizzard relearning the basics of their own franchise. We're still a ways off and a lot of complaining away from them realizing that clashing groups and races is the meat and potatoes of the story. If it assuages you, this below is the actual TWW faction position:

I wish we knew how she came to this conclusion.

[Ksgrip]

No one said it is. And reading it, it doesn't even seem anything remotely close to "friendly" banter. Stop trying to find excuses to confirm your irl biases. In WoD the Orcs decided to conquer and enslave even without the Legion's influence. What's your excuse for that?

They definitely don’t like each other but that doesn’t mean they will go crusading on the other. In fact they still worked towards the same exact goal. I find it hilarious that some go and say : “See! He will be fucking evil”

The dude has maintained peace for five years, that he doesn’t like orcs doesn’t mean shit compared to that. And how in the hell do people expect faction war to reignite now that the saga clearly has far bigger fish to fry than muh humies and orcs bad.

[Varodoc]

Oh yeah, I finally saw it. Now I'm super happy. Since Turalyon is portrayed negatively, they're clearly setting him up to become a villain in Midnight.

Keep dreaming, about this, and many other things.

[Samin]

I wish we knew how she came to this conclusion.

Probably seeing the bigger picture. She already knew of the Xal threat. By this point I assume she is aware that the song is Azeroth calling for help. "We're in this together as the mortal* peoples of Azeroth" is a reasonable conclusion, although one I'm sure not everyone shares.

[Lady Atia]

I'm doing the Isle of Thunder questline on remix right now, and ngl, the Zandalari there peaked at their design, which for some weird reason BfA never really managed to achieve imo. Prolly because they used player gear on the playable Zandalari and we didn't have skirts yet, which is quite a shame.

[Nathanyel]

After that, though, it is just a matter of time that we start killing each other again. The Arathi Empire could be the perfect reason to increase tensions between factions, as there will be Alliance that would like to ally with this Empire.

Before Legion, I still had some delusions that I could write fanfic, or at least expansion concepts.
Had some ideas: shake up the factions by introducing e.g. Naaru and other Light-associated beings offering help against the Burning Legion, so the Paladin-focused races, Humans and Dwarves, Blood Elves, Draenei and a good chunk of the Tauren would form a new faction, with the Orcs, Trolls, Night Elves and most Tauren going "fuck no" (particularly the Orcs not wanting to submit to yet another cosmic force) and forming an independent faction.
Another was an expansion hook that some alien empire would sent envoys, they had also driven back the Legion from their world, but were quasi-fascist lawful evil, coercing the faction leaders to comply via hostages and other methods, and there'd be a player choice to either side with these oppressors, or join the resistance, all while the Legion is already invading.

[BaumanKing]

Are you forgetting who attacked first? The Orcs invaded from a whole another planet and then Turalyon and co pushed them back and entered their own world to end things for good. They didn't go there to "save" anyone except the people on Azeroth, and they basically sacrificed themselves.

A crystal chandelier appeared to Turalyon in a vision and urged him to proceed with his decision to "put an end to the orcs' evil forever". Turalyon then agreed that he could not allow the Horde to invade other worlds. His motivation was precisely to save other worlds:

"We have to stop them," Turalyon stated firmly. "We can't let other, innocent worlds have this unleashed on them. It ends here. On Azeroth. No one else should have to suffer as we have. The Light shines on other worlds than ours, and it needs our help. It will have it."

"Sir . . . why don't we just let them go? If they have fresh worlds to take, maybe they'll just go away and leave us alone."
"Even if it were that simple, we can't let that happen. Don't you understand?" Turalyon said. "We have to stop them. We can't save our world at the expense of countless innocent lives!"

Beyond the Dark Portal, chapter 13

And how exactly is Geya'rah to blame for her... Wait, I was going to say "father's sins", but Duratan was an honorable man who opposed the Iron Horde. You know what in the end happened to him, right?