Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Makabreska]

Yes, but there's only one of these guys who has two solid short stories to his name and is consistently hilarious in every appearance, and that's the guy we'll likely be perforating in 11.1 to ensure no vessels that dont' carry muh honor taint the Horde.

Hilarious or not, he epitomes all the worst traits of goblin race. I wont cry over him.

[Ersula]

Few? Hello? That is my entire point. What are you even talking about.

Because you're saying the fact they're not doing beta invites in waves means TWW has fewer pre-orders than MoP. When in actuality the extremely overpriced bundle that actually gets TWW beta access is like >1% of total TWW pre-orders.

Not in their wildest dreams would blizzard expect millions of people to play 90 dollars for an expansion.

Well 2 of the 3 Thalassian groups are aligned to Alliance.

You mean 2 of 4. Nightborne are more highborne than high elves.

[Cheezits]

Hilarious or not, he epitomes all the worst traits of goblin race. I wont cry over him.

But the fact that goblins are/were based on shitty business archetypes was fun and interesting...

[Hitei]

I'm just quite sure that peeps wanting to play Beta are in minority and that was never the main drive for Epic version. And Blizz knows that.

I agree, but Blizzard also knows that they have to assume the safety net of many people wanting to log onto beta for a week, and that any give sales number will now be significantly inflated from beta announcement that includes "hey buy this edition and you're in", and they still felt comfortable going in this direction.

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Because you're saying the fact they're not doing beta invites in waves means TWW has fewer pre-orders than MoP. When in actuality the extremely overpriced bundle that actually gets TWW beta access is like >1% of total TWW pre-orders.

No, I'm not. Please actually bother to read the conversation that you're replying to.

[Super Dickmann]

Hilarious or not, he epitomes all the worst traits of goblin race. I wont cry over him.

He most represents the goblin race, who are, deliberately, meant to be egotistical conman gremlins who blow themselves and others up for cash. He had a unique dynamic with his fellow leaders. They managed to add meat to him in both his Pandaria short story and even in the quest where you help him with the G-Mod over in BFA. Gazlowe is a nicer dude, but then so is everyone in the Horde except Geya'rah. A faction consisting entirely of nice guys and races that coalesce around being nice guys in exactly the same way handicaps the main strengths of the setting.

[Lahis]

You mean 2 of 4. Nightborne are more highborne than high elves.

Thalassians are High Elves.

Nightborne are closer Kaldorei Highborne than thalassian High elves.

[milkmustache]

Speaking of Geyarah, I would much prefer the Maghar character to be a modernized soldier and engineer that actually leans into what made the Iron Horde special than.... mean brown orc wearing heritage armor.

I can't help but feel like Blizzard just has an issue writing main racial leaders if this is the case, because a lot of the smaller Mag'har characters do well with this, and the same goes for other racial groups and their side characters.

[Ersula]

Thalassians are High Elves.

Nightborne are closer Kaldorei Highborne than thalassian High elves.

Thalassian literally means Highborne. Tha = Highborne. Lassian = Elf.

And Nightborne society, Suramar, is the only modern elf civilization that actually predates the Sundering. That's as Highborne as it gets....besides perhaps, Naga.

[Makabreska]

He most represents the goblin race, who are, deliberately, meant to be egotistical conman gremlins who blow themselves and others up for cash.

If all gobbos were like him, the entire race would go extinct. Dude was full greed, selfishness and no inhibitions. Horde was trying to ally with Zanadalari while Gallywix was at Atal'Dazar, Zandalari sacred tombs, to rob the place and potentially sabotage the effort. Gazzlow is also greedy, but he knows where to put greed on hold and team up for a greater cause.

[Super Dickmann]

Speaking of Geyarah, I would much prefer the Maghar character to be a modernized soldier and engineer that actually leans into what made the Iron Horde special than.... mean brown orc wearing heritage armor.

Geya'rah personality-wise, as much she has it, is ideal in filling the Iron Horde-niche. That said, they badly need a mechanic character. As for her, she should be the one using the void - the Shadowmoon do it and it's entirely in keeping with both the Iron Horde skillset and with what'll be relevant for the plot.

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If all gobbos were like him, the entire race would go extinct. Dude was full greed, selfishness and no inhibitions. Horde was trying to ally with Zanadalari while Gallywix was at Atal'Dazar, Zandalari sacred tombs, to steal the gold and potentially sabotage the effort. Gazzlow is also greedy, but he knows where to put greed on hold and team up for a greater cause.

The latter would be the case if it would actually lead to conflict, which it doesn't. A character who fucks up and makes trouble with his allies results in conflict, which is the meat and potatoes of storytelling. If there is a target morality that everyone would be better if they adhered to, in WoW's case, non-denominational Anduinism, and any character and race, regardless of biological, cultural or historical factors has no issue adopting it, which as of several expansions they don't, then by having anyone be able to be anything, you have them all default to the best possible option - which is to be a blando nice dude. This is how we end up in the current state of affairs for every race, again, except the Mag'har, who are irrelevant, and Zandalari, who are off-screen.

[Dracullus]

Well 2 of the 3 Thalassian groups are aligned to Alliance.

If Void Elves split in even smaller 2 rebel groups both aligned with Alliance, you would say Ally has now 3:1 ratio? Pure numbers matter most.

But I don't want to discuss how % Horde are Thalassian. It was just ridiculous to me that non-Alliance Dwarf/Human faction expac is called for Alliance bias, yet Quel'Thanas expac is called neutral on same breath.

[Cheezits]

I can't help but feel like Blizzard just has an issue writing main racial leaders if this is the case, because a lot of the smaller Mag'har characters do well with this, and the same goes for other racial groups and their side characters.

Part of it is that the leaders have to be boring, but I also think part of it is that the Maghar were infinitely doomed to the BFA era "compromising" where they also had to hit the same notes of the MU Maghar that people (for whatever reason) also wanted. Hence why their race mount is a generic wolf and their racials are all about being Orcy Orcs instead of focusing on their unique background and culture. They racials should be about using guns and radios, not ancestors. Their mount should've been an iron star wheelie or some kind of motorcycle on steroids.

It doesn't really matter as they immediately pivoted to the engineer thing with their quests in BFA 8.1 but still, it kneecapped them a bit. I realize wish they would lean in more to the technology and their unique clans (Shadowmoon/Laughing Maw/BB). Now that the green orcs are being traditional again we can let these guys be modern.

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Geya'rah personality-wise, as much she has it, is ideal in filling the Iron Horde-niche. That said, they badly need a mechanic character. As for her, she should be the one using the void - the Shadowmoon do it and it's entirely in keeping with both the Iron Horde skillset and with what'll be relevant for the plot.

She definitely needs a SMC type minicouncil with trusted deputies and lieutenants. She is the token warsong generic orc so they could give her a Shadowmoon priestess, a Blackrock engineer, and a token laughing skull that does idk.

[Super Dickmann]

\She definitely needs a SMC type minicouncil with trusted deputies and lieutenants. She is the token warsong generic orc so they could give her a Shadowmoon priestess, a Blackrock engineer, and a token laughing skull that does idk.

I am all Council'd out, but for the Mag'har, it'd also mesh with their Iron Horde inspiration of having a Warlord for every clan. Years ago I wrote up a big post on this topic, the MU orc part is outdated, though I stand by most of it, but the Mag'har bit remains mostly current.

[milkmustache]

Part of it is that the leaders have to be boring, but I also think part of it is that the Maghar were infinitely doomed to the BFA era "compromising" where they also had to hit the same notes of the MU Maghar that people (for whatever reason) also wanted. Hence why their race mount is a generic wolf and their racials are all about being Orcy Orcs instead of focusing on their unique background and culture. They racials should be about using guns and radios, not ancestors. Their mount should've been an iron star wheelie or some kind of motorcycle on steroids.

It doesn't really matter as they immediately pivoted to the engineer thing with their quests in BFA 8.1 but still, it kneecapped them a bit. I realize wish they would lean in more to the technology and their unique clans (Shadowmoon/Laughing Maw/BB). Now that the green orcs are being traditional again we can let these guys be modern.

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She definitely needs a SMC type minicouncil with trusted deputies and lieutenants. She is the token warsong generic orc so they could give her a Shadowmoon priestess, a Blackrock engineer, and a token laughing skull that does idk.

I'm curious where the split with Geya'rah and Gorgonna is going to land. Will they continue to lean into Mag'har being just brown orcs, or will they look to emphasize the difference?

I realllly realllly hope we start to move away from this ambuigity and start to worldbuild with the factions more. Even just playing through Siege of Orgrimmar we see a lot of really cool pieces of world building, the factions acting together while still being at odds (wayyyy higher odds than we will ever return to IMO). It's fun to see it not be completely singular and harmonious, while also not being full bloodshed and war.

[Kiivar86]

The Rootlands have a name, have a very obvious location (the giant open space on the map that the roots are coming out of) and the roots are already narratively tied to the Old God blood.

Lets not pull another Amirdrassil pls.
When it looks like a duck, mentioned to be a duck and is conveniontly placed exactly where you would expect a duck to be, then it is in fact a duck.

Oh Rootlands is the actual name? I must've missed that, where's it called that? I figured based on the name it was a nickname users came up with.

That said, I am expecting it to be an area.

[Gurahk]

Gazlowe sucks compared to Gallywix and the writers getting rid of Gallywix in BFA while now allowing Geyarah to still be an asshole is mindboggling.

They finally made Gallywix likable and then kicked him out. Crazy stuff.

Speaking of Geyarah, I would much prefer the Maghar character to be a modernized soldier and engineer that actually leans into what made the Iron Horde special than.... mean brown orc wearing heritage armor.

A new blackrock character, or a repurposed one (remember the ship guy from 6.2?) would be great. Could also serve to give the Horde its own Deeprun Tram in the form of a train.

Speaking of, I've seen some people deny that the Mag'har use the Iron Horde tech, yet we've seen it in action in BfA as not only part of the allied race questline, but also during the war effort (although only in the form of world quests)

[Hitei]

I am all Council'd out, but for the Mag'har, it'd also mesh with their Iron Horde inspiration of having a Warlord for every clan. Years ago I wrote up a big post on this topic, the MU orc part is outdated, though I stand by most of it, but the Mag'har bit remains mostly current.

I think that at this point it's hard to justify most races and factions not being council based. They're not stupid, they're (socially) largely beyond the feudal era and into to the period where populism should be the default, and nearly every race in the game has either had to deal with living under tyrannical monarchy, or had to fight for survival against a group or race controlled by a tyrant, so the idea that most people are still open to a single person calling all the shots is questionable.

[Gurahk]

To be honest, I just don't expect any Mag'har development anytime soon. I got my hopes up during the Orc heritage questline because of how much it seemed like they cared about the different characters and clans, only for it to drop again when I learnt that the person in charge of the questline quit Blizzard shortly after.

[Super Dickmann]

I think that at this point it's hard to justify most races and factions not being council based. They're not stupid, they're (socially) largely beyond the feudal era and into to the period where populism should be the default, and nearly every race in the game has either had to deal with living under tyrannical monarchy, or had to fight for survival against a group or race controlled by a tyrant, so the idea that most people are still open to a single person calling all the shots is questionable.

Untrue, the most successful and popular leaders in-game are all either divine-right monarchs ruling by dint of bloodline (Anduin, Jaina) or ones who begin with an imperfect system in elections but then transition to absolute monarchy (Mekkatorque). But even if the narrative didn't make clear that the only way the savages overcame themselves would be by accepting the wisdom of a hereditary ruler (Anduin, Calia), leadership structures are only partly a function of technology, and just as much reflect local social values, with personalistic systems both democratic or not having a big role in real life, let alone in a fantasy world where some people can mine rocks pretty good and others are twenty thousand year old prophetic demigods.

[Grazrug]

Gazlowe is the actual Horde goblin dating back to the RTS games.

Gazlowe is a traitor and neutral. Gallywix is the gigachad of all Goblins.