Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Foolicious]

Honestly I think that Thrall's loss of connection will not be a retcon of Shadowlands but will instead be directly tied to whatever is interfering with Azeroth/causing the Radiant Song.

It is still really odd that Magni got cut off from Azeroth, including the Song, and that feels tied directly to the elements acting wonky as well. I wouldn't be surprised if they have Thrall say that he did really have the elements back for a second but they drifted away again.

It's still weird that they went with that storyline. We just come from an expansion that dealt with a cult made up of all kinds of different races that converted to shamanism and could use the elements just fine. Seems like a very thrall specific problem imo.

[BaumanKing]

It would carry some unfortunate implications if they tried to communicate "queer-coded" through "by choice, physically suffused with a fundamentally alien and unnatural power that poses an objective and tangible danger to those around her".

Yikes. You are absolutely right, this would be quite problematic. Thanks for pointing this out.

Yeah, she has a husband and a son, that is the only fact worth mentioning.

Sure. She would rather spend a thousand years with a space mummy than with her "husband". It is quite telling if you ask me.

Her leaving her husband just to turn lesbian just because you seem to hate men sounds pretty toxic.

Nonsense. I don't hate all men, I just find men like Turalyon outdated and therefore dangerous. And you know this, because we have discussed this several times. There is absolutely nothing toxic about it. And I'm not the only one here who thinks so.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Is there some sort of implication that Xal'atath will use the Dark Heart on the player characters/main NPCs?

Knowing what we do about its ability to absorb essence, her statement of "Your fury will be mine" feels a bit more literal. Perhaps that will have something to help usher in Midnight?

Alleria said it turned power directly into void no? It could be that we will have an Ashara esc right but instead of killing her we and the major characters unload on her and sure just turns all out magic into void which is what kicks of midnight.

[Teriz]

.
Because evoker is based on one singular dragon character rather than an entire dragon culture, right?

Well the difference is that there are multiple dragon franchise characters in Warcraft, which is why three of them showed up in Heroes of the Storm. You didn’t notice that the hero trees in the Evoker class were aligned with those three dragon heroes from HotS? Hint, hint.

Meanwhile, there is only one tech-based franchise character, and that character is Gazlowe.

They'd have to decide if they want to make a tech based class' abilities more kitchy or sleek, but I'd bet they'd try to find some middle ground that fits every race. I mean, the Earthen tech looks more sleek & elegant than even the Elven aesthetics. Did you see the Diamond Mech mount? I wouldn't put it closer to gnomes & goblins on that spectrum.

Well that’s the thing; Mech mounts in of themselves come from the Goblin aesthetic. They come from the Goblin Shredder unit way back in WC3.

That said, that mech suit is an interesting mix of Draenei and Gnomish design.

[Cheezits]

Is there some sort of implication that Xal'atath will use the Dark Heart on the player characters/main NPCs?

Knowing what we do about its ability to absorb essence, her statement of "Your fury will be mine" feels a bit more literal. Perhaps that will have something to help usher in Midnight?

I think it was kind of a hint that Xal seeks Alleria's body/soul to puppet around. Even though she is speaking about a group of people, the fury only really lines up with Alleria.

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It's still weird that they went with that storyline. We just come from an expansion that dealt with a cult made up of all kinds of different races that converted to shamanism and could use the elements just fine. Seems like a very thrall specific problem imo.

We are two for two on old Azeroth avatars (Thrall, Magni) being currently cut off from their old powers so there may be something in regards to that. Thrall is getting the Song so that's a step above Magni, but he is still nerfed from his Cata powerset.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Sure. She would rather spend a thousand years with a space mummy than with her "husband". It is quite telling if you ask me.

She spends most of that time with her husband though with the actual break down being like 300 years with him, 500 looking for locus walker, getting some basic lessons from him and then going back to her husbands and choosing to stay with him even if she needs to be locked up to do so for the rest of the time.

[Teriz]

I argued it with you in pre-announcement times, but you seem to be on track.

I do kind of lean towards Articifer over Tinker, but it could go either way. The Earthen being far more technologically advanced than I anticipated and a probable Undermine makes it feel like a no brainer, opposed to 13.0.

I highly doubt it, buuuut.. I dunno. It could be.

I think they’re saving a new class for 13.0 if I’m being honest. I believe they want 2 expansions to settle Augmentation and the hero talents before introducing a new class. Also there’s Mimiron who can tie all of these different techs together under one roof.

The thing I can't land on is if they go race agnostic and give it to all, or argue the Druid/Paladin side with special art and give it to some.

Off the bat I'd think Goblins, Gnomes, Draenei, Lightforged, Blood Elves, Mag'har, Dwarves (all 3), Nightborne? There'd be a faction imbalance I think.

I still believe you’re looking at Goblin, Vulpera, Earthen, Gnome, and MGnome. Not only does that even out the factions, but I don’t think they’re going to push a tech class far beyond its core hero concept.

[Khaza-R]

Nonsense. I don't hate all men, I just find men like Turalyon outdated and therefore dangerous. And you know this, because we have discussed this several times. There is absolutely nothing toxic about it. And I'm not the only one here who thinks so.

Its crazy how obessively triggered you get from a character just from their skin tone and literally nothing else. I would almost think its some clever satire on how the WoW community overracts to...well everything. But that would be giving you way too much credit.

[Nathanyel]

Souls didn’t get a say in where they went and not enough family’s were together, that’s about it. The maw wasn’t involved yet.

They actually do, one of the early Bastion Campaign quests implies that before the Anima Drought, you were free to fail or abort your training as a Kyrian and return to Oribos, to presumably either get assigned to another Covenant, or go to your religion's afterlife.
That fire slug's mate couldn't been elsewhere for just about any reason, Zovaal just told Sylvanas that it wasn't either one's choice.

The point of this topic is why does the artistry frame some characters as villains while other characters with the same motives as good.

I keep saying, a TV/Netflix series in that style would be very successful.

I mean, it is a belief. A very obvious one that any reasonnable being should have, but still a belief. The issue is that npcs ingame having the same reasonning as us irl on this matter make the game universe a tad bit too realistic, while it's supposed to be an escape from reality.

It's too realistic that so far, evil capitalists have rarely met their just end. Monte changing Goblin society for the better IS the utopic fantasy.
Still, that story hook will likely not end with every Goblin cartel adopting these more sustainable methods, I expect only the Bilgewater (which were already reformed by Gazlowe) and, to a lesser extent, Noggenfogger's operations to be affected. That contrast in their society might play into future story.

On short story - its too much of socialism here to me.

Is that even Socialism? Sounds more like Capitalism used to be, before every rich guy was only looking at the short term profits, destroying companies and other resources just to squeeze out some quick money.

so the prepatch date kinda got called by an addon

all the things when used in remix shows the patch that removes thecremix items as 11.0 so preoatch when remix ends and launch a month after

That's not ATT calling it, they're going off the common assumption that the end of Remix coincides with the release of the prepatch.

[Nymrohd]

Also have to say, Xal'atath "tempting" Alleria to being queer would be affirming all the stereotypes of predatory gays and lesbians like a movie from 50+ years ago . . . Seriously I very much dismiss these obsessions but I find it even worse that there is no media literacy about how queer coding has mostly been used AGAINST us.

[Xilurm]

Nonsense. I don't hate all men, I just find men like Turalyon outdated and therefore dangerous. And you know this, because we have discussed this several times. There is absolutely nothing toxic about it. And I'm not the only one here who thinks so.

Yeah, you haven't really said why you think like that though? Dangerous is a really strong word in this context. Is him being a "white saviour" your only excuse?

If he chooses not to try and save "indigenous" species as you say, then he's just awful, because if you can save someone but choose not to, you might as well be killing them yourself.

If Blizzard chooses to use someone else to save them, then wouldn't that mean it wasn't his choice in the first place? So how exactly is he "dangerous"? And outdated how? Because he's a strong man?

[Alanar]

That is something i noticed in the trailer. Thrall has connection to 3 elements, fire, water and earth, but no air. And his story in TWW seems very much focused on the storm raiders and thus, the element of air. Might be a hint at why he struggles. But i can't say what that hint is pointing at.

I mean, thats all dandy, but the point is that he still struggeling since cata. I honestly dont even care what hes problem is anymore honestly. I am saying this as a long standing horde player and seen every version of him. Actually he shoulsnt even be in tww if you ask me, hes story is done or should be by now.

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Also have to say, Xal'atath "tempting" Alleria to being queer would be affirming all the stereotypes of predatory gays and lesbians like a movie from 50+ years ago . . . Seriously I very much dismiss these obsessions but I find it even worse that there is no media literacy about how queer coding has mostly been used AGAINST us.

What are you even on about?

[Ersula]

That said, that mech suit is an interesting mix of Draenei and Gnomish design.

It's an Earthen Mech tho. It says so in the description. It even resembles the various dwarf heritage armors.

Well the difference is that there are multiple dragon franchise characters in Warcraft, which is why three of them showed up in Heroes of the Storm. You didn’t notice that the hero trees in the Evoker class were aligned with those three dragon heroes from HotS? Hint, hint.

Meanwhile, there is only one tech-based franchise character, and that character is Gazlowe.

Except none of those playable heroes corresponds to Augmentation. Destruction corresponds to Deathwing. Preservation has Alexstrasza & Chromie's abilities. The question was if a new class can pull from the larger lore beyond a 30 year old rts & a dead moba, and clearly it can & will.

With hero talents it would be way too myopic to base a tech class on just goblin & gnomes technology. I think if they came with mech & mini-bot customization in a "Goblin, Gnome, Forsaken, Elf, Draenei, Generic Alliance & Generic Horde" options it would cover everything. For instance;

Bruiser Artificer - Tanking Spec
Melee combat using heavy prosthesis you have to repair in real-time

Combustion Artificer - Damage Spec
Long-range gun-based combat with unique ammunition cells

Rehabilitation Artificer - Healing Spec
Spray your allies with restorative salvo & deploy reflexive energy shielding

Hydraulics - Bruiser & Combustion Hero Spec
Pilot a Mech that expands your range & durability

Nanotechnology - Combustion & Rehabilitation Hero Spec
Spread grey goo that that can cause chain reactions to heal your party or damage enemies

Animus - Bruiser & Rehabilitation Hero Spec
Siphon strength from enemies & deploy autonomous robots to support your party

[huth]

They actually do, one of the early Bastion Campaign quests implies that before the Anima Drought, you were free to fail or abort your training as a Kyrian and return to Oribos, to presumably either get assigned to another Covenant, or go to your religion's afterlife.
That fire slug's mate couldn't been elsewhere for just about any reason, Zovaal just told Sylvanas that it wasn't either one's choice.

Let's not forget that we only saw a tiny subset of the actual number of afterlifes either. Mainly those that were deliberately pre-created and are critical to the proper function of the realm. Add then that things weren't really working as normal during our visit first due the drought, later because of Zovaal's other machinations creating a state of crisis.

And we have little to no reason to believe that Zovaal wouldn't lie if he thought it benefitted him.

[Nymrohd]

Yeah, you haven't really said why you think like that though? Dangerous is a really strong word in this context. Is him being a "white saviour" your only excuse?

If he chooses not to try and save "indigenous" species as you say, then he's just awful, because if you can save someone but choose not to, you might as well be killing them yourself.

If Blizzard chooses to use someone else to save them, then wouldn't that mean it wasn't his choice in the first place? So how exactly is he "dangerous"? And outdated how? Because he's a strong man?

We are seeing both Horde and Alliance train the Earthen for war anyhow. That's not being saviours, that's teaching them how to protect their own. So the intent is clear.

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Let's not forget that we only saw a tiny subset of the actual number of afterlifes either. Mainly those that were deliberately pre-created and are critical to the proper function of the realm. Add then that things weren't really working as normal during our visit first due the drought, later because of Zovaal's other machinations creating a state of crisis.

And we have little to no reason to believe that Zovaal wouldn't lie if he thought it benefitted him.

I'd say those aren't even afterlives. Those are just the functional realms that protect the afterlives. We know at least Revendreth's purpose is to give souls a chance at redemption so they can end up in a proper afterlife after all. We know they are out there, we just never get to them beyond the Other Side (which sucks).

[Teriz]

It's an Earthen Mech tho. It says so in the description. It even resembles the various dwarf heritage armors.

I'm aware. I'm simply pointing out that if you look at the design of that mech, there are LF Warframe elements incorporated into it, along with clear Dwarves attributes.

Except none of those playable heroes corresponds to Augmentation. Destruction corresponds to Deathwing. Preservation has Alexstrasza & Chromie's abilities.

Deathwing (Black)= Scalecommander, Alexstraza (Red) = Flameshaper, Chromie (Bronze) = Chrono Warden.

The question was if a new class can pull from the larger lore beyond a 30 year old rts & a dead moba, and clearly it can & will.

With hero talents it would be way too myopic to base a tech class on just goblin & gnomes technology. I think if they came with mech & mini-bot customization in a "Goblin, Gnome, Forsaken, Elf, Draenei, Generic Alliance & Generic Horde" options it would cover everything. For instance;

It certainly can, but I think people tend to overextend exactly how Blizzard constructs a class. Look at Demon Hunters for example; Using your argument here, we should have Nightborne and Void Elf Demon Hunters and a 3rd spec, yet we don't. We don't because while WoW and WC in general expands concepts beyond their original point, classes tend to remain rather close to their core idea from the franchise character they're based upon.

Thus, the technology class isn't going to be much different from the only tech-based franchise character in Warcraft; Monte Gazlowe.

[Eldryth]

They actually do, one of the early Bastion Campaign quests implies that before the Anima Drought, you were free to fail or abort your training as a Kyrian and return to Oribos, to presumably either get assigned to another Covenant, or go to your religion's afterlife.
That fire slug's mate couldn't been elsewhere for just about any reason, Zovaal just told Sylvanas that it wasn't either one's choice.

There was also that stuff Danuser brought up in an interview about Durotan's afterlife which clashes with everything the Jailor claimed.

Supposedly he's in some eternal hunting ground with his wolves, and Draka can join him there after she finishes her duties in Maldraxxus. So if that's accurate, not only can families be together to begin with, but you can also change afterlives later on to join them and even retire from important roles.

[Nymrohd]

There was also that stuff Danuser brought up in an interview about Durotan's afterlife which clashes with everything the Jailor claimed.

Supposedly he's in some eternal hunting ground with his wolves, and Draka can join him there after she finishes her duties in Maldraxxus. So if that's accurate, not only can families be together to begin with, but you can also change afterlives later on to join them and even retire from important roles.

I think it's clear Zovaal just lied constantly. He knew he could arrange for some of his "predictions" to come true and he was manipulating someone that was clearly suicidal.

[Ersula]

Deathwing (Black)= Scalecommander, Alexstraza (Red) = Flameshaper, Chromie (Bronze) = Chrono Warden.

But none of those hero talent trees share abilities or talents with those HoTS characters. For example Scalecommander isn't about Deathwing: It has a talent that references the Black dragonflight but everything else in that tree is Azure & Ruby themed. So they're not based on Hots characters, they're based on the larger WoW lore, like I said.

It certainly can, but I think people tend to overextend exactly how Blizzard constructs a class. Look at Demon Hunters for example; Using your argument here, we should have Nightborne and Void Elf Demon Hunters and a 3rd spec, yet we don't. We don't because while WoW and WC in general expands concepts beyond their original point, classes tend to remain rather close to their core idea from the franchise character they're based upon.

Because Demon Hunter is a Hero Class. If this prospective class is a "hero class" it's probably going to be very specific when it comes to customization, but if its supposed to be a normal class (like you said) it has to be more general. Especially when they said they intend all non-hero-classes to be eventually available to all races.

I think it's clear Zovaal just lied constantly. He knew he could arrange for some of his "predictions" to come true and he was manipulating someone that was clearly suicidal.

Was Danuser even in charge of anything? Or ever knew what he was talking about? Inconsistencies & contradictions everywhere. Because the Quest narrative lady already explained Durotan's soul was within his weapon carried by Thrall, consistent with existing Orc spirituality: Which also set up Saurfang & Varian reaching out for Anduin from within Shalamayne.

I guess it makes sense WoW lore is created on the fly by several people who don't talk to each other.

[Joshuaj]

I think it's clear Zovaal just lied constantly. He knew he could arrange for some of his "predictions" to come true and he was manipulating someone that was clearly suicidal.

People tend to forget that the Jailer is quite literally Warcraft's version of the Devil. Ya know, someone who's infamous for their lying?