Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Teriz]

Alliance:

Humans
Dwarves
Gnomes
Draenei
Lightforged
Dark Irons
Mechagnomes

Horde:

Orcs
Goblins
Blood Elves
Forsaken
Vulpera
Mag’har
Nightborne

Neutral:

Earthen

There’s your Tinkers/Articifers.

You should limit it to Gnomes, Goblins, MGnomes, Vulpera and Earthen. If you have a dedicated Artificer spec, maybe expand to Draenei and Nightborne.

Beyond that, you ruin the concept by making it too generic.

[Vakir]

But in the context of how the idea was introduced, they had every reason to just make generic Tyr's guard mounts. 10.2 came with new generic forms for Druid. Nobody actually uses the racial forms anymore. It would be insane to make racial forms now.

And yet they will still do that. Same way they're too afraid to change the Human and Blood Elf default chargers despite that nobody uses them and there's a glyph for the prior one. (No, the Highlord ones are not 1:1 HD recreations and the red recolor doesn't invoke the Thalassian one at all)

It's also why they go extra hard on new druid forms even if there's no guarantee of their popularity. Frankly, I do still use Zandalari forms, they're fucking dinosaurs.

Blizzard is gonna do it no matter how unnecessary it is. Look at the implementation of Earthen. Could've just given them dwarven chargers, maybe slightly different dwarven totems, and didn't need to justify hair as being metallic wire. But they did, even if the latter looks like hot garbage.

[Ersula]

You should limit it to Gnomes, Goblins, MGnomes, Vulpera and Earthen. If you have a dedicated Artificer spec, maybe expand to Draenei and Nightborne.

Beyond that, you ruin the concept by making it too generic.

Forsaken watching Vulpera shooting themselves in the face with the sproingbanger because they have zero experience with technology:

[Cheezits]

And yet they will still do that. Same way they're too afraid to change the Human and Blood Elf default chargers despite that nobody uses them and there's a glyph for the prior one. (No, the Highlord ones are not 1:1 HD recreations and the red recolor doesn't invoke the Thalassian one at all)

They aren't afraid to do it, they just haven't seen a reason that fit into an expansion and that they could profit from. Dwarf pallies didn't get anything unique until Dark Iron paladins appeared, and they needed a cool pally model to further sell them.

Considering thalassian horses will be a thing in Midnight (plus potential Belf/Helf paladins rework), and Humans/Forsaken could get a new charger at the same time, they are just sitting on it.

[Jolly Roger]

barring the dragons
every race can be a warrior
every race can be a monk
every* race can be a DK
no reason every race couldnt be taught how to press a big red button


prepare for all the posts from ppl who just got into beta going "my dps sucks gonna reroll" or "this skill works how it says it should...wtf blizz" and the "whats the best spec for X"

[Vakir]

They aren't afraid to do it, they just haven't seen a reason that fit into an expansion and that they could profit from.

https://warcraftmounts.com/unusedloo...ery.php#Horses

There's a datamined new color pattern of the Felsteed from as far back as BFA that remains unused. Alongside many other easy variations.

Blizzard has flat out gone on record that they're going to always defer to adding new things over changing old ones out of hurting prior designs that hold nostalgia after Cataclysm. It's why we have horses with 20 year old graphics that don't have color equivalents implemented from BFA even with the justification of their updates. It's why you could still toggle on old character models prior to animation updates, even though I'm betting less than 0.1% ever did so. It's why people are angry about the new Four Horsemen mounts invoking the Mawsworn chargers even though it makes thematic sense after SL.

A Thalassian/Human update is possible but it's either going to be pursued with immense caution as the default or will more likely be another addition similar to the Highlord chargers.

Same thing with the ridiculous assertion (though not yours) that "nobody uses racial druid forms" and "they made new default ones in 10.2." Yes, people do, and no, they didn't - you need to be max rank and progressing through 10.2 content to even obtain them other than the new Moonkin.

[Makorus]

barring the dragons
every race can be a warrior
every race can be a monk
every* race can be a DK
no reason every race couldnt be taught how to press a big red button


prepare for all the posts from ppl who just got into beta going "my dps sucks gonna reroll" or "this skill works how it says it should...wtf blizz" and the "whats the best spec for X"

The only race that doesn't make sense not to be all-race so far is Evoker, for obvious reasons.

There is no reasons an Undead can't be taught to talk to the elements, or a Gnome can't be a Paladin.

[Teriz]

barring the dragons
every race can be a warrior
every race can be a monk
every* race can be a DK
no reason every race couldnt be taught how to press a big red button

Everybody can't be Tony Stark.

That's essentially what a Tinker is; The fantasy/medieval version of Iron Man.

[Raetary]

Beyond that, you ruin the concept by making it too generic.

The idea to restrict a class that has no inherent magical or cultural restrictions, that any person can learn by just visiting a vocational school, is utterly fucking moronic.

The class is generic.
it's literally just being a combat engineer.

And lol at your restrictions.
Completely ignoring Human/Forsaken and Dwarven engineers, Mag'har/Orc industrialists, treating Draenei and Elven artifice as secondary.

No thanks.

[Makorus]

The idea to restrict a class that has no inherent magical or cultural restrictions, that any person can learn by just visiting a vocational school, is utterly fucking moronic.

The class is generic.
it's literally just being a combat engineer.

And lol at your restrictions.
Completely ignoring Human/Forsaken and Dwarven engineers, Mag'har/Orc industrialists, treating Draenei and Elven artifice as secondary.

No thanks.

No, you don't understand, the race that creates literal spaceships shouldn't be able to be tinkers.

Or the race that creates Iron Stars.

[Avikur]

Does anyone have beta showing on their launcher yet?

[Eldryth]

Yeah, those restrictions would completely ruin the class concept for me. And the fact that all these types of technology are so different make it hard to see it working out well- everyone would want to use different kinds of tech. Wouldn't want to use wacky Goblin/Gnome tech myself even if I could do it on another race, but Titan or Draenei tech would make for an amazing class. There's only two ways I could see it going well- ideally we should be able to choose what kind of racial tech to use, but if we're stuck with just one, then it should be Titan tech and tie into TLT's story.

And I see Teriz is back, pretending that a Void class is covered despite that being debunked and explained to him repeatedly in the class threads. We have one single Shadow spec- despite Shadow being under the Void, there's a massive difference between the two. And as of TWW, Priest will be getting one single Void effect, and a passive one at that (Entropic Rift- if you really want to stretch it, you could also count the new Void Blast, but that's just a generic blast with the Void color scheme). The Void itself is all about astral bodies and forces like stars, comets, supernovas, black holes, etc., usually explosive, with a blue color scheme. See Sarkareth, or the Void skills added in Remix and Plunderstorm. I mained a Priest for the last two seasons, I saw for myself that Shadow has absolutely nothing in common with that. It's fine to argue that you'd prefer something else (I myself would probably prefer Artificer if it's well done and not just Gnome/Goblin nonsense, though I see Midnight as the only real chance to get a Void class), but it's blatantly false to say that it's something we already have, in any form.

[Hitei]

Everybody can't be Tony Stark.

"...by the way, please ignore the dozens of other people who have put on and used Iron Man suits quite well".

Not sure you could have picked a more hilariously poignant example of why you're completely wrong if you tried.

[Teriz]

The idea to restrict a class that has no inherent magical or cultural restrictions, that any person can learn by just visiting a vocational school, is utterly fucking moronic.

The class is generic.
it's literally just being a combat engineer.

A class with unique models for each race would be rather far from generic, and you get that with a restricted Tinker class which would have unique mech forms, summons, class mounts, etc. for each race.

It's the reason the Druid class for example doesn't feel generic, since each Druid race gets something unique.

You lose that uniqueness when every race gets the same thing, because there's no way you can give every single race unique mechs, mounts, and summons.

And lol at your restrictions.
Completely ignoring Human/Forsaken and Dwarven engineers, Mag'har/Orc industrialists, treating Draenei and Elven artifice as secondary.

No thanks.

Yes, sometimes you have to ignore certain things for the sake of class cohesion. See the DH and Monk classes for prime examples of this.

[Vakir]

Teriz is just a fan of terrible races and even when a class comes out that reflects his desire, he's on board and excited for a twink looking version that's poorly received and implemented.

It's like the living personification of Homer excited with a bunch of XFL merch.

Technological ability should be one of THE most forefront generic concepts.

[Marlamin]

Does anyone have beta showing on their launcher yet?

Licenses have not been added to accounts just yet.

[Teriz]

Teriz is just a fan of terrible races and even when a class comes out that reflects his desire, he's on board and excited for a twink looking version that's poorly received and implemented.

It's like the living personification of Homer excited with a bunch of XFL merch.

Technological ability should be one of THE most forefront generic concepts.

When people say they want a Warcraft Tinker, what do you think they envision in their head?

The concept has been Goblin centric since before WoW even existed. The concept returned to prominence because Mekkatorque's cinematic on Broken Shore, and it's back again because of Gazlowe and a Goblin raid in TWW, so what a tech-themed class concept entails really shouldn't be a mystery to anyone. In other words, it's rather obvious which way Blizzard is going to go with this, and if you have some weird issue with Goblins and Gnomes, you're going to be disappointed.

- - - Updated - - -

And I see Teriz is back, pretending that a Void class is covered despite that being debunked and explained to him repeatedly in the class threads. We have one single Shadow spec- despite Shadow being under the Void, there's a massive difference between the two. And as of TWW, Priest will be getting one single Void effect, and a passive one at that (Entropic Rift- if you really want to stretch it, you could also count the new Void Blast, but that's just a generic blast with the Void color scheme). The Void itself is all about astral bodies and forces like stars, comets, supernovas, black holes, etc., usually explosive, with a blue color scheme. See Sarkareth, or the Void skills added in Remix and Plunderstorm. I mained a Priest for the last two seasons, I saw for myself that Shadow has absolutely nothing in common with that. It's fine to argue that you'd prefer something else (I myself would probably prefer Artificer if it's well done and not just Gnome/Goblin nonsense, though I see Midnight as the only real chance to get a Void class), but it's blatantly false to say that it's something we already have, in any form.

So what you're saying is that Blizzard should create a Void class that has the Entropic rift and Void Blast abilities of a Priest and the Comet, Star, and Supernova abilities of Mages? That's the thing, Blizzard had to work out a "cosmic" void concept between Arcane mages and Balance Druids, and what Shadow Priests are getting in TWW is pretty much the maximum you could go without stepping on the toes of other specs.

[Vakir]

When people say they want a Warcraft Tinker, what do you think they envision in their head?

I don't care and didn't read the rest.

Nobody envisioned Horde paladins or Alliance shaman either. Nobody envisioned Warlocks with Meta until it was a thing before DHs. Nobody envisioned DKs that weren't fallen paladins, baked into WC3 lore, unless they were talking about the orc souls in corpses from the Second War. Nobody envisioned a lot of things.

They're not attaching this only still hypothetical class to 80% of races that nobody enjoys playing. DHs are the exception that prove the rule by being attached to the most popular - and even then, Draenei and Orcs are very desired.

Even if your accuracy average wasn't bush league, your taste is still in the dirt. Nobody will ever play the lame filler race, even if they're forced to. You're alone.

[Jolly Roger]

Everybody can't be Tony Stark.

That's essentially what a Tinker is; The fantasy/medieval version of Iron Man.

everyone cant be blessed by 4 celestial beings yet we have all the monks

[Vakir]

everyone cant be blessed by 4 celestial beings yet we have all the monks

It's OK, this is taking place in the logical mindscape in which, I cannot stress this enough, apparently to them Chen Stormstout isn't a monk.