Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

Don't forget that, if the DF structure is followed, we will have a patch that is dedicated to a plot important megadungeon.

I think they are going to follow the DF structure VERY carefully, because if there really is a goblin raid (not a dungeon) it will likely be a plot detour and not the main plot. This is exactly what happened with Sarkareth and Aberrus vs DOTI. Even if people complained, more people do dungeons than raids, so I can see them continuing to do this "the middle story is tied to the dungeon while the middle raid is less important" plot structure. We also just got a lot of goblin/venture co necklaces and rings added in the icons so there will be something giving us a variety of geat.

I doubt we are getting three zones, but we did get three zones added through patches in DF even if one was reused starting zone/withheld from launch. Considering rootlands was on the dev map it could be the forbidden reach equivalent of "developed at launch, unlocked in a patch" while there are two new separate areas introduced as well (Undermine and wherever the Ethereal Raid is). But we will see! I think the map points to Rootlands and Undermine as the big empty areas are tied logically to where the Harronir and Venture Co are (VC are at the bottom of Ringing Deeps and west of Azj Kahet). If the Ethereal Raid is Underground Silithus it wouldn't be on the KA map at all which checks out. And why have all that space in the Undermine area if it's just a raid?

TLDR- Rootlands, Undermine and Ethereals will be divvied up into three major patches but the megadungeon needs to be taken into consideration unless it is scrapped (unlikely imo)

Also I personally don't believe the Ethereal Raid is actually on Karesh but is just the codename for a raid on the World Soul where the main theme is Ethereals, to hype up their greater presence in Midnight. Its simpler than calling it Coreraid or Azerothraid.

[Ielenia]

The Harronir are from somewhere we are not currently seeing, but which is evidently close if not literally bordering the areas we do have.
There are Freysworn earthen who confirm that Elun'ahir used to be where the Isle of Dorn is now.
There is an area in the tunnels between Hallowfall and Azj'kahet where you can see giant roots covering an entrance that would in theory lead to a zone conveniently perfectly situated in the currently unused space on the world map.

All these unsubtle hints points to a patch zone that we refer to as the Rootlands, seeing as that is a name that has been floating around TWW datamining.

Personally I think we are going to see the Rootlands invaded by the Venture company or some other Goblin faction led by Gallywix. This will then lead us to an Undermine raid.
I base this on the combination of Rootlands as a zone, along with the heavy hints towards Goblins and their polluting ways.

If what you said is true, then the most likely scenario is that there is no "undermine raid", but actually the 'goblin raid' datamined is just going to be an assault on the Venture Company's base within the Rootlands, instead of having us travel all the way through Azeroth to undermine for just a raid seemingly unrelated to the story being told.

[Teriz]

The rootlands are absolutely major patch content I feel.
Especially with the setup involving the roots coming all the way back to DF.
Would be weird to set something up an xpac in advance just to have it be .5 content.

The theory of the venture co. trying to harvest/exploit the roots for their resources & us having to stop them makes a lot of sense.
Far more sense than going to the Undermine. Story wise why would we need to go to the undermine?

There’s three problems;

1. We just finished a patch dealing with protecting a tree and its roots from an enemy trying to destroy it.

2. A raid taking place in Undermine (or a Goblin raid in general) doesn’t match up with a patch dealing with trees and root lands.

3. If the problem is in the root lands, why would we travel to Undermine for the raid?

As for why would we go to Undermine;

Gallywix, Azerite, possible void creature beneath Undermine, possible Titan complex beneath Undermine, securing Undermine as a location to visit for players, Undermins fitting the theme of the expansion, Gazlowe’s short story, etc.

[Cheezits]

There’s three problems;

1. We just finished a patch dealing with protecting a tree and its roots from an enemy trying to destroy it.

2. A raid taking place in Undermine (or a Goblin raid in general) doesn’t match up with a patch dealing with trees and root lands.

3. If the problem is in the root lands, why would we travel to Undermine for the raid?

As for why would we go to Undermine;

Gallywix, Azerite, possible void creature beneath Undermine, possible Titan complex beneath Undermine, securing Undermine as a location to visit for players, Undermins fitting the theme of the expansion, Gazlowe’s short story, etc.

There is room for Harronir vs Goblins because the Harronir represent life and (bad) Goblins represent pollution. However I don't think they are going to mix the themes regardless of how much a "pure" Rootlands would be similar to the Dream. If anything they will just go for a different "variety" of Life (jungle vs forest) and have it be smaller than 10.2.

Stop the Goblin incursion to the East (raid 2), then stop whatever is bothering the Rootlands to the west (megadungeon). Whatever happens there leads us to the world soul (maybe Elun'ahir going so deep means it is the "pathway" to Underground Silithus) where Ethereals are attacking (raid 3) for 11.2 and then it's Midnight time.

[milkmustache]

There’s three problems;

1. We just finished a patch dealing with protecting a tree and its roots from an enemy trying to destroy it.

2. A raid taking place in Undermine (or a Goblin raid in general) doesn’t match up with a patch dealing with trees and root lands.

3. If the problem is in the root lands, why would we travel to Undermine for the raid?

As for why would we go to Undermine;

Gallywix, Azerite, possible void creature beneath Undermine, possible Titan complex beneath Undermine, securing Undermine as a location to visit for players, Undermins fitting the theme of the expansion, Gazlowe’s short story, etc.

I think that Rootlands will be the one detached from the story, and Undermine will be the major patch content here. You're completely right, it'd be maybe too soon to have a major patch zone be a life based area that quickly.

I think it could very well be a Forbidden Reach/Time Rifts type with a megadungeon, because obviously Orwenya and the Harronir have a big role to play here, but I think it's more of a check to be cashed later.

Undermine, Azerite, Gallywix, maybe Ethereals, maybe Kaja'mite? Gallywix and Ethereals making some sort of trade deal, combining tech and pressing hard towards the world soul? Something like that. Undermine big is the point.

[Joshuaj]

And people like you are why wow went to crap

Why? Cause we're sick of the constant faction conflicts which usually end up going nowhere, to the point where even the faction leaders were getting tired of that crap in BFA?

- - - Updated - - -

I'm just saying, maybe catch up on the lore and play the game. Faction conflicts, or at least the BIG faction conflicts, are useless.

[milkmustache]

Stop the Goblin incursion to the East (raid 2), then stop whatever is bothering the Rootlands to the west (megadungeon). Whatever happens there leads us to the world soul (maybe Elun'ahir going so deep means it is the "pathway" to Underground Silithus) where Ethereals are attacking (raid 3) for 11.2 and then it's Midnight time.

Yea, this feels like it could be it. Whatever happens in the world soul, the Ethereals are doing something funky. I'm not convinced they win over the world soul just yet, but I'm very curious where the jump from worldsoul in Silithus to Sunwell in Quel'thalas comes in. Something Alleria related I assume.

[Joshuaj]

There’s three problems;

1. We just finished a patch dealing with protecting a tree and its roots from an enemy trying to destroy it.

2. A raid taking place in Undermine (or a Goblin raid in general) doesn’t match up with a patch dealing with trees and root lands.

3. If the problem is in the root lands, why would we travel to Undermine for the raid?

As for why would we go to Undermine;

Gallywix, Azerite, possible void creature beneath Undermine, possible Titan complex beneath Undermine, securing Undermine as a location to visit for players, Undermins fitting the theme of the expansion, Gazlowe’s short story, etc.

Ever thought that maybe the Undermine's our next megadungeon?

[Cheezits]

I think that Rootlands will be the one detached from the story, and Undermine will be the major patch content here. You're completely right, it'd be maybe too soon to have a major patch zone be a life based area that quickly.

The way that Orwenya is advertised in the trailer and the magic roots are not only hyped up ahead of time in Dragonflight, but also showcased in the trailer and in TWW launch (the roots are dipping into the old god blood) makes me think it will be directly related to the plot, maybe the place Xal goes to after Nerubar falls. Undermine will just be diversion patch.

[Sondrelk]

If what you said is true, then the most likely scenario is that there is no "undermine raid", but actually the 'goblin raid' datamined is just going to be an assault on the Venture Company's base within the Rootlands, instead of having us travel all the way through Azeroth to undermine for just a raid seemingly unrelated to the story being told.

Possibly. Though I think the developers are aware that players want Undermine. And if they get it in a raid then that is at least something.

That being said, it is definitely possible it will end up being another Motherlode situation. Where that dungeon was originally called Undermine, until it got renamed to Motherlode seemingly just to placate players who couldn't accept that Undermine was "wasted".

[Cheezits]

Yea, this feels like it could be it. Whatever happens in the world soul, the Ethereals are doing something funky. I'm not convinced they win over the world soul just yet, but I'm very curious where the jump from worldsoul in Silithus to Sunwell in Quel'thalas comes in. Something Alleria related I assume.

I am convinced that TWW's final raid ends in Alleria either being corrupted or possessed (fully or halfway) by Xal, which somehow makes it easier for her to go after the Sunwell. I assume the "win" in the raid is that we defend the core but Alleria's fall is the "failure" that leads to Quel'thalas being attacked.

Alleria being turned into a temporary antagonist means the Windrunner hot potato can be thrown to Vereesa, which is why she is forcibly absent from this expansion (she will be spammed in the next one). It also parallels Sylvanas in a variety of ways AND gives Sylvanas potential to cameo to save her sis.

[Teriz]

There is room for Harronir vs Goblins because the Harronir represent life and (bad) Goblins represent pollution. However I don't think they are going to mix the themes regardless of how much a "pure" Rootlands would be similar to the Dream. If anything they will just go for a different "variety" of Life (jungle vs forest) and have it be smaller than 10.2.

Stop the Goblin incursion to the East (raid 2), then stop whatever is bothering the Rootlands to the west (megadungeon). Whatever happens there leads us to the world soul (maybe Elun'ahir going so deep means it is the "pathway" to Underground Silithus) where Ethereals are attacking (raid 3) for 11.2 and then it's Midnight time.

The problem though is that the raid is literally called "Goblinraid". That means the setting itself is Goblin-based. If the setting was the Rootlands, it would be called something more relative to Rootlands. I can't think of a single raid in recent years that wasn't directly related to the setting of the patch it was in.

[Ielenia]

Possibly. Though I think the developers are aware that players want Undermine. And if they get it in a raid then that is at least something.

I'm not denying that there are some players that want to see it, but I think it has to be make sense for the story. I mean, TWW is located way south on the map, between Tanaris and Pandaria, and is far, far away from where undermine is. Like, almost half a world away. I don't see why we would have to go that far for a single raid, then return.

[Cheezits]

Also a GREAT discovery and theory by Portergauge- the exploration achievement category for TWW is not called Khaz Algar, but War Within.

So at least one of the zones that is EXPLORABLE will likely be on another continent. This could be Undermine (Kezan) and/or Underground Silithus (Kalimdor). Hopefully both. Hell, it COULD be Karesh, but again I think that is in Midnight.

https://twitter.com/Portergauge/stat...23474636902888

[Teriz]

There is supposedly a tunnel somewhere that goes straight to Undermine confirmed by some Goblin somewhere.
You probably could argue that the tunnel takes you to the Undermine zone, I think it's more likely the tunnel will be the raid entrance.

Uh, why wouldn't it simply take you to Undermine?

Making a Rootlands raid might be derivative of the Emerald Dream patch and raid, and while an Undermine zone might be possible, I think it's more likely it will be more like Mechagon.

But Mechagon wasn't a raid, it was a mega-dungeon. Whatever this goblinraid is, it's a raid. And once again, raids typically follow the thematics of the patch of their release closely. For example, we got a Neltharion's black dragon laboratory raid in 10.1 because the patch was about black dragons. We got a raid where we protect the Emerald Dream and the new world tree in a patch about the World tree and the Emerald Dream. If we're getting a Goblin raid, we're getting a Goblin patch.

Also, I want to stress that I don't necessarily think this is the best idea in terms of showing off Undermine. Just the most likely option given what we are currently seeing in regards to hints, and how we are likely only getting two major patches, where one is almost certainly Rootlands.

Well if you don't think it's a good idea, why would you believe that Blizzard would think that it's a good idea?

[micwini]

Also a GREAT discovery and theory by Portergauge- the exploration achievement category for TWW is not called Khaz Algar, but War Within.

So at least one of the zones that is EXPLORABLE will likely be on another continent. This could be Undermine (Kezan) and/or Underground Silithus (Kalimdor). Hopefully both. Hell, it COULD be Karesh, but again I think that is in Midnight.

https://twitter.com/Portergauge/stat...23474636902888

Outland -> Isle of quel danas. Pandaria -> siege. Dragon isles -> emerald dream.
Im not saying we're not going somewhere else, but this theory is weak af.

[Cheezits]

Outland -> Isle of quel danas. Pandaria -> siege. Dragon isles -> emerald dream.
Im not saying we're not going somewhere else, but this theory is weak af.

Siege wasn't an explorable area and the Dream was localized on a part of the Dragon Isles (and is a part of the map there). You have a point with Quel Danas though.

[Sondrelk]

The problem though is that the raid is literally called "Goblinraid". That means the setting itself is Goblin-based. If the setting was the Rootlands, it would be called something more relative to Rootlands. I can't think of a single raid in recent years that wasn't directly related to the setting of the patch it was in.

The Emerald Dream raid is heavily themed after the Firelands for one. A Rootlands invaded by Goblins leading to a Goblin raid doesn't seem far fetched at all.

[micwini]

Siege wasn't an explorable area and the Dream was localized on a part of the Dragon Isles (and is a part of the map there). You have a point with Quel Danas though.

I mean qualdanas wasnt part of the outland explorer one, but just to say that just because it is called this way, doesnt mean anything
Could all be underground except for the last raid or something.

[Sondrelk]

Also a GREAT discovery and theory by Portergauge- the exploration achievement category for TWW is not called Khaz Algar, but War Within.

So at least one of the zones that is EXPLORABLE will likely be on another continent. This could be Undermine (Kezan) and/or Underground Silithus (Kalimdor). Hopefully both. Hell, it COULD be Karesh, but again I think that is in Midnight.

https://twitter.com/Portergauge/stat...23474636902888

Personal guess is Silithus underground.
You could make it accessible via airship from Hallowfall across the underground sea, leading to whatever ruins are underneath the deserts of Silithus.