Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

I mean qualdanas wasnt part of the outland explorer one, but just to say that just because it is called this way, doesnt mean anything
Could all be underground except for the last raid or something.

It's not a hard rule but I think it's more of a hint, because like BFA and Legion it just condenses multiple worldly areas into one expansion name.

I'm just excited because of the implication that Silithus Depths and/or Undermine will be more than just a raid. And it's not just Rootlands (which would likely be considered Khaz Algar)

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Personal guess is Silithus underground.
You could make it accessible via airship from Hallowfall across the underground sea, leading to whatever ruins are underneath the deserts of Silithus.

The Undersea could also lead to Undermine, per the naming convention (I think the "Undersea" idea started in Legion and has been slowly hinted since, but Undermine came first)

[Sondrelk]

I'm not denying that there are some players that want to see it, but I think it has to be make sense for the story. I mean, TWW is located way south on the map, between Tanaris and Pandaria, and is far, far away from where undermine is. Like, almost half a world away. I don't see why we would have to go that far for a single raid, then return.

Because then the developers can announce we are going to Undermine for a raid.
They are clearly setting up Goblins to play a major role in TWW, so combined with the Goblinraid items I think we can all agree a Goblin themed raid is almost guaranteed. The only question is what shape it will take, and my guess is Rootlands invaded by Goblins. It's immediately relevant to where we are. It's easy to conceptualize in a cool way. And it would give us the excuse to travel to Undermine to stop them.

It's obviously not the perfect setup. But assuming we only get two major patches and that one of them are the Rootlands I would put money more so on Undermine being an instance compared to a zone in 11.2.

[micwini]

Hope rootlands is just minor patch zone (forbidden reach) would be dumb to have another dull zone like that.

[Sondrelk]

The Undersea could also lead to Undermine, per the naming convention (I think the "Undersea" idea started in Legion and has been slowly hinted since, but Undermine came first)

Venture Co. Is already started to have dug all the way from Undermine I believe, so going over the sea would be unnecessary.

[milkmustache]

The way that Orwenya is advertised in the trailer and the magic roots are not only hyped up ahead of time in Dragonflight, but also showcased in the trailer and in TWW launch (the roots are dipping into the old god blood) makes me think it will be directly related to the plot, maybe the place Xal goes to after Nerubar falls. Undermine will just be diversion patch.

You're right, maybe I spoke incorrectly. I think they'll be directly related, but I don't think they'll get their payoff i.e, Earthen uniting their divisions, Nerubians regaining their Kingdom, etc etc whatever may happen. I think the Harronir will help us and become a part of the story to have their larger part paid off in Midnight or TLT.

I'm basing this off of the assumption that the idea of Elun'ahir is going to play a massive role in the Titan conspiracy in TLT, which makes it feel like a builder in this expansion. So maybe a small Rootlands zone for a .5 patch to bolster that lore, bring in Harronir AR, then more to be revealed on the detaisl of that in later expansions.

[Teriz]

The Emerald Dream raid is heavily themed after the Firelands for one. A Rootlands invaded by Goblins leading to a Goblin raid doesn't seem far fetched at all.

Yeah but it was still an Emerald Dream/World Tree raid, and I don't remember the raid being datamined as a "Firelands" or "Firedragon" raid. We knew that we were in the Emerald Dream protecting the world tree.

A raid where we're defending roots from Goblins wouldn't be called a Goblin raid.

[Sondrelk]

Hope rootlands is just minor patch zone (forbidden reach) would be dumb to have another dull zone like that.

If it's just Rootlands, sure. But I have faith in a zone absolutely infested with Goblin machinery. Giant saws the size of houses, and earth moving equipment the size of cathedrals. That's an aesthetic I don't think we have really had since EK and Kalimdor.

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Yeah but it was still an Emerald Dream/World Tree raid, and I don't remember the raid being datamined as a "Firelands" or "Firedragon" raid. We knew that we were in the Emerald Dream protecting the world tree.

A raid where we're defending roots from Goblins wouldn't be called a Goblin raid.

Which is why we would then go to the Undermine to stop them.

We push the Goblins back to their tunnel. Someone says we need to follow them back and kill Gallywix to actually stop them. Queue the raid.

[Teriz]

Which is why we would then go to the Undermine to stop them.

We push the Goblins back to their tunnel. Someone says we need to follow them back and kill Gallywix to actually stop them. Queue the raid.

Okay, so again, WHY would we need to go to Undermine to stop them from what they're doing in Rootlands half a world away? If they're gone from the Rootlands, why do we need to hop in a boom tube to the other side of the ocean to take on an entire city full of hostile Goblins? Wouldn't it make more narrative sense to close out the Rootlands story in 11.05, and THEN take a tunnel to Undermine in 11.1 to see what's happening in that city, gain allies in that city (with the help of Gazlowe and Marin), and THEN take on Gallywix in a raid?

[Cheezits]

My personal theory on patch spread, major features, and map locations.

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Which is why we would then go to the Undermine to stop them.

We push the Goblins back to their tunnel. Someone says we need to follow them back and kill Gallywix to actually stop them. Queue the raid.

Goblins are all on the other side of the map.

[micwini]

My personal theory on patch spread, major features, and map locations.

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Goblins are all on the other side of the map.

went off the rails after 11.1. Undermine for new brawlers guild? Makes sense. Also cuz faction neutral hub then

[Sondrelk]

Okay, so again, WHY would we need to go to Undermine to stop them from what they're doing in Rootlands half a world away? If they're gone from the Rootlands, why do we need to hop in a boom tube to the other side of the ocean to take on an entire city full of hostile Goblins? Wouldn't it make more narrative sense to close out the Rootlands story in 11.05, and THEN take a tunnel to Undermine in 11.1 to see what's happening in that city, gain allies in that city (with the help of Gazlowe and Marin), and THEN take on Gallywix in a raid?

I am not going to say it doesn't make sense. Just remember that 10.0.5 was only really possible because they had the zone from the Dracthyr opening. There isn't really any indication the Rootlands are similarly partially made.

Undermine as a raid is very simply my belief based on the idea that I don't think a pure Undermine zone is likely for the reasons of it being far away like you said. And also that I very much believe the developers want to go to Undermine at some point based on the large amounts of Goblin stuff present.

If there is any indication that Rootlands is either 11.0.5 or 11.2 then I will probably change my mind. Though I think those two options unlikely. 11.0.5 because it seems like a lot of effort for a minor patch. And 11.2 because it seems like a big diversion from the main storyline with Xal'atath.

[milkmustache]

My personal theory on patch spread, major features, and map locations.

Brawler's Guild being based in Undermine is a great call. A more neutral area (yes, Goblins are Horde I know, but traditionally have neutral factions) reduces the workload for Blizz. Add this in with some of the possibly dyeable items that have been datamined, I wonder if we see a more customizable brawler's guild of sorts.

[Sondrelk]

Goblins are all on the other side of the map.

Sure, but we also know they have that tunnel somewhere taking them directly back and forth. So where precisely that tunnel ended up doesn't change much.

[Cheezits]

As @milkmustache mentioned, the Rootlands stuff is tied more to an overarching saga plot (Titans vs World Soul), similar to how Hallowsfall is all about a FUTURE expansion saga all together (Light and Arathi). So I think that may lead to that content being smaller overall. It doesn't look like Arathi are getting any continuation unless they throw us a curveball with Beledar being what the Ethereals go after.

Goblins are only linked through the expansion theme (Underground) and Ethereals are doing a HFC/Legion kind of thing, so they take priority.

[Teriz]

My personal theory on patch spread, major features, and map locations.

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The only thing I disagree with is Rootlands being 11.1.5. I believe it's patch 11.0.5 due to its proximity to where we start in 11.0. In addition, from that we can get foreshadowing about Undermine which leads us to 11.1.

In addition, that lists of continents is quite interesting because the only known underground continent/location that's on the same standing as Broken Isles, Pandaria, Outland, Northrend, etc. is Undermine.

Goblins are all on the other side of the map.

That too.

[Cheezits]

Brawler's Guild being based in Undermine is a great call. A more neutral area (yes, Goblins are Horde I know, but traditionally have neutral factions) reduces the workload for Blizz. Add this in with some of the possibly dyeable items that have been datamined, I wonder if we see a more customizable brawler's guild of sorts.

While it is very very doubtful, the first possible "housing" items (dyeable furniture) being Goblin also could mean that housing is introduced in Undermine. Which fits the commercial theme. It also would be the most logical place to have an apartment for small instanced housing.

[Raetary]

There is no setup for a Goblin/Harronir conflict.

The Roots are tied to the black blood, as they are covered in it.
Plot will likely involve the Blood going active and Xal pushing its corruption onto it.

[Teriz]

I am not going to say it doesn't make sense. Just remember that 10.0.5 was only really possible because they had the zone from the Dracthyr opening. There isn't really any indication the Rootlands are similarly partially made.

Undermine as a raid is very simply my belief based on the idea that I don't think a pure Undermine zone is likely for the reasons of it being far away like you said. And also that I very much believe the developers want to go to Undermine at some point based on the large amounts of Goblin stuff present.

If there is any indication that Rootlands is either 11.0.5 or 11.2 then I will probably change my mind. Though I think those two options unlikely. 11.0.5 because it seems like a lot of effort for a minor patch. And 11.2 because it seems like a big diversion from the main storyline with Xal'atath.

Yeah, another issue I see with that theory is that I don't think the developers want to turn Undermine into a glorified Gnomeregan. I believe they want Undermine in the game as a hub for us to visit after this expansion is over, because they've wanted it in the game since vanilla.

While it is very very doubtful, the first possible "housing" items (dyeable furniture) being Goblin also could mean that housing is introduced in Undermine. Which fits the commercial theme. It also would be the most logical place to have an apartment for small instanced housing.

And yet more reasons why Undermine simply being a raid would make zero sense.

[milkmustache]

And yet more reasons why Undermine simply being a raid would make zero sense.

Undermine being anything short of a zone would be a massive mistake. This is a great opportunity for Blizz to go all in on a specific aesthetic, have fun, and have a ton of goblin resources for a future revamp. If things like Argus or Nazjatar get relegated to a single patch zone because of fear of visual fatigue, then I don't see any problem with having a patch in Undermine.

The new Khaz Algar zones seem to be good at fleshing out the zone to be more than a single vibe as well, so I have confidence they'd do it well.

[Ielenia]

Because then the developers can announce we are going to Undermine for a raid.

Yes, and they can also announce we're going to a whole different planet altogether for groceries. The point I'm trying to make here is that undermine as a raid makes no sense because it's unrelated to the story being told. We're focusing our efforts in Khaz'Algar, and it makes no sense to suddenly go almost across half the planet to raid undermine... just because goblins.

They are clearly setting up Goblins to play a major role in TWW,

Are they? Admittedly I'm not following all the news too closely, so unless I'm missing something, all this 'setting up' is just a short story in WoW's website about an event that is wholly unrelated to the TWW's arc.

I think we can all agree a Goblin themed raid is almost guaranteed. The only question is what shape it will take, and my guess is Rootlands invaded by Goblins. It's immediately relevant to where we are. It's easy to conceptualize in a cool way. And it would give us the excuse to travel to Undermine to stop them.

I'm not questioning that. I'm questioning this immediate assumption that this 'goblin raid' is going to happen in undermine of all places, instead of the more obvious location, which is within Khaz'Algar's borders with the goblins (likely the Venture Company) setting up a base of operations there.