Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nightshade711]

+Undermine hinted at in DR
+"Goblinraid" datamine
+Goblins from Undermine in Khaz Algar
+Undermine connected to Khaz Algar
+Gazlowe as a major character in TWW

Uh-huh.
You mean the 'goblinraid' datamined which could just be a single raid boss. (Given the 'etherealraid' item being linked to the ethereal boss)

You're free to ignore the evidence if you want, but those items are quite a bit more substantial than some map files and textures.

Merely an opinion. Map files & textures are pretty solid confirmation that it is coming.
We have no solid confirmation of undermine, merely just a bunch of very minor circumstantial things.

[Ielenia]

No lol not really. You seriously don't think that quest was written with the absolute intention of being foreshadowing for Zaralek?

It doesn't matter what the intentions of the developers were when they wrote the test in those quests. What matters is what we, as players, perceived at the time. And, at the time, that didn't allude to anything "below the ground of the Dragon Isles" as it could easily just have been a cavern holding a slumbering monster.

I do grant the centaurs talking about 'whispers from below' do allude to something underground, but the explorers' excavation in the Azure Span don't really do it.

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That's called asking for evidence dude.

But the "evidence" you were asking in that question have no bearing to the other poster's claim that the Rootlands could be a mid-expansion patch location. Asking for the actual size of the location has no bearing in the possibility of it being a new patch location, as Blizzard can make it as big as they want it to be.

Those Goblins in Khaz Algar gave the reason already, and its not to plunder an ancient world tree.

Who said they're not? And even if that isn't their original intention, who's to say they won't find something during their excavations that will shift their priorities to the Rootlands?

Probably because we've already been to the Firelands.

So? We've been to the Emerald Dream countless times. Two of those times was in two separate raids.

Thanks for your opinion, but you asked for evidence that Undermine would be large enough to hold a patch and a raid. There's your evidence. In terms of dev history and lore, Undermine is large enough.

Or, maybe the fact it isn't, despite these alleged claims, is evidence that despite the developers' intentions, undermine just isn't all that good for a whole zone?

You forgot the third (most likely) option; It's entirely a figment of your imagination.

Like you said:

Thanks for your opinion

Not to mention you what you wrote in nothing counters the ideas I presented.

[Khaza-R]

Goblins are one of the least interesting races in WoW to me so a patch and a raid around them kills a lot of hype for me. Really hope they can make it interesting.

I have a feeling we're just going to get a life enemy invading Undermine. But personally I would rather see something like Gallywix making deals with some of the scummiest beings in the universe and turning Undermine into a Mos Eisley of interdimensional beings. Ethereals, brokers and other thugs taking over the city. Maybe we could finally revisit Ven'ari again.

[Ielenia]

You mean this;



Hey if you have a datafile that literally says "11.1 Rootlands" like that file did, I'll go along with everything you're saying.

You do realize you just proved his point, right?

[Teriz]

You do realize you just proved his point, right?

Where is Rootlands attached to 11.1?

[Treegdar]

It doesn't matter what the intentions of the developers were when they wrote the test in those quests. What matters is what we, as players, perceived at the time. And, at the time, that didn't allude to anything "below the ground of the Dragon Isles" as it could easily just have been a cavern holding a slumbering monster.

I love MMOC. The only place where direct forshadowing confirmed with hindsight can be denied just because lol.

[Teriz]

But the "evidence" you were asking in that question have no bearing to the other poster's claim that the Rootlands could be a mid-expansion patch location. Asking for the actual size of the location has no bearing in the possibility of it being a new patch location, as Blizzard can make it as big as they want it to be.

I was asking for ANY evidence. Some indications of the size of the Rootlands would be an example of such evidence.

Who said they're not? And even if that isn't their original intention, who's to say they won't find something during their excavations that will shift their priorities to the Rootlands?

Because a single glance at the actual quest line talking about them makes it rather clear that that's not the case.

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I love MMOC. The only place where direct forshadowing confirmed with hindsight can be denied just because lol.

He tends to do that.

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Uh-huh.
You mean the 'goblinraid' datamined which could just be a single raid boss. (Given the 'etherealraid' item being linked to the ethereal boss)

Considering all the other mitigating factors alongside the simple fact that Undermine is a well-known underground location and a good way to get some Horde lore into TWW, I find it doubtful that its only going to be a raid involving a single Goblin raid boss.

[milkmustache]

But personally I would rather see something like Gallywix making deals with some of the scummiest beings in the universe and turning Undermine into a Mos Eisley of interdimensional beings. Ethereals, brokers and other thugs taking over the city. Maybe we could finally revisit Ven'ari again.

This is what I feel holds some weight in a usage of Undermine. I think showing up and it just being rootin tootin goblin fun would be to disconnected, so I heavily expect to see some Ethereals and possibly Brokers involved.

I think "Life enemy invading Undermine" feels a bit more unlikely. If it'll be any version of that, it'll be Xal'atath-aligned goblins tearing apart the roots for black blood. But at that rate, if we were to have an enemy goblin faction used just to be featured in a zone unrelated to their well known underground city, then why use goblins at all? It's all very interesting.

Which let's remind ourselves, this is all speculation. It's supposed to be fun.

[Ielenia]

I love MMOC. The only place where direct forshadowing confirmed with hindsight can be denied just because lol.

Something apparently being on the other side of a cave entrance high on a mountain is an allusion to something deep below the ground. That is the hill you're going to die on?

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I was asking for ANY evidence. Some indications of the size of the Rootlands would be an example of such evidence.

And I've explained how the size of the Rootlands is irrelevant.

Because a single glance at the actual quest line talking about them makes it rather clear that that's not the case.

Oh? Are you saying you know what the goblins will find during their excavation? Keep in mind I'm not asking if you know what the goblins THINK they'll find. I'm asking if you know what they'll ACTUALLY find.

[Hitei]

I do enjoy that Teriz' damage control has gone from "Nerubians are totally minor but maybe they could get a raid or something in an Undermine expansion; all the evidence says they want Undermine to be a continent; there's no way Undermine could just be a single zone or raid!" to desperately trying to frame Undermine as side story patch zone as major while still insisting larger plot points like whatever is happening with the roots are secondary to random goblin crap.

[Teriz]

And I've explained how the size of the Rootlands is irrelevant.

Well thanks, but that wasn’t the point.

Oh? Are you saying you know what the goblins will find during their excavation? Keep in mind I'm not asking if you know what the goblins THINK they'll find. I'm asking if you know what they'll ACTUALLY find.

They’re not in Rootlands to find anything there, they’re not talking about going to Rootlands, and the Goblins in Azj Khenet are actually settled there. And yes, they’re Venture Co. Goblins from Undermine.

[Viridiel]

I was asking for ANY evidence. Some indications of the size of the Rootlands would be an example of such evidence.

Is this enough?



It's painted directly onto the development map. It's the only source we have for the term "Rootlands" outside of the texture names. It's the same size as the Ringing Deeps and definitely comparable to other patch zones. It's also absolutely a placeholder name considering all of the others are using placeholder names.

[Teriz]

I do enjoy that Teriz' damage control has gone from "Nerubians are totally minor but maybe they could get a raid or something in an Undermine expansion; all the evidence says they want Undermine to be a continent; there's no way Undermine could just be a single zone or raid!" to desperately trying to frame Undermine as side story patch zone as major while still insisting larger plot points like whatever is happening with the roots are secondary to random goblin crap.

Uh I’m still saying that Undermine is going to be a single zone or a raid. And yes, Undermine in 11.1 could be as consequential to the overall story of TWW as Zalarek Caverns was to the overall story of Dragonflight in 10.1.

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Is this enough?

Yes! Thank you, that’s quite helpful.

Looks like 11.0.5 material, as I suspected.

[Hitei]

Uh I’m still saying that Undermine is going to be a single zone or a raid. And yes, Undermine in 11.1 could be as consequential to the overall story of TWW as Zalarek Caverns was to the overall story of Dragonflight in 10.1.

No, bud. You spent months insisting that Undermine wasn't going to just be a single zone or raid, because it was "too important" and "they planned it as a continent in Vanilla!" And that Undermine would have to be the central hub and focus of an underground expansion.

[Nightshade711]

Is this enough?



It's painted directly onto the development map. It's the only source we have for the term "Rootlands" outside of the texture names. It's the same size as the Ringing Deeps and definitely comparable to other patch zones. It's also absolutely a placeholder name considering all of the others are using placeholder names.

Oh nice. Definitely seems the size for a major patch zone imo.
The textures have me curious, it seems like a lush cave kind of setup which could definitely be interesting if done right.

[Teriz]

No, bud. You spent months insisting that Undermine wasn't going to just be a single zone or raid, because it was "too important" and "they planned it as a continent in Vanilla!" And that Undermine would have to be the central hub and focus of an underground expansion.

Yeah, typo. I meant to say that I still DON’T believe that Undermine will be a single zone or raid.

[Treegdar]

Something apparently being on the other side of a cave entrance high on a mountain is an allusion to something deep below the ground. That is the hill you're going to die on?

Hill to die on? Youre kidding me. Again its CONFIRMED THIS IS WHAT WAS BEING HINTED AT. Just because you were to stupid to connect the dots at the time lol.

[Hitei]

Yeah, typo. I meant to say that I still DON’T believe that Undermine will be a single zone or raid.

And your Zaralek comparison here is what, that Zaralek is actually 4 different zones because there's different sections of it?

[Teriz]

And your Zaralek comparison here is what, that Zaralek is actually 4 different zones because there's different sections of it?

Simply because Zalarek wasn’t divided into individual zones doesn’t mean that Undermine wouldn’t be. Especially if it’s as large as Zalarek (about the size of Azure Span).

[Nightshade711]

The 20.x patches & expansion speculation thread:
"Undermine is coming guys I swear it is the most likely option."