Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Teriz]

Is this the case though. Because they seem to be roughly the same distance to Dorn.

That's interesting. I wonder if we'll see the underwater tunnels of Undermine that were described in the RPG books;

The main centers of population in Undermine are in volcanic caverns beneath Kezan. Secondary island caverns exist farther away, and the goblins have constructed tunnels of thick glass that lead to these smaller areas. Passing through these tubes means walking along the ocean's floor and looking out to see the colorful fish and hungry sharks nearby

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Undermine

They could also do a slightly longer tran system like the one that connects Ironforge to Stormwind.

[Nightshade711]

They called it a new zone on the roadmap and when they announced it.

Factually incorrect.

As I said, the roadmap says “return to the forbidden reach”
Not “new zone: forbidden reach”

[Alanar]

they pick races where they can reuse existing skeletons and that also make "sense" for the context of the new expansion. Ogres, nagas, arrakoas, sethrak etc all require a new skeleton

How is that a bad thing tho? this is what most people want when asking for a NEW race. Races such as Ogres or Vrykul have their own model, people like them for that.
Imagine, the new moonkin model into an updated Ogre model. These things are plausible and frankly way more exciting then say a reskin of a dwarf we already have two off. Sure, theme and all that, but imo they took the most boring option, which is on the same level of diaper gnomes.

[Teriz]

Factually incorrect.
As I said, the roadmap says “return to the forbidden reach”
Not “new zone: forbidden reach”

You didn't get the memo;

[Ersula]

I wouldn't hold them to that image being canon....why is there a loading screen connecting Veldrakken & Khaz Algar at all?

Except the Goblin Raid and a tunnel that leads to Undermine from Khaz Algar which Goblins have apparently been using for years.

Wait, do they literally say there is a tunnel going all the way from Undermine to Khaz Algar? I was under the, more realistic, impression they came here in boats or submarines & drilled in from underwater. Considering how long that tunnel would be I would have to assume wherever it comes out in Khaz Algar has an entire civilization of Goblins.

In that case I can see a deeper Khaz Algar zone being added where the tunnel comes out that is populated with Goblins while the Goblin capital of Undermine being the raid. The closest real life analog is the UK - France chunnel tunnel so you know that that means: Train raid. Raid on a train.

[Nightshade711]

You didn't get the memo;

The roadmap I posted was the original, that one came after. (Hince why the “now live” is listed under Fractures in Time)

When it was announced, it was never announced as a new zone.
Try again.

[Alanar]

still waiting for gilgoblin customization options

I am not into those, but i think it would be fine as a customization option.

[Ersula]

The roadmap I posted was the original, that one came after. (Hince why the “now live” is listed under Fractures in Time)

When it was announced, it was never announced as a new zone.

Because it wasn't a new zone. We knew about the Forgotten Reach since the alpha.

You guys are arguing semantics so much you've lost the plot: The point is TWW doesn't have an equivalent unused zone at launch & 11.0.5 on the roadmap doesn't refer to anything resembling a new zone. So if we get a new zone, it'll be paired with the second raid. This topic is settled.

[Teriz]

I wouldn't hold them to that image being canon....why is there a loading screen connecting Veldrakken & Khaz Algar at all?Wait, do they literally say there is a tunnel going all the way from Undermine to Khaz Algar? I was under the, more realistic, impression they came here in boats or submarines & drilled in from underwater. Considering how long that tunnel would be I would have to assume wherever it comes out in Khaz Algar has an entire civilization of Goblins.

In that case I can see a deeper Khaz Algar zone being added where the tunnel comes out that is populated with Goblins while the Goblin capital of Undermine being the raid. The closest real life analog is the UK - France chunnel tunnel so you know that that means: Train raid. Raid on a train.

Again, I seriously doubt Blizzard is going to make Undermine into a glorified Gnomeregan. The main case being that Blizzard could put stuff like inns, auction houses, flight paths, the Brawler's Guild, race tracks, etc. in an Undermine zone, and still have a raid within the city.

- - - Updated - - -

The roadmap I posted was the original, that one came after. (Hince why the “now live” is listed under Fractures in Time)

When it was announced, it was never announced as a new zone.
Try again.

So now we've devolved to "My roadmap is better than yours because (insert reason)!"

Like I said, it was labeled as a New Zone on Blizzard's roadmap, and that was clearly the case. Whatever silly spin you want to put on that fact is your business, but Blizzard DID label Forbidden Reach as a new zone on their roadmap.

- - - Updated - - -

Because it wasn't a new zone. We knew about the Forgotten Reach since the alpha.

You guys are arguing semantics so much you've lost the plot: The point is TWW doesn't have an equivalent unused zone at launch & 11.0.5 on the roadmap doesn't refer to anything resembling a new zone. So if we get a new zone, it'll be paired with the second raid. This topic is settled.

We got a new zone in 10.0.7 and it wasn't paired with a new raid.

In addition, the Harronir are in the announcement trailer, which indicates that they're pre-11.1 content.

[Nightshade711]

Again, I seriously doubt Blizzard is going to make Undermine into a glorified Gnomeregan.

I definitely see it being a megadungeon. They’ve done so with other previous heavy-hitters.

Maybe after the rootlands raid we return to Kezan in 11.1.5/7 & they’d use the already present entrance to Undermine as the megadungeon entrance.

So now we've devolved to "My roadmap is better than yours because (insert reason)!"

Who said it was my roadmap? I don’t work for blizzard.

Like I said, it was labeled as a New Zone on Blizzard's roadmap, and that was clearly the case. Whatever silly spin you want to put on that fact is your business, but Blizzard DID label Forbidden Reach as a new zone on their roadmap.

After the fact at best.

And it is just a plain fact it wasn’t a new zone. It is like claiming Gilneas was a new zone because we had a reclamation storyline.

[Ersula]

We got a new zone in 10.0.7 and it wasn't paired with a new raid.

Except it wasn't really a new zone. Forgotten reach was in at launch at as the Drakthyr starting zone. 1.)The War Within doesn't have an equivalent unused launch zone, and 2.) the 2024 roadmap includes the first post launch patch & doesn't refer to including a new zone. Your points are contradicting each other & we just spent 5 pages trying to explain that to you.

[Nightshade711]

Except it wasn't really a new zone. Forgotten reach was in at launch at as the Drakthyr starting zone. 1.)The War Within doesn't have an equivalent unused launch zone, and 2.) the 2024 roadmap includes the first post launch patch & doesn't refer to including a new zone. Your points are contradicting each other & we just spent 5 pages trying to explain that to you.

Also not to mention, the rootlands is supposedly about the size of the ringing deeps.

The forbidden reach was such a small island and nowhere near the size of any of the patch/primary continent zones.
Would be weird for them to introduce such a large, major patch sized zone for a .5 or .7 patch.

[Teriz]

Who said it was my roadmap? I don’t work for blizzard.

You're attempting to argue that one roadmap is more valid than another when they're both roadmaps from Blizzard.

After the fact at best.

And it is just a plain fact it wasn’t a new zone.

And yet the fact remains that Blizzard called it a new zone on their roadmap.

- - - Updated - - -

Except it wasn't really a new zone.

Blizzard disagrees.

[Ielenia]

Which is their capital and main city which houses the trade princes and the main hubs for their cartels. Again, if you have an underground capital, you tend to be an underground race.

No, that's just your headcanon. There is no lore that states the goblins are an underground race. If goblins were supposed to be an underground race, then their culture, architecture, etc, would reflect that, but none of that do. Dwarves are an actual representation of an underground race as even their buildings on the surface are built down into the ground, or into the sides of mountains. They tend to build down, not up. Y'know, like races used to being underground tend to do?

Goblins do not display this behavior. In fact, not only none of their settlements are underground, but they're all put in big, wide clearings.

[Nightshade711]

And yet the fact remains that Blizzard called it a new zone on their roadmap.

Fact remains that it wasn’t an actual new zone. Again it is like saying Gilneas was a new zone because it had a questline and some new NPCs

Also the same roadmap where they called augmentation a support spec when it is a DPS.

Regardless, doesn’t change the fact that the zone was so small and nearly inconsequential, it would never qualify for a full patch zone.
Compared to the rootlands which is supposed to be the size of a full zone. (Even Zaralek wasn’t even the size of the azure apan.

- - - Updated - - -

No, that's just your headcanon. There is no lore that states the goblins are an underground race. If goblins were supposed to be an underground race, then their culture, architecture, etc, would reflect that, but none of that do. Dwarves are an actual representation of an underground race as even their buildings on the surface are built down into the ground, or into the sides of mountains. They tend to build down, not up. Y'know, like races used to being underground tend to do?

Goblins do not display this behavior. In fact, not only none of their settlements are underground, but they're all put in big, wide clearings.

Isn’t their starting zone very decidedly above-ground too?
Weird that their playable introduction barely touched the underground when they’re an “underground race”

[Timester]

Which is their capital and main city which houses the trade princes and the main hubs for their cartels. Again, if you have an underground capital, you tend to be an underground race.

The goblin starting zone is literally a surface city with highways. The only thing that connects goblins to have an underground capital is the fact they called it "Undermine". There are no other goblin lore saying that goblins are an underground race, quite the opposite.

[Teriz]

No, that's just your headcanon. There is no lore that states the goblins are an underground race.

Wouldn't the lore around Undermine being the capital of the Goblin race be an example of lore that states that Goblins are an underground race?

Goblins do not display this behavior. In fact, not only none of their settlements are underground, but they're all put in big, wide clearings.

Undermine is their main settlement and the core of their civilization, and its underground.

- - - Updated - - -

The goblin starting zone is literally a surface city with highways. The only thing that connects goblins to have an underground capital is the fact they called it "Undermine". There are no other goblin lore saying that goblins are an underground race, quite the opposite.

That would be because Blizzard has a rather long developmental history of being unable to create Undermine as they envisioned it. Undermine was slated to be in vanilla, but it was scrapped due to cost concerns, and obviously they weren't going to build an entire underground goblin city for a racial starter zone in Cataclysm.

In short, Undermine was to be implemented long before Kezan was.

[Timester]

No, that's just your headcanon. There is no lore that states the goblins are an underground race. If goblins were supposed to be an underground race, then their culture, architecture, etc, would reflect that, but none of that do. Dwarves are an actual representation of an underground race as even their buildings on the surface are built down into the ground, or into the sides of mountains. They tend to build down, not up. Y'know, like races used to being underground tend to do?

Goblins do not display this behavior. In fact, not only none of their settlements are underground, but they're all put in big, wide clearings.

Exactly.

We have the game itself to support it. Motherload dungeon, the motherload of Azerite ore, is a surface dungeon on Kezan. The two times we have Kezan in-game and they are both clearly surface, with skyscrappers and highways.

[Nightshade711]

Exactly.

We have the game itself to support it. Motherload dungeon, the motherload of Azerite ore, is a surface dungeon on Kezan. The two times we have Kezan in-game and they are both clearly surface, with skyscrappers and highways.

I forgot about the motherlode too.

I think that lends more to the possibility that we’d return to the goblin starting zone version of Kezan (using updated the updated models) for a minor patch story like Gilneas.
I could see it being a follow-up for Gazlowe to the possible Venture Co. Story/raid in the rootlands.

[Teriz]

Fact remains that it wasn’t an actual new zone. Again it is like saying Gilneas was a new zone because it had a questline and some new NPCs

The fact remains that we have an official Blizzard road map where it says we got a new zone in 10.0.7.

I mean, why even argue against that fact?